Thread: Paypal "Payment owed" and "gift" method, bye bye money! Don't let this happen to you!

I bought a pair of Impaxx's for $60 and haven't received them. I can't dispute because I didn't "puchase" goods, so therefore I will never use payment owed option again. Has anyone else have this same issue???

That is why you ONLY do it with someone you trust. This is also one of the reasons that the board admin suggests not using it here.

Pimp beat me to it.

I only use it with people i know, or have dealt with before. I wont use it with someone i don't know. I would rather spend a few extra bucks on the fees, just incase the deal goes south.

This grinds my gears since my brother in-law paid for them and keeps asking me so I have to eat the $60 bucks. Sweet.

Was the transaction done on here?

Yea it was done here on jan 28th. I guess I should keep my eyes open from now on, been on this board since around 03-04 and have NEVER had any issues until now. I've always has positive transactions with board members.

If you like you can post a negative feedback thread on here. Just make sure to post the original link to the thread that you got the LEDs off of.

Ok, ill be the second to say that i hate doing it that way too. Paypal fees are similar to credit card fees that an establishment (seller) pays in order to accept credit cards as payment. Which in the case of paypal, sellers have decided they will not pay the fees like any brink and mortar store has to pay for thier credit card fees.

Making the customer pay an increased price for goods just because you don't want to pay the fee is just plain wrong. But, since paypal has trouble catching all of the "work arounders", buyers will have to continue fronting the fees.

Currently i'm in the process of getting a CC machine and paying the fee so my local customers can buy my items. As a hard working upfitter/seller, the CC transaction will sting a little, but i know that every other store that accepts CCs pays around the same as i do. Its the cost of doing business.
To know that there are sellers on here who demand that their customer's pay the fee makes me a little miffed to say the least.

I have never asked anyone buying my products on here to pay me via paypal using the "payment owed" method, and i never will. I think its wrong to do so. As a buyer why do i have to pay what the seller should be paying when they use paypal as a payment source!?!?!?

Never mind the fact that it means you can't dispute the transaction if the seller doesn't ship it! That makes it even worse.

I think that sellers should simply ask for slightly more money for their items, let the customer send the amount for the item, then the seller can deduct the fee out of the extra money he made and pay the fee himself. Problem solved!

Man up and pay the fee! You would have to do it if you had a CC machine!!

I recently did a legit money owed transaction with a friend, and I, the sender, paid the fee. Check it out. It looks like one or the other pays a fee. For those who abuse, and try to get out of the fee, the loop hole may be closed.
Dan

I just sent funds to Truck26 by the payment owed method, $135 and paid no fee's

Originally Posted by emt322636

I just sent funds to Truck26 by the payment owed method, $135 and paid no fee's

Did you have the $135 already in your paypal account or did you pay with cc through paypal?

Because there is no fee for sending money from the balance in your paypal account, but if you sent it from a cc, you either pay the fee or the person receiving the money does. One of you has to pay for the cc funds to be withdrawn from the bank and sent to the receiver.

General:
Listen, I don't like paypal either because they can be a pain to deal with. However they charge about the same as any cc processing company does, which is basicly what paypal is. It's not right to say they can't charge for the same service a cc company charges regular companies for accepting cc as payment for an item. In this situation you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's a fact of life.

If you ask Paypal, they will tell you that the fee is to cover them securing the money and refund services should the deal go sour.

If you trust the buyer/seller 100%, then there's no need for their "services", in my opinion.

Everyone bitches about Paypal, but we seem to forget how much of a pain it used to be to go to a store, buy a money order, mail it, and sometimes wait for it to clear. Their fees seem reasonable to me. Better than a money order fee and postage. How can you expect something for nothing?

Originally Posted by WireKing

Ok, ill be the second to say that i hate doing it that way too. Paypal fees are similar to credit card fees that an establishment (seller) pays in order to accept credit cards as payment. Which in the case of paypal, sellers have decided they will not pay the fees like any brink and mortar store has to pay for thier credit card fees.

Currently i'm in the process of getting a CC machine and paying the fee so my local customers can buy my items. As a hard working upfitter/seller, the CC transaction will sting a little, but i know that every other store that accepts CCs pays around the same as i do. Its the cost of doing business.
Man up and pay the fee! You would have to do it if you had a CC machine!!

i have a program that interfaces with paypal , and had a swiper thats connected via usb........
i use that in my storefront, so i can accept credit cards in person via paypal.

i rarely accept cards in my storefront,as its there more for "show" reasons that anything and free rent, but it does work when needed, its a great tool when you do not proccess 10 or more cards a day......

Originally Posted by 911

i have a program that interfaces with paypal , and had a swiper thats connected via usb........
i use that in my storefront, so i can accept credit cards in person via paypal.

i rarely accept cards in my storefront,as its there more for "show" reasons that anything and free rent, but it does work when needed, its a great tool when you do not proccess 10 or more cards a day......

What program do you use? Sounds interesting!
Ive got an iPad that i use with an app called QuickSale and it is a really really sweet program for creating quotes, invoices, inventory tracking etc, and it interfaces with an add on swiper, i just haven't gone as far as to get the swiper. I figured i would just go ahead with a conventional CC machine.

Id be interested to hear what program you use.

Originally Posted by WireKing

Did you have the $135 already in your paypal account or did you pay with cc through paypal?

That was it, I didn't realize they didn't charge if the funds were already there.

Originally Posted by crescentstar69

Everyone bitches about Paypal, but we seem to forget how much of a pain it used to be to go to a store, buy a money order, mail it, and sometimes wait for it to clear. Their fees seem reasonable to me. Better than a money order fee and postage. How can you expect something for nothing?

I agree with this statement 1000% ! Who of us out there runs a business or provides a service and expects no profit? C'mon people, PayPal fees are a SMALL price to pay for insurance and convenience.

I love PayPal, have been a member in good standing since 1997 with no major issues. Follow the rules, and you won't have issues. I think many of the folks having problems are the ones trying to skirt the fees and rules. Also, there are some assholes out there that are going to rip you off no matter how you pay them. It's the risk taken doing business online with strangers unfortunately, but that's people for ya.

Gotta stand with Cajun on this one. PayPal has worked exceedingly well for me as both a buyer and a seller on Ebay and directly with various customers.

Talk to anyone who runs an business that accepts credit cards. They all pay a fee for every transaction involving a debit or credit card. PayPal is no different thus the fee that you pay to receive a payment. It is just a cost of doing business. Every business owner here on ELB will tell you the same thing.

Way back when, we all wanted some form of internet banking that would allow us to send and receive money securely and safely. And it had to use credit/debit cards and also connect direct to our bank accounts. You have to think of PayPal as an online bank. When you look at it from that point of view, PayPal has far exceeded our expectations.

Best advice I can give anyone is to buy and sell over the net using methods that include dispute resolution. PayPal, when properly used, offers that security. So does Ebay.

You can't blame the bank when someone rips you off. There is a certain amount of "caveat emptor" involved in these direct transactions, and I would urge both buyers and sellers to understand this.

At this point, it ought to be pretty clear that any seller that wants you to use the "payment owed" method may not be very trustworthy.

The primary problem with the "payment owed" or "gift" method is that it leaves the person paying open to losing the money. If you mark a payment as a gift or payment owed you are declaring that you expect nothing from the other party in return for that payment. There is then absolutely no way to later say that the payment was for a good or service. I can't help you go after the other person, and PayPal can't/won't either. I understand that users are doing this trying to save each other some money, but it is a huge opening to having your money stolen with absolutely no recourse. If you use this method don't even bother trying to go after the person when your item doesn't ever arrive.... you gave your money away without recourse.

The second issue is that intentionally mislabeling a payment to avoid a fee is technically fraud. eLightbars can't appear to condone fraud or deceitful business practices in any way. Part of PayPal's user agreement is that "Users May Not Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information". PayPal is a business and makes money from fees. If you misrepresent your payment type to avoid paying a fee they aren't going to be sympathetic to you when the person runs off with your money. PayPal does actually has a specific rule forbidding the mislabeling of transactions to avoid fees. eLightbars is placed in an awkward position when users violate other sites policies stemming from deals on eLightbars. To protect the site from being accused of being friendly to such deceitful practices, a blanket policy is in place on eLightbars. "Users must not violate any established policies of 3rd parties involved in transactions (ie payment or shipping companies). This includes but is not limited to providing false transaction information in order to avoid fees and duties." While I don't expect people to read all the fine print on every site the sign up for, it think it's pretty obvious that providing false information about a payment in order to avoid a fee isn't going to be in line with that site's policies. Use third party sites in accordance with their directions and in the way they were meant to be used and you will be fine.

The bottom line is regardless of any site's policies, users need to fully think through decisions they make about transactions. The risk of theft exists no matter what policies or safeguards I put into effect. All you can do is clearly weigh your options and make the least risky decisions possible. Never under any circumstances label any payment for goods as anything other than a payment for goods no matter what payment method you are using. I will do my best to help sort out transactions and bring them to an acceptable resolution when I can. However, if you label your payment for goods as a gift or debt owed I'm not even going to waste my time with the "case"... your money is gone. Live and learn, you have no one to blame but yourself.


eLightbars policy: Users must not violate any established policies of 3rd parties involved in transactions (ie payment or shipping companies). This includes but is not limited to providing false transaction information in order to avoid fees and duties.

PayPal Policies: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?c...locale.x=en_US
Which includes
"if you are selling goods you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase."
"Users May Not Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information"