Thread: FDNY - NEW Rescue 1 Reporting For Duty - 2/14/12

Originally Posted by Travelin Man

A winch is rated for it's capacity based on it's pulling power at the drum, not it's ability to self-recover. You could put a 12,000# winch on an ATV and it would self-recover, but a 2000# winch on a brush truck would struggle with self-recovery. The rig seen features a 15,000# winch, with gives it a working rating of about 11,000#, assuming you're using it in a 1:1 fashion. You could go to about 20,000# in a 2:1.

Now, as for this rig in particular, it's a heavy rescue in one of the most populated and disaster-prone cities in the US. What couldn't it be used for?

They could pull a tractor-trailer out from under a bridge to better extricate the driver, assist with moving and/or stabilizing someone trapped under heavy debris at a construction site, assist with a subject impaled by a tree stump while operating a Bobcat (saw this personally), pull a car out from under a tractor trailer in an under-ride situation - your imagination is your limit when it comes to the uses for a winch.

And with the type of firemen that make it to rescue duty, they have the brains and imagination to use them a LOT in some pretty cool ways I bet.

Originally Posted by Travelin Man

A winch is rated for it's capacity based on it's pulling power at the drum, not it's ability to self-recover. You could put a 12,000# winch on an ATV and it would self-recover, but a 2000# winch on a brush truck would struggle with self-recovery. The rig seen features a 15,000# winch, with gives it a working rating of about 11,000#, assuming you're using it in a 1:1 fashion. You could go to about 20,000# in a 2:1.

Now, as for this rig in particular, it's a heavy rescue in one of the most populated and disaster-prone cities in the US. What couldn't it be used for?

They could pull a tractor-trailer out from under a bridge to better extricate the driver, assist with moving and/or stabilizing someone trapped under heavy debris at a construction site, assist with a subject impaled by a tree stump while operating a Bobcat (saw this personally), pull a car out from under a tractor trailer in an under-ride situation - your imagination is your limit when it comes to the uses for a winch.

Yes, I get the weight ratings :P I know quite a bit about winches.

What I meant was, the winches are only rated SAFETY-wise for recovery... they aren't rated for lifting, stabilization for human safety (ie under a vehicle), etc. They have no fail-safe, no backup. When we do stabilization or preventing a tip, and use chains, its static chains hooked to the engine's frame. We were taught to ALWAYS suspect every bolt of being compromised. Ie no using tow hooks, winches, etc, when human life is in any danger. Just curious why NYC would be that much different. As far as pulling a car out, doesn't NYC have tow trucks?

Our department policy is winches are ONLY to be used for self-recovery, and never ever to be used for any other purpose. We'd tunnel through the car before pulling it out... that sounds like you'd be causing a LOT more trauma.

Originally Posted by nluszcz

We were taught to ALWAYS suspect every bolt of being compromised. Ie no using tow hooks, winches, etc, when human life is in any danger. Just curious why NYC would be that much different. As far as pulling a car out, doesn't NYC have tow trucks?

Our department policy is winches are ONLY to be used for self-recovery, and never ever to be used for any other purpose. We'd tunnel through the car before pulling it out... that sounds like you'd be causing a LOT more trauma.

I enjoy good job-related dialogue.

As for the winching operations, I always encourage members to follow their department policy. However, I also encourage people to look at alternative methods of rescue operations. While certainly "never trusting a bolt" is putting safety foremost, I'd argue that it's almost overboard. Look all the things that are bolted - fire truck bodies, bridges, airplane fuselages. Heck, look at how many winches are bolted to their vehicle frames, and how many Class V hitches are bolted on, and we don't see a rash of winches and trailer hitches falling off when they're under load.

As for tunneling, that's is certainly an option, but I would consider it a Plan C option. In a side under-ride (vehicle partially or completely under the side of a tractor-trailer for example), you not only have to consider patient access, but patient removal as well. We have to consider that we might quadruple the amount of time taken to access and remove the patient, whereas, winching the vehicle out from under the vehicle would give us better patient access more quickly, and provide additional extrication options such as roof removal. Plan B would be to use a heavy duty wrecker to lift the trailer off the car, and then make a decision on best patient access & extrication. While it's textbook "never move a vehicle with a patient inside," there are times that minor movement of the vehicle with the patient inside will provide a greater chance of survival and recovery.

These are all things that we've practiced and used in my department, but we also have a lot of instructor and equipment resources that aren't available to everyone since we're partner in a large regional technical rescue team.

Originally Posted by nluszcz

Yes, I get the weight ratings :P I know quite a bit about winches.

What I meant was, the winches are only rated SAFETY-wise for recovery... they aren't rated for lifting, stabilization for human safety (ie under a vehicle), etc. They have no fail-safe, no backup. When we do stabilization or preventing a tip, and use chains, its static chains hooked to the engine's frame. We were taught to ALWAYS suspect every bolt of being compromised. Ie no using tow hooks, winches, etc, when human life is in any danger. Just curious why NYC would be that much different. As far as pulling a car out, doesn't NYC have tow trucks?

Our department policy is winches are ONLY to be used for self-recovery, and never ever to be used for any other purpose. We'd tunnel through the car before pulling it out... that sounds like you'd be causing a LOT more trauma.

It's anecdotal, but I'll say this much, FDNY rescue companies LITERALLY wrote the book on rescue. And yes, they have wreckers, and sometimes waiting on them can get people killed. When speed is a factor, you use what you have, and it's better to have the tool and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Updated with another vid. FDNY Res1cue one now in service.

With the amount of money Res1cue costs you would think Farrara would sync the rear Blue Leds. They need to slow down the Headlight Flasher as well.

Originally Posted by VolEms

With the amount of money Res1cue costs you would think Farrara would sync the rear Blue Leds. They need to slow down the Headlight Flasher as well.

Remember, the rigs are built to the customer's specifications...

Slow ALL of those patterns down, hate how the lightbars are flashing, and sync the rear, possible sides as well. other then that, its an awesome setup.