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dustymedic
Contributing Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 2562
Location: Columbus,OH-IO!
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 Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 20:21 Post subject: Apartment Fire burns while firefighters wait for electric co |
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10tv.com
photos and videos on link....
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BLACKLICK, Ohio — Firefighters said an electrical problem sparked a fire that damaged several apartments on Wednesday.
Two men painting at the Village at Wagner Apartments, located on Grey Field Drive, noticed the fire at about 6 p.m., 10TV's Lindsey Seavert reported.
"When we pulled up they had the fire underneath the electrical box, it started seeping up the side of the building and it just engulfed her whole apartment," Timmy Frye. "We banged on all the windows and tried to get them out."
Firefighters said it took them more than an hour to get a hold of Nationwide Energy Partners, the private electric company that severs the complex, to shut off the power, Seavert reported.
"The electrical end of this building feeds all eight units, it's a lot of electricity," said Columbus fire Battalion Chief Michael Fowler. "It's a jurisdictional issue and we think we have it resolved."
Investigators said they hope to work with the electrical company to get a better response in the future.
No injuries were reported.
The American Red Cross was assisting the families that were displaced by the fire.
Stay with 10TV News and 10TV.com for more information. |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 21:39 Post subject: |
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Maybe it's me....
I've always felt that there should be at least one "Emergency Response" unit from the Electric Company, and maybe even the gas company- with the ability to run code (in life or death situations). Of course appropriate training would need to be given.
Most of the utility companies already teach basic first responder skills to special teams/groups..... but I can't count how many times we've been in similar situations where yeah- we were able to pull the meter, but still require the utility company to kill lines- etc.
But that's just me.....
Mike |
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HILO
Regular
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Dallas Texas
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 21:56 Post subject: |
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| In Dallas, we have Eltericity and Gas trucks with red blues, and sirens. They will run code if requested by the Fire Department. |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 22:40 Post subject: Re: |
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| HILO wrote: |
| In Dallas, we have Eltericity and Gas trucks with red blues, and sirens. They will run code if requested by the Fire Department. |
See.... (Now I step on toes).... that's Texas.... It makes sense, therefore it get's done.... now if the rest of us states would get a clue- well... you get the idea.... 
Mike |
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Pimpala03
Moderator
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 10332
Location: Union Parish, LA
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 22:44 Post subject: Re: |
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| mfaith91 wrote: |
| I've always felt that there should be at least one "Emergency Response" unit from the Electric Company, and maybe even the gas company- with the ability to run code (in life or death situations). Of course appropriate training would need to be given. |
I agree. |
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Station 3
Regular
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 950
Location: Lower Rio Grande Valley Area,TX
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:06 Post subject: |
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I dont know if you guys know this but pulling the meter does nothing at all. It is actually more dangerous to do it becuase sometimes the meters tend to blow up in the pullys face and end up killing them. The reason i know this is because they make each firefighter in my town sit through hours and hours of this stuff a couple of times a year. Our local power group puts on a class and they show us videos of people "Firefighters" pulling the meter and then blowing up in thire faces its preaty gruesom. They also tell us that if you pull the meter your just pulling it for no reason since the power is usually supplied in someother matter and the meter has nothing to do with it. Its just that a "meter" and nothing else but they also told us that sometimes and i mean sometimes it does work in that rare situations but most modern houses dont work that way anymore. But i may be wrong maybe they are just telling us this so we wont mess with thire stuff i dont know. 
Station 3 |
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k9vic
Regular
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 791
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:09 Post subject: Re: |
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| mfaith91 wrote: |
| HILO wrote: |
| In Dallas, we have Eltericity and Gas trucks with red blues, and sirens. They will run code if requested by the Fire Department. |
See.... (Now I step on toes).... that's Texas.... It makes sense, therefore it get's done.... now if the rest of us states would get a clue- well... you get the idea....
Mike |
HILO beat me too it, I was going to post the same. I saw one a few months ago but never have my camera handy when I do see them. |
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Jasonc
Regular
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:24 Post subject: |
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| I guess this can be looked at from both ways. I understand they wanted to play safe, but discharging water on a low voltage electrical box, from a safe distance and via a fog nozzle, has a very low risk associated. Electricity is not going to arc through millions of droplets of water. IMO, they could have had this fire contained within a minute, and instead chose not to act for whatever reason. |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:28 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "The electrical end of this building feeds all eight units, it's a lot of electricity," said Columbus fire Battalion Chief Michael Fowler. "It's a jurisdictional issue and we think we have it resolved." |
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Jasonc
Regular
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:29 Post subject: Re: |
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| Station 3 wrote: |
I dont know if you guys know this but pulling the meter does nothing at all. It is actually more dangerous to do it becuase sometimes the meters tend to blow up in the pullys face and end up killing them. The reason i know this is because they make each firefighter in my town sit through hours and hours of this stuff a couple of times a year. Our local power group puts on a class and they show us videos of people "Firefighters" pulling the meter and then blowing up in thire faces its preaty gruesom. They also tell us that if you pull the meter your just pulling it for no reason since the power is usually supplied in someother matter and the meter has nothing to do with it. Its just that a "meter" and nothing else but they also told us that sometimes and i mean sometimes it does work in that rare situations but most modern houses dont work that way anymore. But i may be wrong maybe they are just telling us this so we wont mess with thire stuff i dont know.
Station 3 |
+1 Many things can go wrong when pulling a meter. In most cases you can safely fight a fire without pulling the meter anyways. Let the power company pull it, and then finish your overhaul. Meters in larger construction usually do not interrupt power anyway.
Last edited by Jasonc on Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:35; edited 1 time in total |
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Jasonc
Regular
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:32 Post subject: Re: |
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| mfaith91 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "The electrical end of this building feeds all eight units, it's a lot of electricity," said Columbus fire Battalion Chief Michael Fowler. "It's a jurisdictional issue and we think we have it resolved." |
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Yes, but its still all at the same voltage as the outlet your computer is plugged into. For all practical purposes you are dealing only with 120VAC, which is deadly, but not out of reason. As long as you practice proper precautions, you are fine. |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Thu 14-Aug-2008 23:39 Post subject: Re: |
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| Jasonc wrote: |
| mfaith91 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "The electrical end of this building feeds all eight units, it's a lot of electricity," said Columbus fire Battalion Chief Michael Fowler. "It's a jurisdictional issue and we think we have it resolved." |
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Yes, but its still all at the same voltage as the outlet your computer is plugged into. For all practical purposes you are dealing only with 120VAC, which is deadly, but not out of reason. As long as you practice proper precautions, you are fine. |
I don't mean to get any type of argument going, but you could have 3-phase in the box pushing the whole complex AC/Heating unit....
I understand what you are saying in a residential setting, but this is more of a commercial environment.... |
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AdaFire38
Contributing Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 520
Location: Ada, MI
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 04:22 Post subject: Re: |
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| Station 3 wrote: |
I dont know if you guys know this but pulling the meter does nothing at all. It is actually more dangerous to do it becuase sometimes the meters tend to blow up in the pullys face and end up killing them. The reason i know this is because they make each firefighter in my town sit through hours and hours of this stuff a couple of times a year. Our local power group puts on a class and they show us videos of people "Firefighters" pulling the meter and then blowing up in thire faces its preaty gruesom. They also tell us that if you pull the meter your just pulling it for no reason since the power is usually supplied in someother matter and the meter has nothing to do with it. Its just that a "meter" and nothing else but they also told us that sometimes and i mean sometimes it does work in that rare situations but most modern houses dont work that way anymore. But i may be wrong maybe they are just telling us this so we wont mess with thire stuff i dont know.
If your power guys are telling you that then (a) please don't let them come to my house cuz they have NO idea what they are talking about... or (b) they are just telling you that so you don't touch their stuff.
Pull the meter on your house... bet it goes black.
Station 3 |
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Jasonc
Regular
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 09:23 Post subject: Re: |
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| mfaith91 wrote: |
| Jasonc wrote: |
| mfaith91 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "The electrical end of this building feeds all eight units, it's a lot of electricity," said Columbus fire Battalion Chief Michael Fowler. "It's a jurisdictional issue and we think we have it resolved." |
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Yes, but its still all at the same voltage as the outlet your computer is plugged into. For all practical purposes you are dealing only with 120VAC, which is deadly, but not out of reason. As long as you practice proper precautions, you are fine. |
I don't mean to get any type of argument going, but you could have 3-phase in the box pushing the whole complex AC/Heating unit....
I understand what you are saying in a residential setting, but this is more of a commercial environment.... |
Even if its 3-phase (in a light commercial application), you still are only pushing 120VAC (208VAC wye connection). Its the volts, not amps that have the potential. I would have understood if a high voltage line, but these firemen were out of line not saving the structure from what would have been a simple job. |
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Jasonc
Regular
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Outer Banks, NC
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 09:31 Post subject: Re: |
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| AdaFire38 wrote: |
| Station 3 wrote: |
I dont know if you guys know this but pulling the meter does nothing at all. It is actually more dangerous to do it becuase sometimes the meters tend to blow up in the pullys face and end up killing them. The reason i know this is because they make each firefighter in my town sit through hours and hours of this stuff a couple of times a year. Our local power group puts on a class and they show us videos of people "Firefighters" pulling the meter and then blowing up in thire faces its preaty gruesom. They also tell us that if you pull the meter your just pulling it for no reason since the power is usually supplied in someother matter and the meter has nothing to do with it. Its just that a "meter" and nothing else but they also told us that sometimes and i mean sometimes it does work in that rare situations but most modern houses dont work that way anymore. But i may be wrong maybe they are just telling us this so we wont mess with thire stuff i dont know.
Station 3
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If your power guys are telling you that then (a) please don't let them come to my house cuz they have NO idea what they are talking about... or (b) they are just telling you that so you don't touch their stuff.
Pull the meter on your house... bet it goes black. |
Pulling the meter on a residential structure will kill the power, but it's extremely dangerous, and should ONLY be done if absolutely necessary. They do blow up frequently, the glass does break on them, you are up and close with a dangerous amount of current...the list goes on. I'd much rather hose down a power line than have to pull a meter. Also, meters for 3 phase applications or large structures don't kill power when removed (they now use plastic shunts to do that). |
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Robert W.
Regular
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 713
Location: Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 10:09 Post subject: Re: |
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| mfaith91 wrote: |
| I've always felt that there should be at least one "Emergency Response" unit from the Electric Company, and maybe even the gas company- with the ability to run code (in life or death situations). Of course appropriate training would need to be given. |
+1 For that idea as well.
I can't stand going through hours and hours of firefighter "electrical awareness" training then get stuck waiting for a company. And the sad part is there are still firefighter out there who convince themselves it is just a cable tv/phone line and ignore it until the line starts sparking.
The only problem I can see with the response unit I can see is that customers will whine when they have a power outage demanding to have one of those units sent to their area immediately.
Get ready for new threads in the installs and member rides sections that include mid-90's international cherry pickers with Q sirens and lightbars! |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 10:14 Post subject: Re: |
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| Robert W. wrote: |
| mfaith91 wrote: |
| I've always felt that there should be at least one "Emergency Response" unit from the Electric Company, and maybe even the gas company- with the ability to run code (in life or death situations). Of course appropriate training would need to be given. |
+1 For that idea as well.
I can't stand going through hours and hours of firefighter "electrical awareness" training then get stuck waiting for a company. And the sad part is there are still firefighter out there who convince themselves it is just a cable tv/phone line and ignore it until the line starts sparking.
The only problem I can see with the response unit I can see is that customers will whine when they have a power outage demanding to have one of those units sent to their area immediately.
Get ready for new threads in the installs and member rides sections that include mid-90's international cherry pickers with Q sirens and lightbars! |
We had a call in our county this morning (1am) and the officer sat there until nearly 4am waiting for the line crew to get their and take care of the LIVE POWER LINES DOWN and the broken telephone pole.
YIKES! |
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Robert W.
Regular
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 713
Location: Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 10:16 Post subject: |
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Glad to hear there was a police officer on scene as apposed to a firefighter!! 
Sorry, a little cop vs. firefighter humor, but that stinks regardless of who you are. |
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mfaith91
Contributing Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1884
Location: Brandenburg, KY
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 10:20 Post subject: Re: |
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| Robert W. wrote: |
Glad to hear there was a police officer on scene as apposed to a firefighter!!
Sorry, a little cop vs. firefighter humor, but that stinks regardless of who you are. |
Yeah... the fire crews turned it back over to the police officer.... and he got stuck sitting there doing traffic control.... which IMO isn't supposed to be a function of the FD unless you have Fire Police- which we don't in Kentucky.
Mike |
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Robert W.
Regular
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 713
Location: Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 10:28 Post subject: |
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I never really understood who would want to be a fire police officer. We only have a couple around here that someone would be unable to firefight, but would still like a function on the department, and they are helpful not only for traffic, but they help around the station and at large events, etc.
There are some great YouTube videos of guys hoping in a dodge ram van or ford econoline and taking off after a large apparatus for traffic control. The best was a video of a rescue truck the size of an HME FDNY Rescue (the ones that could not turn around in the street and barely made it out of the station) taking off for a medical call followed by an early 80's ram van that was full of guys for traffic control.
But back to the power company issue, that is an absurd wait time, and the guys always meet you on scene like you inconvenienced them and their job is only 9-5. The guys who preform emergency response should know they are needed ASAP, otherwise they should find a new job/position. |
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DSYCUTTER
Regular
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Mon CO NJ
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 14:47 Post subject: |
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| I have been an electrician for 15 years now, and on MOST resdidences, pulling the meter DOES in fact kill all the power in the house. YES there is still a live wire on the outside of the house, but it is indeed safer for units operating inside the structure. I am not saying every firefighter should be yanking meters, but it is a specialty just like any other skill. Im still a bit confused why this FD handled the situation the way they did. |
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Robert W.
Regular
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 713
Location: Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 14:49 Post subject: Re: |
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| DSYCUTTER wrote: |
| I have been an electrician for 15 years now, and on MOST resdidences, pulling the meter DOES in fact kill all the power in the house. YES there is still a live wire on the outside of the house, but it is indeed safer for units operating inside the structure. I am not saying every firefighter should be yanking meters, but it is a specialty just like any other skill. Im still a bit confused why this FD handled the situation the way they did. |
Most of your fire magazines sell the tools to do so but I have been with two different departments and they both have the policy of let the electric company do it. |
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DSYCUTTER
Regular
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Mon CO NJ
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 14:50 Post subject: Re: |
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| Robert W. wrote: |
| DSYCUTTER wrote: |
| I have been an electrician for 15 years now, and on MOST resdidences, pulling the meter DOES in fact kill all the power in the house. YES there is still a live wire on the outside of the house, but it is indeed safer for units operating inside the structure. I am not saying every firefighter should be yanking meters, but it is a specialty just like any other skill. Im still a bit confused why this FD handled the situation the way they did. |
Most of your fire magazines sell the tools to do so but I have been with two different departments and they both have the policy of let the electric company do it. |
Oh I agree 100 percent. But if and when the need arises I have offered my skills. Safety is priority number one. |
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SirSpeeddry
Regular
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 571
Location: haverhill Ma
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 15:23 Post subject: |
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question... i may sound stupid but why not just have some sort of Kill swtich to each house on the telephone polls or the houses that can be reached with a pole or what not to kill the power?
i know theres the hole vandlsm and other things with it but it just makes sense..
though i have been told that what i say makes to much sense and the world works with out it .. |
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jknox7230
Regular
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Worcester County, MA
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| Posted: Fri 15-Aug-2008 16:25 Post subject: Re: |
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| SirSpeeddry wrote: |
question... i may sound stupid but why not just have some sort of Kill swtich to each house on the telephone polls or the houses that can be reached with a pole or what not to kill the power?
i know theres the hole vandlsm and other things with it but it just makes sense..
though i have been told that what i say makes to much sense and the world works with out it .. |
They're called fuses. I watched Revere Fire wait for Mass Electric to pull the growling fuse before they'd finish putting out the fire. The house can be rebuilt; that's what insurance is for. |
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