Exterication Technique Opinion

FFDsmokeeater

Came across this picture. What is your opinion of this technique of raising the steering column off a patient?

http://mcfd.org/Multimedia/images/2008-11-16-res4cue/original/IMG_1513.JPG

brewmeister

Dash roll with spreaders= more efficient and saves time? Razz

It also doesn't look like a very safe position the fireman is in.

My $0.01

kiwibagpiper

Definitely never seen that one before Twisted Evil

We either use the spreaders as brewmeister suggested or do a chain pull, the chain gets wrapped around the steering column, run over a stack of cribbing on the hood and is then attached to the undercarriage at the front of the vehicle and then you just start winching. I personally have never seen or heard of the technique that you displayed in this picture, but it definitely doesn't look very safe.

FFDsmokeeater

I agree with both of you brewmeister and kiwibagpiper. I am more prone to do a dash roll. When I first saw this pic, I noticed how the base of the jack could easily become upstable and kick out. Either hitting the patient or firefighter with great force. I would not recommend this technique to anyone. Ironicly, this picture was taken at a extrication training class.

Mick (firewolf)

we generally use the hydrauliuc ram, spreaders, or spreaders with chains, depending on the overall circumstances, not sure this particular method looks like a good idea. But then again, I've learned never to say never . . . the fire service thrives on innovations to handle new and different situations, you never know . . .

dynastar666

[quote:7f99c6377d=\"FFDsmokeeater\"]I agree with both of you brewmeister and kiwibagpiper. I am more prone to do a dash roll. When I first saw this pic, I noticed how the base of the jack could easily become upstable and kick out. Either hitting the patient or firefighter with great force. I would not recommend this technique to anyone. Ironicly, this picture was taken at a extrication training class.

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 11:39 Post subject: Re:

[quote:fc51f0943c=\"Mick (firewolf)\"]the fire service thrives on innovations to handle new and different situations, you never know . . .

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 11:46 Post subject:

What ever happened to using the tilt lever on the steering column? That looks dangerous as hell. Lift the dash.

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 11:52 Post subject: Re:

[quote:694ba8fda4=\"brewmeister\"][quote:694ba8fda4=\"Mick (firewolf)\"]the fire service thrives on innovations to handle new and different situations, you never know . . .

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 11:57 Post subject:

It definitely looks like the forces are working against each other. The jack being pulled down and the column pulled up

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 11:59 Post subject: Re:

[quote:51e8833956=\"wduda92\"]It definitely looks like the forces are working against each other. The jack being pulled down and the column pulled up

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 13:56 Post subject: Re:

[quote:61e488e7b0=\"wduda92\"]It definitely looks like the forces are working against each other. The jack being pulled down and the column pulled up

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 15:36 Post subject: extrication pic

To me, I feel the same as everyone else. Make your relife cuts and use either the spreaders or a ram. I prefer the ram because you dont tie up your spreaders if you need to use them for another task during the operation and you get more spread out of most rams. I also do not use the chain pull around the steering wheel anymore either. It has been brought out that by wrapping the chain around the steering wheel of newer cars, can be more dangerous as well. Its due to the universal knuckle in the steering column. I have used the chain wrapped around the base of the entire dash and used with a comealong. Im not a winch fan, although its a very good source of easy force, i prefer to have a bit more control over the action taking place, but thats just me.

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 15:50 Post subject:

I would rather roll the dash also. I don't care for standing on the cowl, and a high lift jack can cause serious injuries if your hand slips off the handle at an inoppurtune time, such as falling off the cowl of a car

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 15:56 Post subject:

At our extrication training, they said to not cut the column because sometimes the steering wheel jumps out and hits the patient. It seems the pulling on it like that could do the same thing. It would be an uncontrolled break.

Posted: Tue 18-Nov-2008 16:04 Post subject:

That's a new one for me... We usually use our mini-cutters to cut the steering wheel, or do a roll using rams and a wedge.

Posted: Tue 9-Dec-2008 16:57 Post subject:

we are told to leave the steering wheel and to just place a cover over it. (dont remember name of cover)

Posted: Tue 9-Dec-2008 17:33 Post subject:

doesn't look safe to me, would just prefer to do the dash roll from the underside of the dash, and how would it work with a good head-on collision having the whole front end of the car smashed up to the driver compartment, that changes everything then as far as being to lift the dash from the method shown in the pic.. won't see me trying it..

Posted: Tue 9-Dec-2008 19:09 Post subject:

Most agencies now have redundant hydraulic systems, so if one of your pumps goes down, or a ram craps out, you have a backup. Now, regress to 1968, when I got my start. We had no Hurst Amkus tools. I learned to pull a steering column with a hand powered Porta-power, and also using a come-along. Slow and tedious, but they worked. Now, can you do this with a bottle jack? Sure can...... When I taught extrication I had the class taking roofs off using hand tools, and removing doors and tunnelling through the floor using an air chisel. You never knew when your power tools would crash. We've come very far, but the basic student still needs to know how to use mechanical advantage. This particular technique? Something to play with, but I don't think I would try it with a patient sitting there.

Posted: Tue 9-Dec-2008 23:06 Post subject:

Nearly everyone has said that they would use some kind of hydraulic tool. While I agree with that decision, My current department didn't have a tool until I purchased an old tool myself last year. I started my career with tools few, extremely heavy and slow. You learned to think out of the box and use other means. And that included the use of a Hi-Lift jack, but the placement there is definitely unsafe. One day at the table, sit down with some of your more experienced members and discuss what you can use if you had a catastrophic failure and had to revert to alternative methods. Sometimes the back to basics is a nice refresher. Don't get me wrong, I love having a tool and I'm hoping for the feds to give us some money and we can get something that isn't 20 years old.

Posted: Wed 10-Dec-2008 07:53 Post subject:

Very true, Pondfly. At the last class I took, We managed to take a roof off with a handsaw. Tiring, but it does show that it can be done. There's a saying that the difference between a Pro and a Beginner is that the Pro's do the basics better!!!

Posted: Wed 10-Dec-2008 19:02 Post subject:

While I agree with the rest of you on this being a slightly unsafe technique, I could see the reasons why it would be taught at an extrication class. Say a car goes off an embankment where you can't get the spreaders or a ram to. This could probably be a viable, but last resort technique. I doubt this was taught as a first resort method.

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