Good lights ruined by split flash
- Thread starter JohnMarcson
- Start date
Dragon
Member
Yep sorta an evolving project. I found a deal on a pair of TIR6 and placed them on either side of the brake light. Then I came across a deal on a pair of LIN6. Found out that the surface mounts for the LIN6 were much deeper than the TIR6. I wanted the TIR to the inside and the LIN to the outside but due to the curve of the glass that would not work.
I laid the two side by side on some cardboard and made a template that fit exact. Had a friend cut out two on a CandC machine with hole for the wires, etc. Welded them to a flat stock piece to slide under the third brake light. Painted black and mounted lights. I think I have some pictures that I won’t post here to get too far off topic but I can send if you want.
I laid the two side by side on some cardboard and made a template that fit exact. Had a friend cut out two on a CandC machine with hole for the wires, etc. Welded them to a flat stock piece to slide under the third brake light. Painted black and mounted lights. I think I have some pictures that I won’t post here to get too far off topic but I can send if you want.
Bigassfireman
Member
Here's one for ya, an entire interior bar ruined by split flash. It would be more effective if only half the lights were just left on continuously and nothing else flashed. But when the all of them light up at the end, that seems pretty impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZh_1CGH1_8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZh_1CGH1_8&feature=related
theolog
Member
Dragon said:
You're gonna need to go ahead and start your own thread on that one bro, because I'm extremely interested in this project!
Fast LT1
Member
theolog said:You're gonna need to go ahead and start your own thread on that one bro, because I'm extremely interested in this project!
+1 i'd kill for two of them in R/B
I think interweave fail needs to be added to this thread as well... interweaving red / blue or flashing red blue together at the same time looks so retarded to me... prime example being on this sirennet motorcycle:
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JohnMarcson
Administrator
got_ygurt said:
Also add different colors next to each other at the same time faill.... ie purple blog fail!
WhiteLite03
Member
After reading this thread and seeing some of the examples, I think I'm going to modify my lighting set up on my vehicles. I, like a lot of the people with POV lights, had some of mine on a fast flickering pattern, but after thinking about it, it's really not that effective from far off. Thanks for the pointers guys.
mr. awesome
Member
JohnMarcson said:
or pink blob fail. the only time you should split a head is if the head contains two different colors. also if you have a dual-level head or bar, dont split vertically. bigassfirmean gets a big +1 on that.
nothing is worse than seeing a completely unsynchronized setup as well. that drives me nuts. split head or no split head, it makes me think of one of those cheap-ass china police car toys. its far more effective to have only four heads flashing in sync with each other than eight just firing at random intervals.
another thing, why is it that fast flash patterns are all the rage now? i will notice a slow alternate flash far better than a fast blur. :crazy:
EVModules
Member
Who'd thunk it... My local fire station had their side & front lighting in the split flash! Ugly!!! I think I should join just to sneak in and change the flash patterns. :undecided:
If your gonna do it... Do it right... Either a roto ray or Mars 888 trafficbuster on the front & call it done... :haha:JohnMarcson said:
Eric1249
Member
Our new ladder has a lot of the Whelen spilt heads. And they are set to really flast patterns. Is there somewhere I can find a study to show my chief about patterns?
I prefer fast patterns to the front....especially dual-color systems......heres my last unmarked squad......talon above the mirror, microman bar in grille....sorry for poor quality video
Eric1249
Member
Our newer ladder truck has the Whelen 900? on the rear. They are split top and bottom. Like most of the truck they are on a real fast pattern. There are I believe 4? smaller heads on the side and the same ones above the headlights. (4) I am not sure if they are split as well? I don't believe any of them are synced and a few of them are on different patterns. I wanted to just go ahead and change the patterns today. I would like to try to convince the Chief to just let me change them.
NiftyX
Member
A simple sync'd pattern is WAY more effective. We changed the patterns on our ambulance after we had a few that had a random-type pattern on the lightbar.
Sync'd pattern. Red flashes opposite blue and white.
Sync'd pattern. Red flashes opposite blue and white.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
NiftyX said:
Perfect example of the same lights being a waste vs a very effective setup. Thanks for sharing.
Split flash doesn't necessarily have to apply to a surface mount lighthead. Observe a loaded MX7000 with double-stacked, unsynchronized LEDs on the lower level:
...Now granted, it does include a pair of steady-burning lights, not that you can really tell.
...Now granted, it does include a pair of steady-burning lights, not that you can really tell.
lafd55
Member
JohnMarcson
Administrator
via PM
Right............. that's true. You could have bought two 6 diode lights and mounted them right next to each other instead of one 12 diode head. The issue is that certain lights are a certain size for a reason. Cutting them in half into two smaller lights isn't helpful. Effective warning is based on many things.... on/off time, rate, pattern, color, optics, size, location...etc. Splitting a LED head is at best making it into two smaller ones, and at worst negating the head altogether.
We could find examples of split heads that work and ones that don't. I do assert however that splitting a lighthead reduces it's effectiveness in the majority of cases where as it rarely or never improves it.
obviousmember said:
Right............. that's true. You could have bought two 6 diode lights and mounted them right next to each other instead of one 12 diode head. The issue is that certain lights are a certain size for a reason. Cutting them in half into two smaller lights isn't helpful. Effective warning is based on many things.... on/off time, rate, pattern, color, optics, size, location...etc. Splitting a LED head is at best making it into two smaller ones, and at worst negating the head altogether.
We could find examples of split heads that work and ones that don't. I do assert however that splitting a lighthead reduces it's effectiveness in the majority of cases where as it rarely or never improves it.
Now don't get me wrong, I love the valor, but the majority of the light patterns are horrific. I've seen several PD's use some of the fast random multi color changing patterns and honestly I thought I was about to die. Just to many random blinkies going off to help anything. :duh:
Just to many random blinkies going off to help anything. :duh:Irsh42 said:Now don't get me wrong, I love the valor, but the majority of the light patterns are horrific. I've seen several PD's use some of the fast random multi color changing patterns and honestly I thought I was about to die.
A lot of them are really bad, but I don't mind 6, 8, 13 or 26. I will personally staple your left aorta shut if you use pattern 4 though.
Last edited by a moderator:
CrownVic97
Member
Irsh42 said:Now don't get me wrong, I love the valor, but the majority of the light patterns are horrific. I've seen several PD's use some of the fast random multi color changing patterns and honestly I thought I was about to die.
If I had to set the patterns on this for stationary and primary warning, these are what I'd choose:
Stationary: Patterns 1, 2, 3, or 10 (dwell time is key to catch the eye and make people move around the unit)
Primary: Patterns 8, 13, or 23 (a nice combo of flash rate to not be a psychdelic effect on the sense, just a good ol' "GET OUTTA THE WAY" message :thumbsup: )
foxtrot5 said:
Doesn't sound quite as violent as "I'm gonna rip your heart out" but it'll get the job done just as well.
And the Valor's flash patterns with white IMO aren't as good as the red/blue ones overall. There are a few good ones, but for the most part I'd just go without white. I'd like to see what they've got for the poor single-color users...
JohnMarcson
Administrator
I was driving so I couldn't get a video, but today I saw something that really drove this home for me. A local dept has valors on their new cars and metal rotator MX7000s with halogen flashers and sweeps on their old ones. I was approching at 10 mph and saw the whole scene lit up in purple flood lights. I thought, sweet steady burning. I was wrong. The valor was in full on multicolor fail flash but with an MX parked next to it it looked like it was in steady burn purple. I will not deny the brighnes, but how does this meet SAE standards for warning? Kudos to Federal for making a multicolor bar, but in the wrong pattern multicolor LEDs seem to become flood lights.... On the plus side the same dept has a Valor in red against blue flash pattern/mode and it is spectacular. I am waiting to get a video of the two next to each other.
my assigned car has a valor on it run by a SS3K. it's not the multicolor except for the clear TD. The siren function isn't used, there's a moto sys9000 leftover from from the previous install.... don't ask. With the second row available, the installer programmed a bunch of different patterns, one per button, via the intersection override. I normally run the comet right/left programmed on one of the buttons, alternating the entire red half vs the entire blue half. Big footprint = effective. There's other patterns programmed that look like a purple blob of goo.
tlsee
Member
i think the led diode is what will make the difference. i am not sure if fed/sig has come on board with using luxeon rebels yet but some other manufactures have. to have wild patterns you need something so bright that it will illustrate the pattern correctly and rebels are the only led's i know of beside cree's that will do that. downside is they are state of the art new and you will pay for them. about 2 years ago i received the first rebels i had ever seen, they came to me on a pcb without any magnification. they are the size of a pencil lead, i thought how bright could this be, well 1 rebel is so bright you should never look at it with the naked eye. i couldnt see for 45 minutes afterwords. now i wear sunglasses when i work with those.
EvilPaul2112 said:
I´m curious why...
In my experience, that setup will often appear as a pulsating purple blob, which is far less effective than clear blue/red flashes (result of slower pattern without mixing colors)
Considering that the FedSig Legend is already too bright to be safely used at night, I'd say using those super-bright LEDs you're talking about in a lightbar would be about as safe as a police department's new policy to conduct all traffic stops by shooting the offender's tires.tlsee said:
The split flash lightheads are a waist of money! I would just go with a single flash/single color lighthead.
So, I'm new to this forum and I just ran across this thread. I'm currently looking at lights to put on my POV. I'm looking at the Whelen 4" round interlaced super leds with the clear extended lenses. I was thinking of doing red on top white on bottom with the white driving "steady on" override.. now that I've read through this thread I'm having second thoughts. Any ideas or opinions on having this light with the 2 different colors vs just red with a white "steady on override"? Thanks.
Kd8bao
Member
Dkellam said:
Split color lights are a great option do a tighter budget or limited space. If you so choose to have a dual color light just have the flash pattern slower so the light color change can be registered by the brain. The super fast "split fail" patterns just look like a blob of $hit. Slow it down and sync the lights and they will be great. Any color combo. Good luck
Eric1249
Member
Kd8bao said:
I agree that is you are going to or have to use a split color light use a slow pattern. I have a SNM E6 mini red/red. I have the entire light flash with an external flasher. Maybe once it warms up (below 0 now) I will make a video of it now on a flasher vs a fast side to side pattern. Just like everyone said on here, on a fast pattern it just looks like a blurr and from a distance it jsut gets worse. WE had a fire last night and none of the leds on out ladder are synced and on different patterns and I thought to myself it is easier to ask for forgivness then permission.
My chief really doesnt think the speed or patterns make a difference.Kd8bao said:
Thanks for the response. I think I'm going to go with solid red on each side with the white "driving mode" override. Since I drive a Wrangler, I figure I can somewhat kill 2 birds with one stone and use the white override as lights for offroad use as well, though there will be more added for that, but that's a different forum
Kd8bao
Member
Dkellam said:Thanks for the response. I think I'm going to go with solid red on each side with the white "driving mode" override. Since I drive a Wrangler, I figure I can somewhat kill 2 birds with one stone and use the white override as lights for offroad use as well, though there will be more added for that, but that's a different forum
Just be careful with an override. Make sure they are designed for long burn times. Even tho the lights have steady burn, a lot can't be run for long times.
Check out the Titan series here
http://store.wiredinstallation.com/off-road/
I can offer a discount code if your interested. PM for more details.