Thread: MSP Additions

MSP additions

So many questions. Is the Mass State Police going all Ford? How many of these have they taken delivery of? I really wasn't expecting to see the Taurus-based Interceptor on the streets until this fall.

I've been waiting so long for this!

i like how the taurus interceptors look

Originally Posted by Luismariadarlene

i like how the taurus interceptors look

Its a Police Interceptor Sedan.


Also, I didnt think production had begun of the Police Interceptor Sedan or Police Interceptor Utility.

I saw the Utility/Explorer in MSP Livery a while ago... it really highlights the lines of the truck (mainly the forward swooping C pillar) and I think it looks really sharp.

The Taurus looks pretty good, I think it will be a decent police car. The 92-95 Taurus PPV was a fast car, with decent handleing and braking. FWD cop cars are not as bad as people think. Chevrolet has done well with FWD PPV's since the early 90's with the Lumina and Impala.

I just dont care for the new Explorer's looks in general, nor for the fact that it is the same platform as the Taurus.


Any info as to AWD on either?

Originally Posted by HILO

The Taurus looks pretty good, I think it will be a decent police car. The 92-95 Taurus PPV was a fast car, with decent handleing and braking. FWD cop cars are not as bad as people think. Chevrolet has done well with FWD PPV's since the early 90's with the Lumina and Impala.

I just dont care for the new Explorer's looks in general, nor for the fact that it is the same platform as the Taurus.


Any info as to AWD on either?

It being the same platform is going to be a great bonus for fleet maintenance. The use for truck based SUVs, especially in the Mass State Police, aren't really there. The car based "Utility" will be wonderful for officers who need more room (K9, Dive Team, etc). For special applications where a truck based platform is required the department can just go with a PU (crew cab?) with a bed cover / utility body. Just like in the civilian market, a car-based SUV makes more sense for 90% of the market.

I'm not sure on the AWD for MSP, but I think it's a wonderful idea for police work. Not just for inclement weather, but for handling in general, even on dry roads. I know there is a $$ difference, but as far as an officer safety issue, I hope that in 10 year's time we'll all be shaking our head at the idea of a police vehicle that isn't AWD.

Originally Posted by HILO

The Taurus looks pretty good, I think it will be a decent police car. The 92-95 Taurus PPV was a fast car, with decent handleing and braking. FWD cop cars are not as bad as people think. Chevrolet has done well with FWD PPV's since the early 90's with the Lumina and Impala.

I just dont care for the new Explorer's looks in general, nor for the fact that it is the same platform as the Taurus.


Any info as to AWD on either?

Blech. This abomination will fall flat on it's face. I'm willing to bet on it.

A turbo charged AWD platform isn't going to handle the unique abuse police cars get. Simple is better. What Ford did here was beyond dumb.

The Lumina was short lived. The early 90s ones were horrible as were the Taurus (Taurii?). The WImpala is the "rental car" of police package vehicles. They suck, but it's all some agencies want to run because politicos are convinced they are more economical that the CVPI. Our city ran them for years, and for a gofer car it's not bad, as pursuit vehicle it sucks miserably. But our city cops rarely if ever, chase.

I drove an Impala for several years. It's a horrible car.

Originally Posted by kadetklapp

Blech. This abomination will fall flat on it's face. I'm willing to bet on it.

A turbo charged AWD platform isn't going to handle the unique abuse police cars get. Simple is better. What Ford did here was beyond dumb.

The Lumina was short lived. The early 90s ones were horrible as were the Taurus (Taurii?). The WImpala is the "rental car" of police package vehicles. They suck, but it's all some agencies want to run because politicos are convinced they are more economical that the CVPI. Our city ran them for years, and for a gofer car it's not bad, as pursuit vehicle it sucks miserably. But our city cops rarely if ever, chase.

I drove an Impala for several years. It's a horrible car.

Why not? Just curious.... I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Seems like a perfect application. Majority of the time the V6 power is plenty. Stop and go... or constant speed cruising. Not wasting gas (and engine) on making more HP than needed. Then, when speed and power is required the turbo spools up and gives the extra kick.

Turbos are a lot better than they used to be. I would have agreed that it would have been a bad idea 40 or 30 years ago... but the V6 turbos around today are very capable and sturdy engines.

Also, I think it's foolish to compare this new Ford with the Taurus and Impalas of yesteryear.

Saw one of the new MSP explorers at Logan in Boston back in January, really sharp looking. Have a Liberty on the roof, wasn't lit up so not sure about anything in the rear/side glass etc.

Awesome! Can't wait to see them on the road!

Originally Posted by Zack

Why not? Just curious.... I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Seems like a perfect application. Majority of the time the V6 power is plenty. Stop and go... or constant speed cruising. Not wasting gas (and engine) on making more HP than needed. Then, when speed and power is required the turbo spools up and gives the extra kick.

Turbos are a lot better than they used to be. I would have agreed that it would have been a bad idea 40 or 30 years ago... but the V6 turbos around today are very capable and sturdy engines.

Also, I think it's foolish to compare this new Ford with the Taurus and Impalas of yesteryear.

Foolish?

Do you understand how much heat a turbo generates under heavy use? Now, think about the kind of use a Mass. State Police car is going to get. It's highway/turnpike driving. This means heavy acceleration (using the turbo) and idling at the scene of crashes/traffic stops (the turbo is not spooling and is just sitting there HOT HOT HOT= Car fire). If I had to guess, this isn't some trick racing turbo, but some Volvo low-pressure system that will not kindly take to the thumping its going to get in police service.

Euro cop cars have turbos, a lot of them are diesel. But they still don't see the abuse that American squad cars get.

We can argue all day about it. I'd bet a fiver it's gonna fail.

Originally Posted by kadetklapp

Foolish?

Do you understand how much heat a turbo generates under heavy use? Now, think about the kind of use a Mass. State Police car is going to get. It's highway/turnpike driving. This means heavy acceleration (using the turbo) and idling at the scene of crashes/traffic stops (the turbo is not spooling and is just sitting there HOT HOT HOT= Car fire). If I had to guess, this isn't some trick racing turbo, but some Volvo low-pressure system that will not kindly take to the thumping its going to get in police service.

Euro cop cars have turbos, a lot of them are diesel. But they still don't see the abuse that American squad cars get.

We can argue all day about it. I'd bet a fiver it's gonna fail.

Fair enough.

(I've owned turbos before, and never realized that idling would be a huge problem, resulting in car fires...)

I will note that the vast majority of MSP cruisers are *not* on highways... they patrol "normal" roads. Cities, towns, backwoods. Respond to "normal" police calls for service. Only E Troop is on the Pike. (Other troops very well may have highways in their jurisdictions, but that is only a small part of their duties.)

Originally Posted by Zack

Fair enough.

(I've owned turbos before, and never realized that idling would be a huge problem, resulting in car fires...)

I will note that the vast majority of MSP cruisers are *not* on highways... they patrol "normal" roads. Cities, towns, backwoods. Respond to "normal" police calls for service. Only E Troop is on the Pike. (Other troops very well may have highways in their jurisdictions, but that is only a small part of their duties.)

If they had bought the Caprice, problem solved...

Originally Posted by Zack

Fair enough.

(I've owned turbos before, and never realized that idling would be a huge problem, resulting in car fires...)

I will note that the vast majority of MSP cruisers are *not* on highways... they patrol "normal" roads. Cities, towns, backwoods. Respond to "normal" police calls for service. Only E Troop is on the Pike. (Other troops very well may have highways in their jurisdictions, but that is only a small part of their duties.)

I realized that my sentence structure there is terrible and perhaps misleading.

What I meant to say was: "I've owned turbos before, but I've never realized that idling would be a huge problem (or that my car could have caught fire as a result)."

In fact, I have had my turbo idle for many many hours during details.

(I don't remember seeing anything in the owner's manual about not idling my turbos. What I have seen is the direction that one *should* idle their turbos after running them to give time for it to cool down... which is exactly what kadetklapp is warning against.... so I don't know.)

Originally Posted by twodogs603

If they had bought the Caprice, problem solved...

I can't remember the last time I saw a Chevy MASP vehicle. For the most part they have Fords, and some Dodges

Originally Posted by tom

I can't remember the last time I saw a Chevy MASP vehicle. For the most part they have Fords, and some Dodges

The last time I remember seeing a large Chevy MSP presence it looked like this:



That said, there are some Tahoes that are being currently deployed for K9 and other officers.

Originally Posted by Zack

there are some Tahoes that are being currently deployed for K9 and other officers.

Ah, you are correct.. totally forgot about the Tahoes

Originally Posted by kadetklapp

Foolish?

Do you understand how much heat a turbo generates under heavy use? Now, think about the kind of use a Mass. State Police car is going to get. It's highway/turnpike driving. This means heavy acceleration (using the turbo) and idling at the scene of crashes/traffic stops (the turbo is not spooling and is just sitting there HOT HOT HOT= Car fire). If I had to guess, this isn't some trick racing turbo, but some Volvo low-pressure system that will not kindly take to the thumping its going to get in police service.

Euro cop cars have turbos, a lot of them are diesel. But they still don't see the abuse that American squad cars get.

We can argue all day about it. I'd bet a fiver it's gonna fail.

I can't recall the last time I saw a vehicle with turbo on it that caught fire. Look at all the current ambulance's, fire trucks, dump trucks and all that have turbo's that do not catch fire. The eco boost motor has been out for over 2 years and they have yet to have a problem with the motor. Here is a look at the eco boost motor more in depth and the extensive testing ford did with it; 2012 Ford F-150 | Watch Videos & 360° Demos | Ford.com

Originally Posted by ff168577

I can't recall the last time I saw a vehicle with turbo on it that caught fire. Look at all the current ambulance's, fire trucks, dump trucks and all that have turbo's that do not catch fire. The eco boost motor has been out for over 2 years and they have yet to have a problem with the motor. Here is a look at the eco boost motor more in depth and the extensive testing ford did with it; 2012 Ford F-150 | Watch Videos & 360° Demos | Ford.com

Absolutely correct. Turbo engines have come a LONG way in 20 years. And Ford's EcoBoost has been a tremendous success. EcoBoost was part of their reasoning in terminating production of the entire line of Ranger pickups. There are now V6 F-150s (for only a few thousand bucks more than a Ranger) that get better gas mileage while still producing superior strength. As for the Taurus-based Ford Police Interceptor... this product line will do well. According to Michigan State Police performance testing they are an excellent patrol/pursuit car. And this vehicle is bigger than most people think. Especially those who've not had the chance to sit in one.

Originally Posted by kadetklapp

Foolish?

Do you understand how much heat a turbo generates under heavy use? Now, think about the kind of use a Mass. State Police car is going to get. It's highway/turnpike driving. This means heavy acceleration (using the turbo) and idling at the scene of crashes/traffic stops (the turbo is not spooling and is just sitting there HOT HOT HOT= Car fire). If I had to guess, this isn't some trick racing turbo, but some Volvo low-pressure system that will not kindly take to the thumping its going to get in police service.

Euro cop cars have turbos, a lot of them are diesel. But they still don't see the abuse that American squad cars get.

We can argue all day about it. I'd bet a fiver it's gonna fail.

Idling a turbo is not a problem, and neither is heavy use. Look at all the fire apparatus and ambulances that have a turbo diesel under the hood. They idle for long periods of time, and a diesel puts out much higher exhaust gas temperatures than a gas motor and the turbos last 200,000 miles. An ambulance on a code 3 run gets close to 1000 degree EGTs no sweat. Turbo technology has come a long way, and is very durable and reliable.

Just found some additional info from a trooper acquaintence on the MSP (he previously worked in Fleet Services and always keeps a sharp eye out for new developments) that he posted on another site regarding these cars. There are only four being outfitted and they are not "fleet purchases" so don't expect to see any quantity of new Ford units on the roads of the Commonwealth anytime soon.

These cars are "test mules" in MSP custody to see how they perform and hold up and for evaluation for possible future purchases. In fact, these particular four Interceptors were already tested by the Michigan State Police units and are here (repainted in Mass colors) for "Test and Evaluation". They have two Interceptor SUVs and two Interceptor sedans (one of them being the twin turbo version, and all are AWD). For more pics, including photos that show the original Michigan Royal blue paint under the Mass colors, go here:

Real MSP interceptors

Originally Posted by twodogs603

If they had bought the Caprice, problem solved...

From what I have been told, the Caprice PPV was rejected specifically because of the center console shifter. MSP is looking to purchase 4-500 new cruisers and does not want to spend a significant amount of $$ on developing/purchasing completely new/different consoles for their radios and emergency light/siren equipment.

Originally Posted by Zack

The last time I remember seeing a large Chevy MSP presence it looked like this:



That said, there are some Tahoes that are being currently deployed for K9 and other officers.

The last Caprices purchased by the MSP were 1995 models:

(Photo credit Ian Marlow)
MSP 95 Caprice.jpg
(Photo credit unknown)
MSP 95 Caprice (2).jpg

The new Fords are pre-production test cars. I wonder if California has a few running around in CHP or LASO set up. Ford still owns the vehicles, and will destroy them once they are turned in. It is a good way to get all the bugs worked out.

Originally Posted by Sarge619

From what I have been told, the Caprice PPV was rejected specifically because of the center console shifter.

HA! Good for them. I heard the same from many other agencies. Stupid Chevy!

New cars are at MHQ as of 2/15
423694_10150620767653216_166648528215_9203740_1497622804_n.jpg
429939_10150620767513216_166648528215_9203739_1420679016_n.jpg
Photos Courtesy of Eagle EMS Facebook Page

Originally Posted by firedude

New cars are at MHQ as of 2/15
423694_10150620767653216_166648528215_9203740_1497622804_n.jpg
429939_10150620767513216_166648528215_9203739_1420679016_n.jpg
Photos Courtesy of Eagle EMS Facebook Page

Bet that's going to be a quality install

That is the oddest install shop I have ever seen. When I think install shop, I think of a garage. That looks like a showroom of sorts..lol.