Another question on SOG/SOP's...

Robert Neer

My Dept. is considering a change in one of its response SOG/SOP's....

Currently, we do not respond to any Mvc/Mva in our district, unless requested by EMS or LEO. We do not run any medical with EMS, mostly due to the fact they are FT staffed at the hospital and we are POC.
All we do is extrication, or if requested, lifting assistance or such for the ambulance.

Now, we are looking at running all MVC outside the city limits. Outside only, due to the fact city cops can get to crashes within 2-3 minutes in town. The town is only about 1 mile square. (9000 res). But our District is about 130 square miles.

As it stands now, we don't get kicked unless someone on scene says they need us or there is confirmed entrapment.

One of our Commisioners wants this changed. But out Chief is really fighting it. We have tried to explain the reasons why we feel it is nessesary to respond right away, but he doesn't feel it is nessesary. We broke it down into a timeline to help....

Crash in North part of district.
Call for help 1-2 minutes
EMS and LEO dispatched and responding 1-2 minutes
Drive time for EMS and LEO 15 minutes
AOS for sizeup 1-2 minutes
Request for Extrication and Dispatch 1 minute
Firefighters responding to station 3-5
Drive time for FD to scene 15 minutes

So 45 minutes from start to extrication begining. We are lloking to see what you guys do for SOP/SOG to try and change ours.... Give me some help here guys......

grfd711

I say you guys should be punched out automatically regardless of where it's at.

DaveCN5

My department goes to all MVA's on first tone because we have 7 EMTs and almost a dozen MRTs (first responders). We can usually beat the ambulance to the scene and often times can have the patient packaged and ready to go by the time the ambulance even gets there.

I think it's a matter of having the necessary resources to deal with the situation. If you don't have EMS certified members, I wouldn't be responding to MVA's. One department near us is in roughly the same situation. On first tone they respond with traffic, until advised by on scene personnel whether they can return or upgrade to a full response. That might be something to consider.

stfd717 · Regular Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 99 Location: Topeka, KS

[quote:0ea782c684=\"grfd711\"]I say you guys should be punched out automatically regardless of where it's at.

Posted: Wed 12-Nov-2008 16:17 Post subject:

My department is a small rural department, all volunteer. We are dispatched automatically on all reported MVCs with injury. The key words for us to go are injury, fire, entrapment. Many area departments don't respond until someone arrives and requests them, but as your argument shows (well laid out by the way!), there can be a huge time delay in waiting to be requested. And, when the firetruck finally rolls in and cuts the person out and they die (even if they may have died from their injuries anyways) it's gonna be the fire department that is made out to be the bad guys who took so long to show up. We are also stepping it up a notch by providing a blocking pumper, advance signage and traffic control (if no PD available) not only to protect our guys & gals but to also provide cover for the paramedics, police and tow operator. If you chief is worried about budgets, etc, where your department is POC, then maybe a limit on the number of responders may be in line (such as 4 on rescue & 4 on a pumper or engine). And I know this may be an issue in itself but if you've got 20 guys arriving at the station at about the same time, but the first 6 are always the first 6 in, then a rotation schedule of some sort can be put into place. And to cover the other piece of this, at this time my department only responds on Medical Assist calls when requested. Keep up the fight, I think you're in the right! Andrew

Posted: Wed 12-Nov-2008 17:03 Post subject:

We do both fire & ems PIA / MVA SOP: Ambulance first Heavy Rescue Engine

Posted: Wed 12-Nov-2008 18:10 Post subject: Re:

[quote:a657ef27c4=\"Captain014\"]My department is a small rural department, all volunteer. We are dispatched automatically on all reported MVCs with injury. The key words for us to go are injury, fire, entrapment. Many area departments don't respond until someone arrives and requests them, but as your argument shows (well laid out by the way!), there can be a huge time delay in waiting to be requested. And, when the firetruck finally rolls in and cuts the person out and they die (even if they may have died from their injuries anyways) it's gonna be the fire department that is made out to be the bad guys who took so long to show up. Andrew

Posted: Wed 12-Nov-2008 23:07 Post subject:

As stated make an \"automatic response on all reported MVCs with injury. The key words for us to go are injury, fire, entrapment.\" But dispatchers should be trained to interrogate callers concerning the incident and what resources may be necessary. Also, if another public safety agency is on scene and says to cancel emergency response, do it. No sense endangering other drivers or yourself.

Posted: Thu 13-Nov-2008 21:13 Post subject:

+1 here. Even if you don't get used, it's call volume to at least help when it comes to grant writing and budget justification. I get called for any possible structure fire as the safety officer, more often than not I get waved off either by the time I get in the car or go a couple of blocks, however at the end of last year we did 750 structure fires and our town is only a square mile (realistically we did do about 350 last year). But when we wrote the end of the year summary for the village board and also for the FEMA grants, which we just got yesterday included the higher number.

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