Ambulance w/o lightbar

SARGEEK

Spent the week traveling the east cost from Washington DC to NY and Back and these are some of the oddities I saw:

I saw two ambulances responding code with only the KKK standard lighting - First time I have ever sceen an ambulance without a lightbar. Just the red box lights alternating with the grill lights/ and white light on the box. It was OK to see going straight, but the off axis warning was horrible. I would not want to run intersections with thoes rigs. One had LED lights, and the other strobes. Not much traffic clearing power.

First time I had sceen \"Roto Lights\" in action. - Probabley about as effective as steady burns, but my guess they keep them as tradition. Nice touch, and makes it easy to identifies fire apparatus.

One state has thier State Patrol Cars (Maryland, I think) have Blue Domes on the left side of the vehicles.

Saw and LED Edge w/ cruise lights - they were pretty effective in making the car noticible - DC police should but them in all the cars they have parked all over the capitol.

SNOW SYSTEMS

Im pretty sure sure chicago doesnt have lightbars on their ambulances either. They use Federal Signal LED mod lights. Some use the FireRays which arnt bad. Anybody else know any info on Chicago and their ambulances?

FD7FF

Well I just looked up pictures of chicago ambulances and not one had a lightbar on it. Interestingly enough, I also looked on google for images and all but 2 of the images I found were from accidents involving the ambulances...without lightbars...tells you something doesnt it?

danamc100

Ours here in the Raleigh area don't have lightbars either. The top three lights on the front of the box assist the lower level lighting to the front. Each side of the box has a pair of the huge whelen leds on each side, along with the scene lighting.

Andrew · Regular Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 84

FedSig Fireray strobes are FANTASTIC, but certainly shouldn't be relied upon as primary warning. Most of the apparatus here that came with FedSig packages have the GS5s in red or amber, and you can see them clear as day from a long way out. Whatever power supply they're using to fire them, it's effective.

Mark Y.

[quote:2b38d4e72b=\"Andrew K.\"]FedSig Fireray strobes are FANTASTIC, but certainly shouldn't be relied upon as primary warning. Most of the apparatus here that came with FedSig packages have the GS5s in red or amber, and you can see them clear as day from a long way out. Whatever power supply they're using to fire them, it's effective.

Posted: Thu 17-Nov-2005 19:01 Post subject:

the crossbar/lightbar is not in the KKK specs. it is outrageous that someone actually made a comment about two buses in a wreck without bars and thinks there is a correlation between the two. that has got to be one of the most idiotic things i have read on here in long time. honestly....do you really think one has anything to do with the other? the only reason any service would not run a lightbar is $$...plain and simple.

Posted: Thu 17-Nov-2005 19:10 Post subject: Re: Ambulance w/o lightbar

[quote:26df2d7fd3=\"SARGEEK\"]Spent the week traveling the east cost from Washington DC to NY and Back and these are some of the oddities I saw: I saw two ambulances responding code with only the KKK standard lighting - First time I have ever sceen an ambulance without a lightbar. Just the red box lights alternating with the grill lights/ and white light on the box. It was OK to see going straight, but the off axis warning was horrible. I would not want to run intersections with thoes rigs. One had LED lights, and the other strobes. Not much traffic clearing power.

Posted: Thu 17-Nov-2005 19:17 Post subject: Re:

[quote:d86756fd04=\"Myron Grombacher\"]the crossbar/lightbar is not in the KKK specs. it is outrageous that someone actually made a comment about two buses in a wreck without bars and thinks there is a correlation between the two. that has got to be one of the most idiotic things i have read on here in long time. honestly....do you really think one has anything to do with the other? the only reason any service would not run a lightbar is $$...plain and simple.

Posted: Thu 17-Nov-2005 20:14 Post subject:

I've had the misfortune of working in a rig with just KKK lighting plus wig wags and traffic did not move well. To top things if it was a Demers van with the roof lights underneath clear glass, the sunlight reflects off the glass reducing the warning lights. The lights were a mix of LED and halogen, and a mix of Weldon, Whelen and Tomar! To add further insult it had an SVP siren with cheesy sounding tones. Yelp sounded like a toy space gun, wail was lame, phaser should be left at the factory. The only decent sounding tone was hi-lo I have been there lately, but I have seen dashlights added to many DC rigs. I would assume supplied by the crew.

Posted: Thu 17-Nov-2005 21:51 Post subject:

DCFD ambulances do not have lightbars at all, just KKK lighting in LED. The older units were similar, but with strobes. Also, Anne Arundel County ambulances only recently got lightbars.

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 01:18 Post subject:

With todays's lighting options, does it really matter? Nope. Our last ambulance was delivered san's lightbar. All LED and it is just as effective without the 100amp light draw. Its it fun to have extra stuff? Usually. However, when the fog really rolls in going up the mountain, the box lights are really nice in LED vs having the bar on top refecting back a lot of light (which we turned off). Its all preference.

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 04:29 Post subject: 1 of our trucks has no bar.

it's an AEV traumahawk all strobe KKK lighting. looks fine and people move. my only problem is the new vans no longer have the lights in the grille, but under the headlights. ford says they can no longer put lights in the grille due to \"air restriction\" headlights kind of wash out the strobes ... we added a tir6 slimlighter to the dash for ha ha's and everyone seems to like it ... we are going to be adding wigwags to it also. on a separate note, we broke tradition with this truck and went away from white ambulances and went with all red/black top and gold leaf writing ... sombody's idea of \"mixing things up\" .... it's kind of sharp looking, even though it totally looks like a boars head van. the next truck is getting speced with a meat slicer :c�

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 09:04 Post subject: ha

This is a topic I know a lot about. I used to see Chicago / DC trucks and say \"wow, how cheap/under lit is that??!?\". Now that I drive and service ambulances, my opinion has changed. First of all, everyone should read the federal specs on ambulance lighting. Section 3.8.2 of http://www.gsa.gov/gsa/cm_attachments/GSA_DOCUMENT/ambulanc_1_R2FI5H_0Z5RDZ-i34K-pR.pdf The federal specs for ambulance lighting are VERY specific. The flash pattern is red against clear (front) and amber (rear). This flash pattern has had lots of tax dollars worth of study put into it. I would really like to get our trucks stripped down to just the required KKK lights and one front TCL. There is absolutely no need for any more lights, and the amp draw is nuts (KKK specs 40 amps or less, trucks with full lightabrs can be as high as 120). The absolute worst setups in my opinion are the trucks with red/clear/red/clear/red/clear/red/clear/red/clear/red candycane pattern. Stand back from one when the lights are on, it looks like a pink glow. Most of the trucks in my area have the KKK flashers, AND lightbars. I always chuckle when I see the KKK flashers from a mile away, and the lightbar doesn't show up until the truck is on top of me. I don't know how many studies have come out that show a few large, slow/steady flashing lights grouped by color are the most effective. As long as you make sure you have the intersections lights mounted so they cover the intersections, you are fine. 1 or 2 extra directional lights of the same type as KKK lights (9x7) can be a nice add on, but only if they are flashed with the other lights of the same color. A TCL or extra set of lights on the fenders/bumper don't hurt, as long as the colors are grouped. I have seen 100% KKK systems in strobe, and I don't like them as much as LED or halogen. An all strobe KKK only system does seem to provide a more true color than most strobes, probably because of the seperation of color and the distance the lights are apart. This theory can be demonstrated by the new Ohio state vistas. They have LED lower decks which flash slow but bright. The strobes on the top of the bar do not even show up at night until you are about 100 feet away. Just like you can see the CAN lights on DOT trucks before you can see the full edge bar. The sad fact is that most people who spec lights go for the most and fastest flashing lights they can find and then they arrange them with the colors all jumbled together. What a waste of money for an ineffective setup. I know nobody likes to hear that less is more... but its true. John Last edited by John Marcson on Fri 18-Nov-2005 10:20; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 10:12 Post subject:

our paramedics used to use vans that had the same KKK style lighting. Except that there was a pair of front facing oscilasers between the front facing box lights. However they had grill and intersecton strobes with split Red/Clear lenses instead of straight red halogen flashers

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 10:45 Post subject: Re: ha

[quote:d52781f672=\"John Marcson\"]The sad fact is that most people who spec lights go for the most and fastest flashing lights they can find. I know nobody likes to hear that less is more... but its true. John

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 10:51 Post subject: Re: ha

[quote:74cb8dcb94=\"NPS Ranger\"][quote:74cb8dcb94=\"John Marcson\"]The sad fact is that most people who spec lights go for the most and fastest flashing lights they can find. I know nobody likes to hear that less is more... but its true. John

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 10:55 Post subject: Re: ha

[quote:0283c5984b=\"NPS Ranger\"][quote:0283c5984b=\"John Marcson\"]The sad fact is that most people who spec lights go for the most and fastest flashing lights they can find. I know nobody likes to hear that less is more... but its true. John

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 11:25 Post subject: Re: ha

[quote:b6a249626f=\"Doug (MD)\"][quote:b6a249626f=\"NPS Ranger\"][quote:b6a249626f=\"John Marcson\"]The sad fact is that most people who spec lights go for the most and fastest flashing lights they can find. I know nobody likes to hear that less is more... but its true. John

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 12:33 Post subject:

Most ambulances in my area use red/clear as intersection lights and usually front grille lights. For the most part I think AMR also specs them out. There really isn't anything stopping you from doing such as setup, as long as your also in compliance with state law, which most people go by.

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 13:43 Post subject: Re:

[quote:e0a4ac0432=\"Pj\"]Most ambulances in my area use red/clear as intersection lights and usually front grille lights. For the most part I think AMR also specs them out. There really isn't anything stopping you from doing such as setup, as long as your also in compliance with state law, which most people go by.

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 15:14 Post subject: more

I agree the slow flashing lights on the box can be sceen at incredible distances, and their head-on effectiveness is awesome, but I would feel a little more comfortable with a little additional warning power. The ambulance with the pure KKK package only have one lighting type, and I still think the best set ups have a combination lights I will also admit that full speced MX is overkill but a halogen rotator does provide lighting at every angle and the intersection lights are also a great addition. John, what if you mounted the inside reds at a 45 degree angle, like the new interior lightbars. One more question, what is with the clear strobes on School Busses? Are they required to have them on 24/7?

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 15:24 Post subject:

Depends on the state law. Some can be 24/7, others when occupied only. I have to admit, when its dark, some are annoying...especially when its snowing

Posted: Fri 18-Nov-2005 20:57 Post subject:

The basic KKK spec is great at communicating at long distances to people who know what they are looking at. Intersection coverage is minimal at best, and it does not convey any sense of urgency to the front. Slow flashing is best for ditsance and recognition, but requesting right of way takes some more oomph. It doesn't take much more to make that happen. Many of the vans I've worked out of had a halogen KKK lights, along with a Powerpulse wig-wag and a Code3 MX with 3 rotators RCR lenses. Works great and not much extra amp draw. Aside from that on Demers van, all the other rigs I've run I never noticed any difference with style of lightbar, ie strobe or halogen. The biggest factor was the headlight flasher.

	eLightbars.org Forum -> Lightbars, LED lights, strobes, and beacons	All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2