Thread: Feniex Python T-4 -vs- Whelen LIN3

My curiosity finally got the best of me and I had to see what Feniex LED's are all about. I called the company and explained my situation of wanting to simply test something of theirs. Since they had a Python T-4 in blue that was a demo used at a show they sold it to me for 60% off.

It arrived today and was packaged very well. Upon opening it I was pleasantly surprised by the compact size. I decided to compare it to a Whelen LIN3 since I had an open one handy. I powered them both up using a 13.79 volt regulated power supply. I chose steady burn for both to not be distracted and get a good current measurement.

This is what I found:

-To my eyes both were similar in brightness. I may give the T-4 a +1 straight on.
-LIN3 had better off axis performance.

-T-4 current consumption = 0.500 amps. (Install guide says 0.300)
-LIN3 current consumption = 0.174 amps.

-T-4 after 5 minutes was almost too hot to touch while the LIN3 was still cold .

-T-4 produced RFI through the scanner on the same bench. (Company claims none)

This video shows the two side by side. T-4 on left, LIN3 on right.


This video is an example of the RFI I was experiencing. During this video the T-4 was powered off a battery since the install guide warns against using other power supplies and I wanted to see if the power supply was the issue and it wasn't.


T-4 is on left, LIN3 in on right.


SANY0007.jpgSANY0004.jpgSANY0006.jpgSANY0005.jpg

Final thoughts:

Light output from the T-4 was pretty impressive and I initially thought I may have found something worth using. The heat and RFI generated changed my mind and will have me steering clear for the time being. I would be happy to test more, but not at my expense.

Update:

I decided to see just how hot this thing was getting and here it is at one hour. (@ 15 min. it was over 140)
SANY0013.jpg

Update 2:

I called Feniex today to give them my feedback. I felt obligated too. Everyone I've had on the phone was very pleasant considering my constructive criticism. They had a tech. call me back to talk about my concerns. I was told that the RFI problem is embarrassing for them and has been dealt with. The heat issue was something that was going to be brought to the engineers. I was also told that the "steady burn" pattern is a lower light output than the flashing patterns. I powered the light back up with an "all on" "all off" pattern that looked like 60-70 fpm and my visual observation of output was no different. With this pattern I still observed 150 deg. f. I told the tech. if they sent me "corrected" products I would happily revisit this comparison. They never did offer to take back or refund my "demo" light purchase which I kind of hoped they would. I did forward this link to their support also.

Let me know if you hear back from fenix about the RFI, that's totally unacceptable.

Originally Posted by JohnMarcson

Let me know if you hear back from fenix about the RFI, that's totally unacceptable.

Yeah it is. I am not sure why, but I was really surprised. I'm glad I had the scanner on or I may have missed this. I'll contact them tomorrow and see what they have to say.

Im kind of disappointed at the light output of the T-4. I was expecting the difference between the 4 diodes of the T-4 and only 3 on the LIN3 to be a bit greater than it appeared in the pictures. I'm even more disappointed in the brightness of the T-4. I was expecting the Phillips 4 watt diodes to be substantially brighter then the 1 watt luxeon emitters in the LIN3.

Yes the RFI and heat issue need to be addressed. If it gets as hot as you say then wouldnt it melt the rubber gasket or damage the plastic flange?

Does the T-4 have a low power activation wire for nighttime use? Im concerned that even most new lights that have the Rebel diodes are already too bright for night usage without using the low power activation. These would be absurd for night use and a huge danger for night use. See the "Moth Effect" thread for more details.

Just my $.02

I was considering ordering some as well, but this has me questioning myself.

We have found the RFI issues pop up on our Feniex installs as well in our Charger. While not being produced by the T-4...we were having some issues with the Fairy LED HAWs in the reverse lights. We were familiar with this problem as a set of Whelen Vertex heads had caused the same problem.

Turns out our Whelen and Fairy issue just required a new wire run and moving some coax around to the VHF. No issues there any more.

I will make sure we get with our Feniex rep and see what they have to say about this.

We have a Python 800, T-4's, Python 600 and dual Fairy HAWs on the car now and have had no issues with heat or RFI after we made the above fix.

We are waiting on our new Pegasus interior bar...so we will see if that makes any difference too.

Tra-Fx

Originally Posted by WireKing

Im kind of disappointed at the light output of the T-4. I was expecting the difference between the 4 diodes of the T-4 and only 3 on the LIN3 to be a bit greater than it appeared in the pictures. I'm even more disappointed in the brightness of the T-4. I was expecting the Phillips 4 watt diodes to be substantially brighter then the 1 watt luxeon emitters in the LIN3.

Yes the RFI and heat issue need to be addressed. If it gets as hot as you say then wouldnt it melt the rubber gasket or damage the plastic flange?

Does the T-4 have a low power activation wire for nighttime use? Im concerned that even most new lights that have the Rebel diodes are already too bright for night usage without using the low power activation. These would be absurd for night use and a huge danger for night use. See the "Moth Effect" thread for more details.

Just my $.02

I was considering ordering some as well, but this has me questioning myself.

Yes, the heat issue is a BIG problem, it got very hot.
The RFI was also pretty disgusting.
No low power mode. Disappointing

Obviously pictures and videos are a poor judgment of these products, but it's the best we can do. I also expected the T-4 to have much greater output. To my eyes it was almost equal output with the T-4 using almost three times the power!!
I'll be sticking with Whelen.

Originally Posted by WireKing

Does the T-4 have a low power activation wire for nighttime use? .

It should, from my knowledge, all of their lights have a "low light" level wire.

Originally Posted by Bigredinstalls

It should, from my knowledge, all of their lights have a "low light" level wire.

This is not accurate.

Four wires exit this light head:

Black (ground)
Red (+12 volts)
Yellow (pattern)
White (sync)

I did express to one of their account managers, who I was on the phone with for around an hour expressing my concerns of the product, that the light should have a low power option.

Originally Posted by code4services.com

This is not accurate.

Four wires exit this light head:

Black (ground)
Red (+12 volts)
Yellow (pattern)
White (sync)

I did express to one of their account managers, who I was on the phone with for around an hour expressing my concerns of the product, that the light should have a low power option.

I stand corected, I've only dallied and laid my hands on their python sticks.

Wow, didn't realize that heat generation was an issue with the T-4's. I was thinking about using TIR3's on an ATV and ran short and didn't like how they looked and thought I'd save them for another project which required a big brand name light. This issue had brought me back to the T-4 since it's sleek, but the heat issue will be a big problem, especially when surface mounted to and ATV, which is all plastic. I guess that's where Whelen's heat-sinking keeps them cool. I can run a TIR3 all day without any heat buildup.

I wonder if Feniex has addressed this issue yet.

I have t4's mounted to the bumper cover of my demo car. They have been on for hours on end infront of the shop and shows with no damage. I am comfortable enough with them o plan on mounting some on my can am atv

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I must admit that both my demo T-4s and Fairys got extremely hot after running them for about 15 minutes. When I asked Alex at Feniex about this, he said it was a problem they were aware of and that they would be trying to fix the problem in future versions. Additionally, he recommended to mount them on things such as their L brackets, as this would deal with the heat better when installed on vehicles.

Ill be honest, i was worried about them on my bumper covers but even with Florida weather nothing has melted yet. ill try to remove one and take a pic behind it tomorrow.

Sorry it took so long yo get the pic but here is behind my t4 on the side of the rear bumper cover. The mark on the left of the hole for wires is just where I had a new installer put them on and he damaged the paint. This was taken after I have left them on at the shop for 3 hrs this morning.



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Just my opinion, from my experience with this type of LED lights I could say that these lights must not be damaged by use in burn option if they are well-made for good heat dissipation, on the other hand, usually this type of lights option do not push their maximum brightness in burn option, I will like to see them in a flash function side by side to each other, so I'm sure the T4 will bright much more, this is quite evident in the consumption of them, if the LIN3 only consume 140ma the T4 can not give the same brightness if they consume 500ma in burn option.

Can you please show a video with both lights flashing in a similar pattern?

I have run my T-4s for hours on end mounted to the plastic grille in my F150. I have not seen any issues whatsoever...other than them being very bright.

I would think a T-4 compared to a Whelen TIR3 would be a better comparison as far as light output. Here your comparing a TIR style light (T4) to a linear light (LIN3). Will give two different results.

IMHO just look at the depth of ea. lighthead....Whelen looks to be much more sturdy and the heat sync appears to be 2X the thickness....The T4 is bright..but for how long? Steady burn the 2 lightheads and see which fails first...

Don't forget The T4 has 4x 4watt diodes in it compared to Lin3's which has 3x 1watt Diodes.

Comparing Apples to oranges.

I think that any of this lights are build to stay in burn option for a long time, their dosent have enought heatsink to resist it, this funtion is for use with external flasher...

Originally Posted by SireLite

Don't forget The T4 has 4x 4watt diodes in it compared to Lin3's which has 3x 1watt Diodes.

Comparing Apples to oranges.

You are correct, they are 4 watt led's but they aren't driven that hard, they drive their leds around 1.1-1.2 watts.

There is one downside to the T-4s that I have noticed. The flash patterns are boring and limited in number. Fortunately, I like the strobe pattern so it works for me.

Originally Posted by code4services.com

Yeah it is. I am not sure why, but I was really surprised. I'm glad I had the scanner on or I may have missed this. I'll contact them tomorrow and see what they have to say.

Anyone doing a review of a NEW product-- please try the scanner test, or another more scientific RFI test if you can.

Originally Posted by JohnMarcson

Anyone doing a review of a NEW product-- please try the scanner test, or another more scientific RFI test if you can.

The RF problem was address some time ago and now all Feniex produces compile with FCC regulations.

Originally Posted by SireLite

Don't forget The T4 has 4x 4watt diodes in it compared to Lin3's which has 3x 1watt Diodes.

Comparing Apples to oranges.

With that logic shouldn't the T4 be brighter? I would consider the LIN3 "old" technology at this point, and yet it is still preforming quite well compared to a new product (the T4).

Originally Posted by EVT

With that logic shouldn't the T4 be brighter? I would consider the LIN3 "old" technology at this point, and yet it is still preforming quite well compared to a new product (the T4).

Originally Posted by SireLite

Don't forget The T4 has 4x 4watt diodes in it compared to Lin3's which has 3x 1watt Diodes.

Comparing Apples to oranges.

Wattage is not the best way to determine brightness, and the performance of the leds/diodes themselves vary greatly. Diodes are separated by performance and brightness into categories called bins.

The lin3 and t4 use the same luxeon rebel leds/diodes (though most likely different bins) and are driven at comparable rates, most likely in series. CREE diodes are driven at similar rates.

The lin3 draws .400mA max and the The t4 draws .500mA max at their highest brightness setting.

http://www.whelen.com/pb/Automotive/...ad_Catalog.pdf

When a steady burn pattern is selected, the lin3 draws .170mA (what the reviewer saw on his power supply), and the t4 draws .500mA. The steady burn pattern is supposed to provide maximum output for a few seconds, and then dim to 50% or less. This is done so the diodes don't over heat or wear out prematurely. The t4 drawing .500mA seems to be an error with the flashers steady burn programming, and like the reviewer noticed, it quickly becomes way too hot.

The brightness should be comparable on paper, with the t4 being brighter, but again that would require testing. 1 extra led in the t4 won't make a big difference in perceived brightness, but on paper it might depending on what bin Feniex chose to use.

Blue Luxeon Rebel LEDs

You have the low end, and cheapest diodes producing 38 lumens, and the most expensive producing 70 lumens. With 3 diodes in mind, 114 lumens vs 210 lumens results in a broad range of brightness. And then you have to keep in mind the lin3 could be using cyan diodes, which are generally brighter then blue. Cyan Luxeon Rebel LEDs

It's not a black and white situation because there are so many technical issues.

I also prefer the LIN3 over the T-4.

The Feniex products I have had always seem to use more energy producing heat than actual light output. The 3w/4w led's have yet to win me over.

Whelen seems to be doing their homework, by designing a 1w light that has controlled heat output, but is still very bright. Feniex on the other hand seems like they are trying to hit the LEDs with as much power as they can, but it isn't working.