Illustrated Guide to Adequate Lighting

[WS224]

While I agree with what you're saying, at the same time intersection warning is still necessary at the nose of the vehicle.

Picture this.


Controlled intersection, no Opticom on the lights...


I'm responding straight ahead, vehicle in the left turn lane, clear straight ahead.


Endanger my crew, my apparatus, and myself further by taking oncoming traffic, or ease out slowly until I have a full view of the intersection and that people have yielded ROW to me....


easy choice.

If you have the green light, I agree with you. If you have a red light, pass on the left - even with the situation you describe above.

 

[Hollywood]

You still don't get it.

In that situation, the rear of he van you see would not be there. That would be the lane for traffic coming the other direction.


Even on 2 lane roads, if you pass on the left, you give the first lanes of cross traffic the best opportunity to see you. Once they do, you ease out and pass the cars stopped to the right of you at the intersection. Now you give the cross traffic coming from the right the greatest opportunity to see you.


This isn't rocket science boys. If you don't get it, you shoudn'tbe driving an emergency vehicle.

Thank you, I'll turn in my commission card first thing Monday morning. Good grief.

 

[WS224]

Thank you, I'll turn in my commission card first thing Monday morning. Good grief.

If you don't understand which direction cars are going at intersections, that would probably be best.

 

[Hollywood]

If you don't understand which direction cars are going at intersections, that would probably be best.

Here's the deal hot shot... cars go both directions, well actually four, at intersections. I think it is common knowledge to pass on the left. That's one of the "duhs" we teach at LEDT and in FTO. That photo, flipped either direction... simply shows why lights installed there are necessary. You can't take a drawing too seriously. You need them front corners, both sides, for both directions of oncoming traffic. I could care less about which side sees me first seeing as how I stay stopped until everyone else has. Really makes no difference if they are to my left or to my right.

 

[runesson]

Ok, these are not GOOD examples to follow, but I´m posting them because they illustrate some issues discussed in the original post


Purple blob:

Low-light dimming:


Crash Witness Says Lights Blinded Approaching Drivers - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports


http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/documents/lodd-stats/lodd-fire-police.pdf (blinded drivers being one of three primary reasons for officers killed on scene)


EDIT: this last part ended up with a thread of its own: http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/too-many-lights-cause-accidents-42203/

 

[nerdly_dood]

Low-light dimming:

Crash Witness Says Lights Blinded Approaching Drivers - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports


http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/documents/lodd-stats/lodd-fire-police.pdf (blinded drivers being one of three primary reasons for officers killed on scene)

This is a big enough deal IMO that it deserves its own thread.

 

[WS224]

This is a big enough deal IMO that it deserves its own thread.

So start one.


In the meantime, I am not suggesting that lights cannot occasionally be blinding, but if your a driver and can't see, you slow down to a point where you can or stop - don't just blindly proceed at normal speed.

 

[runesson]

So start one.

In the meantime, I am not suggesting that lights cannot occasionally be blinding, but if your a driver and can't see, you slow down to a point where you can or stop - don't just blindly proceed at normal speed.

Not the most constructive contribution to this thread, but I´ll give it a reply non the less:


The reason we have increased the output of our lights, is because many drivers don´t pay enough attention! ....even though they should!


Similary; we need to limit the output of our lights, find a balance, an appropriate level, because many blinded drivers don´t slow down enough or pay enough attention! ....even though they should!


People shouldn´t drink and drive! ...they still do and we need to consider that in our operations!


People shouldn´t fight with LEOs! ...they still do and we need to consider that in our operations!


People shouldn´t play with fire! ...they still do and we need to consider that in our operations!


Etc. etc.


I don´t see any reason to debate whether it´s an issue or not: we have reports to prove that it is!


This discussion should be about the amount of lights and how we use them to INCREASE safety in different situations!

 

[BigWil]

You still don't get it.

In that situation, the rear of he van you see would not be there. That would be the lane for traffic coming the other direction.


Even on 2 lane roads, if you pass on the left, you give the first lanes of cross traffic the best opportunity to see you. Once they do, you ease out and pass the cars stopped to the right of you at the intersection. Now you give the cross traffic coming from the right the greatest opportunity to see you.


This isn't rocket science boys. If you don't get it, you shoudn'tbe driving an emergency vehicle.

What about if you approach a two lane one-way road? Then those lights are needed...or going down a city street, and having to cross another street on a stop sign with cars parked along the road? The front intersection light entering any intersection first is a requirement, IMO...it's not just for your regular 4-way intersections, it's for everything else.

 

[PJD642]

...but if your a driver and can't see, you slow down to a point where you can or stop - don't just blindly proceed at normal speed.

The problem with this statement is you're assuming people act in a rational manner all the time. A good portion of them (hell, the majority) will continue at speed, peering through their windshield and trying to figure out what they're looking at while actually driving directly towards your vehicle. As another example of people not acting rationally - how many times have you seen some idiot come to a COMPLETE stop in the passing lane of the interstate when an emergency vehicle approaches them from behind? Happens to me at least once a month....

 

[acala91]

You still don't get it.

In that situation, the rear of he van you see would not be there. That would be the lane for traffic coming the other direction.


Even on 2 lane roads, if you pass on the left, you give the first lanes of cross traffic the best opportunity to see you. Once they do, you ease out and pass the cars stopped to the right of you at the intersection. Now you give the cross traffic coming from the right the greatest opportunity to see you.


This isn't rocket science boys. If you don't get it, you shoudn'tbe driving an emergency vehicle.

This is ridiculous. You are actually saying that even with clear straight lanes you would still go against traffic? Not only is that not possible at a lot of intersections it is stupid and puts everybody at even more risk. Going against traffic should only be done when all other lanes are completely blocked.

 

[WS224]

This is ridiculous. You are actually saying that even with clear straight lanes you would still go against traffic? Not only is that not possible at a lot of intersections it is stupid and puts everybody at even more risk. Going against traffic should only be done when all other lanes are completely blocked.

If you have the green light, I agree with you. If you have the red light, pass on the left. This may come as a surprise, but this method works in conjunction with the concept of other vehicles pulling to the right.

 

[Phoenix_Rising]

Getting to be more of a pissing match than guidelines/tips for adequate use/placement/ selection of patterns and lighthead selections.


Continues like this, perhaps start a new thread in the ring so that we cam focus on the topic a bit more. Just my .02

 

[acala91]

If you have the green light, I agree with you. If you have the red light, pass on the left. This may come as a surprise, but this method works in conjunction with the concept of other vehicles pulling to the right.

You can do what you want but I will not force a car to move or go against traffic when their are lanes clear. Good luck explaining that rationale to the bosses if you get into an accident.

 

[WS224]

You can do what you want but I will not force a car to move or go against traffic when their are lanes clear. Good luck explaining that rationale to the bosses if you get into an accident.

Same to you. There are countless pull to the right and stop laws and emergency driving coarses including NFPA, Police, and EVOC coarses that teach to pass on the left. What coarse or law will you reference that teaches to pass on the right? Seriously - I would really like to know if you have ever heard that taught and can you reference it?

 

[acala91]

Same to you. There are countless pull to the right and stop laws and emergency driving coarses including NFPA, Police, and EVOC coarses that teach to pass on the left. What coarse or law will you reference that teaches to pass on the right? Seriously - I would really like to know if you have ever heard that taught and can you reference it?

I'll reference Florida law and my EVOC course. I was taught that given that situation, that being you have the red light and traffic is stopped in the left lanes, but a lane to the right is clear that you should proceed through the open lane and only proceed against traffic if all lanes in your direction of travel are blocked.


The Florida statutes state that, "Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle...yield the right-of-way to the emergency vehicle and shall immediately proceed to a position parallel to, and as close as reasonable to the closest edge of the curb of the roadway, clear of any intersection and shall stop and remain in position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, unless otherwise directed by any law enforcement officer."





http://www.criminallawyerjacksonville.co/0316.126.html





In my very poor attempt at a diagram, it makes no sense to take the red route and go against traffic or force this car to move when you could take the green route.

 

[WS224]

Again, I will agree if your approaching the intersection and have a green light.


On a red however, I would pass on the left. Keep in mind, on a red, the opposing lanes also have a red, so going into the opposing lanes is not a problem nor unsafe. Also on a red, vehicles going east (north to the top) would have their view obscured by the vehicle in your diagram when passing to the right of it.


Passing on the left gives the people in your direction of travel the opportunity to do what they have been taught their entire driving life - pull to the right and gives everyone else approaching the intersection the best opportunity to see you.


Not busting your balls - just my rationale and the way we're taught.

 

[Phoenix_Rising]

When i Rome I guess opcorn:

 

[WS224]

When i Rome I guess opcorn:

That.....or agree to disagree.

 

[acala91]

Again, I will agree if your approaching the intersection and have a green light.

On a red however, I would pass on the left. Keep in mind, on a red, the opposing lanes also have a red, so going into the opposing lanes is not a problem nor unsafe. Also on a red, vehicles going east (north to the top) would have their view obscured by the vehicle in your diagram when passing to the right of it.


Passing on the left gives the people in your direction of travel the opportunity to do what they have been taught their entire driving life - pull to the right and gives everyone else approaching the intersection the best opportunity to see you.


Not busting your balls - just my rationale and the way we're taught.

Not always will opposing traffic have the red light. The southbound straight and east turn lanes could have a green, and by doing this you also have the east bound traffic that's turning south looking the opposite direction for traffic. If they make the turn south they will most likely be surprised by the emergency vehicle in their lane and both drivers will be forced to react quickly which is not a good thing. It doesn't really matter if part of your vehicle is obscured by the vehicle turning west if your vehicle has adequate lighting

 

[runesson]

OK guys, while there is a lot of useful info in these last posts, if you read the original post, you´re missing the target and hijacking the thread!


Please continue this discussion in a new thread called "how to pass/clear the typical american multi-lane intersection, with/without proper front-intersection warning lights!"

 

[ddemlong]

Got a question. Running a take home CV that has a code 3 excalibur with a mix of LED and halogen. I spent the few bucks on the headliner mount for my S2 to mount it more securely.


So, with a top mount, the headlight mount places it on the upper portion of the windshield mount it on the inside passenger visor clip. I feel on the dash places it too low and even 1-2 inches above the dash surface some light still is obstructed by the wipers. I am thinking for visibility of placing it up higher, either in front of the mirror to not obstruct any more view or using the headliner mount.


Do you think a top mount and dash being closer by using the headliner mount would effect the overall visibility by just blurring them together too much; or would it be more optimal to separate them a bit more by just using suction cups and mounting in front of the mirror?


Just wondering what would be optimal for running code. Since I am HP its 99% hwy work.

 

[JazzDad]

Reviving an old thread.


(String me up if this was spelled out somewhere else. I did search. )

• Assuming you are using red & blue lights. Do you put all the same color on each side? Example: If you have red on the driver's side, do you have red on the driver's side at the high, mid and lower levels? Would you tend to put all the same color on one side if those levels were not synced?
  
• Is it still common to put a different color (than that pointing forward and rear) to the side?
  
• Best dark time ratio? 1:1? 2 light:1 dark? 1light:2 dark? (Assuming the flash rate is not something crazy, like 200 FPM, where you couldn't discern any dark time anyway.)
  
• Last question: Why does Miley Cyrus... never mind, that can't be answered.
  

 

[rwo978]

We generally run R on driver's, B on passenger. However, on the FOP truck I built, I moved some of the heads around to get R & B on both sides. I think it works better this way, but that's just MHO.

 

[CodeMan]

This has to be one of the best threads I've read on the forum.


Thank you Runesson, the information and diagrams provided show more is not always better and what adequate minimal light is needed. Hard to Argue with facts and diagrams.. :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: opcorn:

 

[SEPD_52]

Your car is not a discotech! Keep to slower patterns and sync your lights to give clear and distinct flashes, meaning "on and off" periods.

I totally agree with this statement. What I don't understand is the current trend that is just the exact opposite of this. Almost every single new video posted to the interwebs of an upfit shows multi-color lights flashing simultaneously but alternating colors so there is no off time. Even if the LEDs are not multi-colored up-fitters are having LEDs (even different colors) all simultaneously flash. I just ... don't ... understand this maddening fad. Even the lighting manufacturers in their promo videos are doing this. Does anyone have a thought as to why this is occurring?

 

[RyanZ71]

R&B on both sides is dang confusing and annoying.