I just picked up this ex-ambulance. I wanna take the lights out and put them in my tow truck and get them working again. I have no control box and am in the process of uninstalling them. I have one out so far and there's no part number or serial number anywhere to be seen. Can anyone identify these light/siren combo pods for me or have any information about them?
1991 Ford ambulance grille lights
- Thread starter gman100505
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dmathieu
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JohnMarcson
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Yeah, CPI speaker combo with twin "halo beam" mini max lights. These came in dual strobe, dual halogen/incandescent, and combo. They went by a few names; twin sidebeam, minimax, or halobeam. You will have a dual reflector with both halogen bulbs likely wired together. The quality of the reflector is likely to be faded or flaked off. The lights were powered by an ambulance flasher, they will be tough to remount without a mount other than the speaker. They would flash with any alternating flasher.
You can separate the bulbs and flash them as a split lighthead. The bumper / pedestal mount for 73/700 series will fit them.
The four screws at the corner of the lens will remove the light. The speaker is bracketed into the front of the truck where they cut the grill, usually pretty significantly.
I'm not sure how effective the lights would be for current warning applications. If they have good bulbs AND good reflector material, they might be usable. The bulbs are "pin style" and run about $15-20. The lamps were often replaced as a whole unit, reflector and all.
The speakers are likely heavy atlas 100 watt drivers with four bolts securing them in their housing. They were kind of a pain to remove, the bolts snap usually.
What other lights are on the ambulance if any? Also the flasher may be in the electrical cabinet still. I cover these flashers around the 4 min mark in this video.
You can separate the bulbs and flash them as a split lighthead. The bumper / pedestal mount for 73/700 series will fit them.
The four screws at the corner of the lens will remove the light. The speaker is bracketed into the front of the truck where they cut the grill, usually pretty significantly.
I'm not sure how effective the lights would be for current warning applications. If they have good bulbs AND good reflector material, they might be usable. The bulbs are "pin style" and run about $15-20. The lamps were often replaced as a whole unit, reflector and all.
The speakers are likely heavy atlas 100 watt drivers with four bolts securing them in their housing. They were kind of a pain to remove, the bolts snap usually.
What other lights are on the ambulance if any? Also the flasher may be in the electrical cabinet still. I cover these flashers around the 4 min mark in this video.
firebuff17
Member
Yea. Looks like twin side beam.
Probably halogen/halogen or halogen/strobe.
How many wires come out of the back of the one you have uninstalled?
Probably halogen/halogen or halogen/strobe.
How many wires come out of the back of the one you have uninstalled?
JohnMarcson
Administrator
They will almost definitely be dual incandescent, you can read the label they say "halobeam incandescent", which was most often designed to be a single head with two bulbs. Usually you have four wires ganged into two wires in a mini or full male amp (strobe style) plug. Each bulb does have its own pair of wires, but they were factory combined for most applications where they were labeled "halobeam", and even more likely wired together when not on the fender. Pretty easy to remove generally unless the ambulance builder or previous owner rewired them.
This is EXACTLY the type of information I was hoping for. I want to take the entire unit out and put them in my tow truck. I already have a code 3 Siren controller that came out of an old fire cheifs truck. It works but I'm a sucker for the "vintage" and "retro" stuff so I'd MUCH. rather make these old units work. I wanna switch the lenses out for amber but the rest I'll keep factory. I want them to work lights, siren. PA If they're capable. I'll need to find a control box for the cab. The guy I bought it from said they took them out years ago and threw them away. He bought 3 of them at auction when the were retired from service in Yellowstone. The truck currently has the grille lights and front fender red lights. I don't see any evidence of a roof mounted light bar. If you have any sort of part numbers or ideas where I can get this stuff I'd be the happiest man alive! Thank you so much!
I had it out today but decided to put it all back as I couldn't get the speaker out. There's just a single 2 wire plug going to the lights. Red/black wires. The siren has a black and a white wire going to it but that's all there is.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
These speakers are very vehicle specific, they offered them by truck model and year. There are 4 major parts; the speaker driver, the light, the mounts, and the metal housing which acts as the speaker housing. I would consider them pretty tough to port over to a new vehicle, but a cool item. The single set of wires for each portion (light and speaker) is pretty standard. You could split the light at the bulbs but I wouldn't bother, the factory combination process makes the connections tight and brittle and they look better grouped. As far as lenses, 7E (a brief version of the 7x3 light in between the 73 and 700) had lenses the same shape and size. The 73 and 700 series don't technically fit. You will need either the correct lenses or 7E lenses. Amber is moderately rare because these were usually red, but they are out there from rear ambulance mounting and a few DOT setups. I have seen some clear lately too.
Ambulances don't really have control boxes in a traditional sense. I am familiar with the national parks type fords (rode in one @ Yellowstone when my parents worked at the park) and they are similar to other federal setups. Most had only box flashers, no lightbars, the sometimes weldon box lights . They had a single primary / secondary switch, flood light switches, a rear module master etc. That powered the lights via the flasher which was triple k style (again the video I posted). They likely removed the siren, and maybe the switch panel, but there wasn't a control box in the standard sense.
The fords transferred well into winter mode (pics below). I'm not sure what year or model the tow truck is, but these were an ambulance builder installed item that wasn't like today's leds; these are essentially part of the truck. I have a few in my collection, it's amazing how different the back mounts are from model to model. I love seeing old tech being salvaged. I'm not sure early 1990s cast CPI ambulance grill units are what I'd use for a tow truck retrofit, but at least they aren't going to the junkyard.
You may spend a bit on lenses, but if it ends up looking right it is worth the wait/hunt. The flasher should still be in the electrical cabinet, but a simple flasher will work fine and is not much of the cost really. Lenses are going to be the cost.
Some lenses:
73 series, right size-ish, bad fit, don't use
7E, fits, but technically not the original, again it will fit
Strobe version, but right lens model. Twin side beam, intersector, mini (not micro) max are all used the "right" lens.
Some Yellowstone Memories
Good luck, keep us updated.
Yes that's what I've seen that they're very vehicle specific. Lucky for me I'll be swapping from the 1991 f350 to a 1993 f350. The grille is slightly different but the radiator support and bumper bracket (which are the 2 points I see my siren brackets mounted) were 99% identical all the way from 1980 to 1997. So bolting them on should be no problem whatsoever. I just need to source any supporting items. As far as I can tell I have the entire wiring harness except where the wires came out of the dash by the glovebox. I see a tiny plastic bracket and a hole that looks like it had wires in it. I see no other place that a switch panel was mounted so I assume that's the place. Any clue where I could find a switch panel? Or do you think I could do a little improvisation? My code 3 Siren controller box has a 100w circuit or a 58w circuit. Could I wire the speakers directly to that? That would make it very easy. But the lights you say any flasher system will work? I have a cheap set of AutoZone strobes in my grille (as pictured) they're led. Could I cut the lights off the ends and splice in the mini halo lights? Isn't there a significant voltage and amperage difference between LED and halogens?
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JohnMarcson
Administrator
This should be correct. The differences can be made up for with simple shop items etc
Ambulances generally have either built in or bolt on consoles, either way they aren't where the real "switching" happens the switches power relays in the electrical cabinet. If the switches were bolt on they may have just pulled the unit off the doghouse. You would have a lot of wires running to and from the electrical cabinet, or they cut that too. Regardless what the ambulance had is not really important to you now.
Example of ambulance integral console switches
Bolt on to the doghouse style console
Electrical cabinet where the actual switching occurs in all cases (this one is newer) but you get the idea.
Each CPI speaker you have is 100watts. So you could wire your 100w siren to one speaker and not the other. Ambulances use two 100 watt speakers, like the CPI ones you have but power them with a 200w siren.
This is where you kinda lost me language wise. The term "strobes" is not another term for all warning lights (it gets used that way). Strobes are very, very specific. Strobes are gas filled tubes powered by a remote high voltage supply that fires them through a 3 wire system. I doubt you have actual strobes (and if so they are 100% incompatible with other lights). If you have LEDs in the grill now, they might (probably not) have sufficient wires to power the halogen lights, but the flashers would either be internal to those LEDs or a remote LED flasher; so if you hooked a halogen light to the wires it wouldn't flash, it would just be on steady or destroy a remote LED flasher. Regardless you aren't going to be able to "splice in" these lights. You need probably 12g wire with a ground to each and another similar wire running back to a halogen light flasher. Something like a tridon alternating flasher would be cheapest. If you want you can use a regular napa flasher 2 prong flasher and add a relay to make them alternate too (diy alternating relay flasher). But you are looking at
Long story short, you have two 100w speakers mounted with two steady burning incandescent light fixtures. You need to wire these as if they are bare bulbs, like turn signals. With old halogen lightheads it is better to forget the concepts used to hook up LEDs (and strobes for that matter) and treat them like turn signals. There is nothing inside of them that makes them flash like LEDs, they don't need a specific powers supply like strobes. The yare just steady burn filament bulbs.
Your siren will power one of the two speakers and it will work well (if you hook it up to both, not so much). You can run similar wire to what is coming off of the speaker now. I will add some pics of my lights metered and hooked to a flasher in a bit.
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JohnMarcson
Administrator
Ok... dug my own out.
Amp draw steady on (newer lamps) 4.23 steady, 4.85 peak startup
Amp draw steady on older lamps, 3.18 steady 3.9 power on
A good flasher for this. It can do 160 watts per side, you would only have 50-60 watts per side at 12vdc.
The amp draw while flashing (not much higher than the highest lamp's steady draw)
Wire size reference. I round up so 14 g wire should be fine.
General flasher setup
Setups for your equipment with a siren
Amp draw steady on (newer lamps) 4.23 steady, 4.85 peak startup
Amp draw steady on older lamps, 3.18 steady 3.9 power on
A good flasher for this. It can do 160 watts per side, you would only have 50-60 watts per side at 12vdc.
The amp draw while flashing (not much higher than the highest lamp's steady draw)
Wire size reference. I round up so 14 g wire should be fine.
General flasher setup
Setups for your equipment with a siren
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FINALLY got some time and motivation to swap the lights over from one truck to the other. Installed the housings with no issues. Even had pre drilled holes from the previous setup when my tow truck began it's life as an ambulance! Wired only one of the speakers up to the 100w circuit of my code 3 siren controller. WOW IT'S LOUD. But when using the PA function it's barely audible over just the sound of my engine idling. Now I'm starting to search for Amber lenses to go in my housings. Would y'all have any ideas where to start looking? I googled "mini max" and "twin side beam" and "7e" with no results. Thank you all for the help with this project!
