Good lights ruined by split flash

zach3713

Member
May 28, 2010
187
Georgia
I agree, the pinwheel has to be the most ineffective i've seen. Also, unsynced also seem to be bad. The lightbar we run at my PD is all random i'm pretty sure, nothing is synced. It's some Code 3 bar, and it's AWFUL!
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
theolog said:
What would you recommend doing with TIR4-type blue/white lights mounted in a pair on the front license plate or front bumber? Slow alternating the whole head? How about the same light mounted on a cage (one each side)? Thanks for your input.

If you mean that each light head is split blue/white...


Honestly I'd trade them for solid blue/white heads. If I had to use them I'd try it a few different ways for comparison. I flash them slow (50/60 fpm) and/or medium (90/100) with one of the following patterns: Single, quad or signal alert. White/blue split heads aren't as bad as red/blue which makes a yucky purple. White/blue and red/amber split heads look much better than blue/red, white/red or blue/amber. If they are split color heads flashing them "solidly" with both colors on usually looks pretty bad... so I'd avoid that.


If the lights are solid colors in each head the choice is simple.... alternate the heads as solid units with one of the above patterns/speeds.
 

bfd740

Member
Jul 4, 2010
285
Babylon, NY
I think it depends on what kind of head it is and where it is.


For example, I have LIN4's in my grille and I have them set to solid moduflash which is a non-sync pattern. I have been playing with them for the last two years to find something that works best, and it seems to be more effective because a synced pattern seems to just blend in with the vertexes in my cornering lights and my dash light. In this application, splitting the heads would make a twinkle effect.


However, having two LIN/TIR style 4-diode lights on a rear license plate bracket in red/blue on a split pattern would look fine because they are contrasting colors and it's not primary warning.


Also, a popular light around here is the 700 series in R/W. As a split head it is very effective.


The 900 series should always be solid; the whole point of it is that is meant to be a big chunk of light on the corner of a box or something like that. The split (top/bottom) ones don't look so bad if they are in different colors and used on the back of something, but not being synced really really annoys me and makes them less effective.
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
For me what seems to catch my eye is a sort of "blinkety-flash" pattern with a few very quick flashes before a longer flash, then repeat with a different light, at about 100 FPM (considering the entire "blinkety-flash thing as one flash) and of course absolutely no split patterns unless you're only using ONE light, preferably split-color as well, but nobody uses only "one" light anymore, so never mind...
 

bfd740

Member
Jul 4, 2010
285
Babylon, NY
nerdly_dood said:
For me what seems to catch my eye is a sort of "blinkety-flash" pattern with a few very quick flashes before a longer flash, then repeat with a different light, at about 100 FPM (considering the entire "blinkety-flash thing as one flash) and of course absolutely no split patterns unless you're only using ONE light, preferably split-color as well, but nobody uses only "one" light anymore, so never mind...

Like SignalAlert (the default whelen pattern) or like action flash where it does 2 comets then the long steady steady followed by the short steady?


My favorite pattern is action flash, but I feel like it looks MUCH better with strobes than LEDs, and I was really disappointed that it's a non-sync pattern
 

dmathieu

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
8,766
S.W. New Hampshire, USA
nerdly_dood said:
For me what seems to catch my eye is a sort of "blinkety-flash" pattern with a few very quick flashes before a longer flash, then repeat with a different light, at about 100 FPM (considering the entire "blinkety-flash thing as one flash) and of course absolutely no split patterns unless you're only using ONE light, preferably split-color as well, but nobody uses only "one" light anymore, so never mind...
Sounds like you're describing Whelen's Signal Alert flash. It repeats at 75 FPM. Very effective!


Dan
 

ranair911

Member
Jun 30, 2010
135
(near Toronto), Ontario
Toronto EMS - Synched with the "blinkety flash" - You can see them a long way off, day or night!


The white does not shut off once they are on scene and can be a but much.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Paramedic

Member
Oct 15, 2010
117
CAN
I'd really like to have proof of the not-certified-ness of the FS pinwheel pattern. We only have two of these heads in the back of our rigs on that pattern, and it's so uneffective it's dangerous. We're trying to convince the bosses but they don't really care...
 
May 22, 2010
787
Columbiana County, Ohio
Paramedic said:
I'd really like to have proof of the not-certified-ness of the FS pinwheel pattern. We only have two of these heads in the back of our rigs on that pattern, and it's so uneffective it's dangerous. We're trying to convince the bosses but they don't really care...

Just pop em off one night and change the pattern... The bosses have more on there plate than 2 lighthead's flash patterns.


On a second note. The Whelen PinWheel on fast looks kind of like a want to be rotoray pattern.
 

Paramedic

Member
Oct 15, 2010
117
CAN
ark_firefighter said:
Just pop em off one night and change the pattern... The bosses have more on there plate than 2 lighthead's flash patterns.

On a second note. The Whelen PinWheel on fast looks kind of like a want to be rotoray pattern.

We have 150+ trucks.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
Total fail.....
 

asweezy

Member
May 20, 2010
217
Wellsville, NY
I think the perfect example is the Austin ambulance they have a solid heads except the 700 series over the rear wheels they spilt then solid much less effective than the others.
 

bfd740

Member
Jul 4, 2010
285
Babylon, NY
asweezy said:
I think the perfect example is the Austin ambulance they have a solid heads except the 700 series over the rear wheels they spilt then solid much less effective than the others.


The 700 series is pretty good split, but just like any split light it has to be different colors. Any split head that is a single color looks like a blur. Heads that are too small look like a blur regardless. The 700 series does it just right.
 

bfd740

Member
Jul 4, 2010
285
Babylon, NY
What was wrong with the setup? The only thing I didn't like is they had the 6-led heads on the top of the rear doors as r/r and b/b splits, which they both should have been r/b or set to solid.


The ghosts in the front were a little much, but keep in mind that it's meant to show an application for some of the newer products at the time the video was made.


I don't care for vertexes used on bumpers/quarter panels for intersections - you need something bigger there IMO, but they do work well if you have 3 or 4 of them on a running board, partly due to the fact that they have a better viewing axis than TIR and LIN style heads.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
The split heads look about as good as they can.... a slow flash pattern flashing like colors together helps a lot..... this is by far not the biggest split flash fail I've seen.
 

Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
I hope this video pisses some of you guys off since you hate the split light heads hahaha

 

Bigassfireman

Member
May 23, 2010
823
U. S. of A. Ohio
Station 3 said:
I hope this video pisses some of you guys off since you hate the split light heads hahaha


Shit, you're going to give these guys a stroke showing them all those split flashes on one vehicle! :eek:
 

rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
That's what all the 900s look like on the new rigs FM Ambulance has. 900s on the side and back all on split random flash pattern. Actually, random pattern all over the truck, including the 700s on the box, the 700s and 400s in the flush mount edge, and the 500s on the grille.


Split sucks ass as it is. Now, stick it on random pattern. Talk about mucho puko. :duh: :duh:
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
Station 3 said:
I hope this video pisses some of you guys off since you hate the split light heads hahaha



Fail.... that number of lights could look so nice flashed solid and synched on a steady pattern ......
 

Dragon

Member
May 27, 2010
52
Mississippi
I half way agree with the thread. I have a set of LX4s on my license plate that are running a split pattern. If you think about it, if you have all four LEDs on the left alternating with the right then dont you have the same amount of light as if you have both lights altenating the 2 pairs of LEDs at the same time? But I am sold. I have a SHO ME11.1005SF flasher that I plan to connect to the two license plate LEDS as well as a pair of TIR6 and a pair of LIN6 LEDS on the back deck. Jsut think that by using a flasher and synching the lights it will be a neater look.


But I also have two stobes and two LEDs in my front grill. I am trying to find a pair of 6over6 400 series LEDs to replace what I have now. So if I run the 400s without splitting them then I just have two big lights. If I split them then I have something a lot closer to what I have but a lot neater. Looks like four lights.


So not sure that split is wrong for every application.
 

theolog

Member
Dec 27, 2010
731
North Carolina
Dragon said:
If you think about it, if you have all four LEDs on the left alternating with the right then dont you have the same amount of light as if you have both lights altenating the 2 pairs of LEDs at the same time?

I could be wrong, but I think that's the whole point; that's not accurate because you don't have the same amount of light, you have half the amount of light twice and it isn't taking full advantage of the optics and the light head's power. It's sort of spreading and diluting rather than increasing light.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
Dragon said:
I half way agree with the thread. I have a set of LX4s on my license plate that are running a split pattern. If you think about it, if you have all four LEDs on the left alternating with the right then dont you have the same amount of light as if you have both lights altenating the 2 pairs of LEDs at the same time? But I am sold. I have a SHO ME11.1005SF flasher that I plan to connect to the two license plate LEDS as well as a pair of TIR6 and a pair of LIN6 LEDS on the back deck. Jsut think that by using a flasher and synching the lights it will be a neater look.

But I also have two stobes and two LEDs in my front grill. I am trying to find a pair of 6over6 400 series LEDs to replace what I have now. So if I run the 400s without splitting them then I just have two big lights. If I split them then I have something a lot closer to what I have but a lot neater. Looks like four lights.


So not sure that split is wrong for every application.


Sigh.......you only have a certian number of diodes/LEDs. It doesn't matter if you flash them split or solid, the number doesn't change. The only thing that changes is the footprint of the light. You are basically making each individual light head half power... so you are cutting the output of each head in half. It doesn't look like 4 lights, it looks like a blur. Even if it did look like four lights.... which would you rather have, 4 dim lights or 2 bright ones. There is nothing wrong with having "just 2 big lights". If you do end up wrecking--......I mean splitting these lights, synch them and flash them slowly.


I guess split is right for some applications....... Like if you want your lights to show up less, or if you care more about how much your setup twinkles and not how effective it is.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
theolog said:
Woo-hoo! I got it right for a change! :haha: :dielaugh:

Hit the nail square on the split flash head. :thumbsup:
 

ffemt045

Member
May 24, 2010
198
belmont NY
JohnMarcson said:
Fail.... that number of lights could look so nice flashed solid and synched on a steady pattern ......

HEY!!!!!!! Thats one of my rigs.......
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
ffemt045 said:
HEY!!!!!!! Thats one of my rigs.......


Well........The first step to recovery from split flash fail is admitting that you have a problem...... :lightbulb:
 

Sigma Safety

Member
May 21, 2010
766
western Canada
I couldn't agree more with this. Note that most of these videos are of the vehicle up close, where warning really isn't that important. You want distance warning. Try one of these "all split heads" vehicles at 500' or something, and they'll appear to be basically a steady burn light.


One thing that most people overlook is dark time. Flashing lights flash to give activity, but for activity to actually happen, the light has to go ON then OFF. Most people think about how they can make more light (that ambulance with waay too many lights, above, is a good example) but forget about dark time. If you have no dark time, then it's a steady burn light.


A good, steady flash pattern at a reasonable rate (not 320fpm or something) is the most effective for recognizeable, distance warning. For stopped vehicles (at a scene) the rate should be much slower (60-120fpm) than when en route to a call. COLOUR does not get people's attention, ACTIVITY does. In your peripheral vision, you don't see colour anyway, but are extremely sensitive to movement. So, for intersection warning, you need lots of activity in a bright source, but colour doesn't really matter. The WORST thing you can do for intersection warning is depend on colour and have little activity or intensity. That said, warning to the rear is a completely different story.


The split heads, especially the smaller ones, don't meet SAE Class 1 when flashed in split mode. For example, a 4-LED head may meet Class 1 when all 4 LEDs light up at the same time, but won't meet it when you split flash them because your peak intensity is not high enough because you are flashing only 2 LEDs at a time, which is not enough for SAE Class 1.


That said, lots of customers ask for a split red/blue because (for police) they want to be "recognized as a police vehicle". For me, I really don't care what they think I am, as long as they don't hit me. I'd rather be visible and mistaken for a fire truck, than unseen.


If you have split lights, try viewing them from a distance and see what you think. I'm betting you'll be surprised at how poor the warning is.
 

Sigma Safety

Member
May 21, 2010
766
western Canada
ranair911 said:
The white does not shut off once they are on scene and can be a but much.

Nice to know that their ambulances don't meet any of the industry standards for warning equipment on vehicles.
 

Dragon

Member
May 27, 2010
52
Mississippi
My next planned project was to add a 11.1005SF LED Flasher - Strobe Style to my rear lighting. In doing so I would need to set my LX4s on the license plate to steady which would get rid of the split pattern. I am preety sure the other 500 series can be set to steady.


Question is what do you think I should do on the rear deck? As set up now the TIR6 on the outside alternate with the LIN6 on the inside. Another split of sorts. Should I keep the TIR and LIN grouped together? Should I let the left side alternate with the right side to get a bigger footprint and not worry about the TIR and LIN burning on the same side at the same time?


ai189.photobucket.com_albums_z43_DragonHunter00_DeckoutsideView1_1.jpg
 

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