Issued citation to vollie yesterday.....

Jasen Hatfield

While on patrol the other night, I issued a citation to a township vollie as he was responding to a call. Now before many of you get up in arms over this I will explain the details. I monitor the fire/ems frequency in my cruiser and heard a township fd dispatched to an open fire plug. As I was at an intersection in the area of the fire house a vollie blew thru a red light running hot at an extremely high rate of speed with little regard for traffic on the roadway. Now I run volunteer as well, however I do not consider an open fire plug as an \"emergency\". Low and behold, as I pulled into the parking lot dispatch advised me that several motorist called and complained on this individual prior to me seeing him at the intersection. I issued him a citation for reckless op based on what I saw and had a good long talk with him. I realize that this might not be the preferred action of many, and I am all for a good working relationship between LE and FD agencies but just because one has a red light/siren does not give them exclusive use of the roadway en route to a call. Not to mention that a good friend of mine wrapped his vehicle around a tree during the summer of last year en route to a fire call, he was going nearly 30 mph over the legal limit, he survived however he has not been able to return to full function at the FD. Any opinions.......I am sure there will be many.

Hugh A.

Bro, I am not going to recommend how you do your job. If you witness an idiotic responder operating carelessly and neglegently (sp?), in addition to having several complaints about it, write 'em! That will hopefully tone them down, as well as tone any other people who are doing the same thing. You will probably catch some flack for it from them, but it just means they aren't smart enough to know better or look at the big picture. The adrenaline enduced tunnel vision some people get when responding is DANGEROUS. Thank you, sir, for doing your job.

rescue76_822

I think you done the right thing.......maybe some others in the are will take notice to his actions.

DLuccia

let me get this the vol firefighter responding with lights and sirens to a open fire plug

thats a common call here in my area around summer time kids opening the caps and playing with the fireplugs however FD doesn't respond to those thats the waterdepts job around here they maintain all the fire plugs in the city

i see no reason that responding with lights and sirens and ignoring traffic laws for a dumb call like that

i am glad to see that you wrote him
if i did that in my town not only would i get a ticket but i'd get a 30 day suspension and have my light permit pulled for 6 months.

Mick (firewolf)

I'm all for lights and sirens, I've said that many times. I think they are invaluable tools of the trade. For Emergencies!!!!! I can't believe ANYONE would think it neccessary, let alone advisible, to run code to an open fire plug? Unless it's causing cars to crash into each other or into houses, or pushing some poor old lady down the street, there's no reason to respond any other way than normal traffic. And even if one of those things WERE happening, due regard MUST, I repeat, MUST, play a role in the response. If it were me, and this is from a \"vollie's\" point of view, I'd have not only written him a citation, but at least considered advising his chief (probably depending on how much of an idiot he was while I was talking to him about the ticket . . .) Assuming you're telling us completely accurate information, and I would have no reason to believe otherwise, you did the right thing.

rescue76_822

If anything your dispatch needed to refer the callers to contact the fire cheif of the agency he is with, on top of dispatching the call out....We have done that here before,,,we have one Vol fire dept. on the south side of town, one on the west side of town, and one on the north side of town. Most of them are on all three depts. And when a call goes out you have vollies from all over the city responding.......At Woodbine the dept Im with we decided unless it is a Go TO H*&^ call do not respond code in the down town area......and since I work at the PD I understand what goes on more when there are several Vollies running code through town.

tvsjr · Banned user Joined: 27 Aug 2005 Posts: 1501 Location: DFW

Jasen - you did the right thing. The tones dropping is not an excuse to turn on the lights, turn off the brain, and plant the right foot, especially when going to an open fire plug call (that would be a non-emergency response around these parts).

smokeeater

i agree with that 100%

Andy L.

It looks like everyone else has said it all pretty good. I also work PD/FD and couldn't agree more with your choice. If were me, I probably would have let the FD Chief watch the video from my in car camera.

Again, you made the right decision, unlike the Firefighter.

Stay safe.

JoeFF10

My FD is volunteer.. but we do NOT run LS to open hydrants.

Dr. Jon

I think it was deserved. it also sounds like he might need a short \"vacation\" from the fire service.

Hugh A.

Now that you mention it, if that happened on my dept, it's an immediate 30 day suspension. If it happens again, you're gone.

nmfire10

You did the right thing. Personally, I think he was worthy of a PIT maneuver or at least having his tires shot out.

FireEMSPolice

You did good. You outta show him ORC Section 4511.03 (Emergency vehicles to proceed cautiously past red or stop signal).

Section 4511.03 - Emergency vehicles to proceed cautiously past red or stop signal

Ohio Revised Code

(A) The driver of any emergency vehicle or public safety vehicle, when responding to an emergency call, upon approaching a red or stop signal or any stop sign shall slow down as necessary for safety to traffic, but may proceed cautiously past such red or stop sign or signal with due regard for the safety of all persons using the street or highway.

(B) Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.

Point out the DUE REGARD in bold letters. In the academy and at any FD I have been on, this was drilled into our heads.

Phillyrube

I would and have written summonses on volunteer providers for stupid stuff like this. Sounds like it was deserved.....

Bob

What's the word I'm looking for? Ah yes... GOOD!

There are a lot of these types of threads recently. Not just here, but on other boards I'm on. They're all good discussions. There has been one thing missing from most of these discussions though: the perspective of the department line officer.

As an line officer, I've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with a couple of incidents not unlike the one described above. I have had discussions with some of the Sheriff's Deputies who work on this side of the County about these types of incidents. They frequently say something like \"We're all on the same team here. I may stop 'em and talk with 'em, but I won't write 'em.\" I typically tell the Deputy that if it's one of MY people, and they're doing something stupid enough to get stopped enroute to a call, they damned well better get a ticket. And then, I better get a phone call.

I understand and wholeheartedly respect the discretion that police officers are (generally) afforded in doing their jobs. I know very few police officers who will pull someone and write them a ticket for 3 over the limit. I know a lot of guys who will issue an appearance ticket instead of going for immediate arraignment if the arrestee is cooperative. And a large number of officers will offer 'professional courtesy' to other cops, firefighters, and EMS folks and let a little more slide. After all, we ARE all on the same team.

At the same time, I can't be there to supervise the activities of all of my people all of the time. Just like so many other people, I have a couple jobs, family, and other obligations. For that reason, among others, I hold my people to a higher standard. When in uniform or when acting on behalf of the department, EVERY thing you do reflects on the department. In turn, every thing you do reflects upon me. When dealing with the public, image is everything. When you're screaming down the road, acting like an idiot, people see that. The light in your dash or on your roof is nothing more than a sign that says \"Hey everyone, look at me!\" And you know, people DO look. And they take note. And phone calls DO happen. And editorials DO and up in the paper.

Poor driving has absolutely NO place in the Public Safety arena. When it comes to safety, I expect Law Enforcement to offer no more courtesies to Fire and EMS folks than the general public.

patrol530

Look, A busload of nuns could of hydroplaned into an oak tree in the resulting flood. Seriously, reckless operation is a criminal act (at least here in Florida) and deserves the attention you bestowed upon it. I've hung my share of paper on overzealous responders over the years, although since there are no longer lights, and were never any sirens permitted, I've not had the occasion to issue any in several years.

ATVrescue24

I think you did the right thing. An open fire plug is nothing to reckless drive to. You'll create a MVa and another call doing that. Good job.

Pete

FD7FF

good call, 100% in agreeance (sp?? Shocked

)

EVModules

Mr Hatfield,

You were wrong,...

You should have taken him out of the vehicle, took his keys, tarred & feathered him in public square!

In all seriousness, a phone call or a visit to the superiors would have capped things but neverless, I wasn't there and perhaps with your \"talk\", it may have took care of things clearly. I applaud your actions!

Bob has written a very fine piece and I hope all vollies truly understand. I wonder if that state, township, vollie dept has a required training course for emergency vehicle driving?

[quote:becd833aa9=\"Bob\"]...At the same time, I can't be there to supervise the activities of all of my people all of the time. Just like so many other people, I have a couple jobs, family, and other obligations. For that reason, among others, I hold my people to a higher standard. When in uniform or when acting on behalf of the department, EVERY thing you do reflects on the department. In turn, every thing you do reflects upon me. When dealing with the public, image is everything. When you're screaming down the road, acting like an idiot, people see that. The light in your dash or on your roof is nothing more than a sign that says \"Hey everyone, look at me!\" And you know, people DO look. And they take note. And phone calls DO happen. And editorials DO and up in the paper.

Poor driving has absolutely NO place in the Public Safety arena. When it comes to safety, I expect Law Enforcement to offer no more courtesies to Fire and EMS folks than the general public.

Posted: Sat 25-Feb-2006 10:42 Post subject: Re:

[quote:2d7ceb91c0=\"Sean - EVConcepts\"]In all seriousness, a phone call or a visit to the superiors would have capped things but neverless, I wasn't there and perhaps with your \"talk\", it may have took care of things clearly.

Posted: Sat 25-Feb-2006 12:05 Post subject: Re:

[quote:dec181157d=\"Hugh A.\"][quote:dec181157d=\"Sean - EVConcepts\"]In all seriousness, a phone call or a visit to the superiors would have capped things but neverless, I wasn't there and perhaps with your \"talk\", it may have took care of things clearly.

Posted: Sat 25-Feb-2006 13:35 Post subject:

Sounds like the dept got all the bases covered!

Posted: Sat 25-Feb-2006 17:43 Post subject: MOre

You did the right thing - I would also call the cheif/commander of the FD out of professional courtesy. The person was representing the Fire Department while he was responding to the call, so it the business of the fire department. The Department also should also know for insurance purposes - do they really want the potential liability of this guy driving like this. Its crazy. The last point is to maintain the relationship between the PD & FD. If the guy was a real prick during the stop - call his insurance company to check his coverage, and let them know why you stopped him, other wise the the FD handle everything else. New a guy who was reponding to a call from way out of district and the State Troopers clocked him at 102 on the interstate reponding. Pretty much ruined his chances at becoming a professional FF. Unintentional consequences - this is what most of the kids with the P71 don't understand.

Posted: Sat 25-Feb-2006 21:48 Post subject: danger

There are a few vollies here that need a good ticketing. Someone who drives like that isn't going to respond to a warning. you did what you had to....For the sake of dept/public relations and public safety...

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