Regional Preferences for Siren Tones?

WhelenNDealin

Member
Aug 6, 2017
575
Ontario, Canada
This one's been puzzling me for a little while. Has anyone else noticed if certain regions/municipalities have preferences for tones besides the usual wail/yelp/piercer? I'm not referring to different brands, but tones. For example, in this part of Ontario, you never hear a hi-lo. However, from what another Canadian ELB member told me, hi-lo is indeed used in parts of Ontario. The big example that I can think of is that I've never once heard a Unitrol-style wail in Canada. Not in any of the provinces that I've been to nor resided in. I've lived in New Brunswick and Ontario and have been to almost every province more than once and never once heard that tone. I've only recently heard the Whelen Alternate Yelp on a local FD Command truck, but that's about it.

Has anyone else noticed that certain regions have preferences for different tones or that certain tones are used more in certain regions?
 

soutthpaw

Member
May 2, 2018
135
Sparks, NV
CA requires all tones to be constant but varying. Hence Hi Low is illegal (not a siren tone) according to the law. I know LAFD uses high low air horns on the ambulances but it's a second tone in addition to the siren.
 

FiremanSketch

Member
Dec 17, 2014
212
Lake Arrowhead
Prior to scan-lock sirens & the advent of online buy/sell/trade groups, Unitrols were primarily exclusive to the west coast. GE Powercalls were the go-to on fire apparatus in the midatlantic region, and were also used by Philly PD in the 70s & 80s. I'll also add in Signal-Stat & Scientific Prototypes Mk 5/7/10 used heavily in NY metro in the 80s.

Hope this answers your questions.
 
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Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Where I live, ambulances and fire engines use wail most of the time and yelp when going through a red light. The police usually use wail only. Most of the sirens I hear are Whelen, although the fire department has some older trucks with PA300s.
 

WhelenNDealin

Member
Aug 6, 2017
575
Ontario, Canada
Prior to scan-lock sirens & the advent of online buy/sell/trade groups, Unitrols were primarily exclusive to the west coast. GE Powercalls were the go-to on fire apparatus in the midatlantic region, and were also used by Philly PD in the 70s & 80s. I'll also add in Signal-Stat & Scientific Prototypes Mk 5/7/10 used heavily in NY metro in the 80s.

Hope this answers your questions.

Thank you! It definitely clarifies things, as do all of the replies. Just on account of old COPS episodes filming in California, I always called the Unitrol wail "the American police siren". I also remember the Philly episodes of COPS having a Sergeant using the Powercall. First time that I ever heard the Warble tone and loved it.

Where I live, ambulances and fire engines use wail most of the time and yelp when going through a red light. The police usually use wail only. Most of the sirens I hear are Whelen, although the fire department has some older trucks with PA300s.

It's almost entirely Whelen around here. A couple of the older OPP vehicles here still have Intimidators, but they're getting very few and far between since OPP switched over to Sapphire not too long ago. I believe that it's Sapphire as they're using an 18 button control head with a single button replacing the slide switch. The city police, FD and EMS have all used Whelen for ages although I think that the police used SmartSirens in the very early 2000s. In retrospect, I seem to remember that as a teenager, whenever the police bleeped the air horn at us, it sounded like a SmartSiren air horn.

I don't know what exact systems they currently use, but after posting a thread asking about it, it looks like EMS here uses the 295HFSA7. I think that it's possible that they also use the 295SDA1 as well. I remember seeing a few rigs with a control head that looked like it, but that was ages ago, so my memory of it is a bit spotty. Thanks to help from a fellow ELB member in identifying a siren, it looks like EMS used the SVP SA-441 Magnum prior to that.

As for police and FD, no clue what tones or systems besides them being Whelen. They've upgraded their vehicles and vehicle equipment again and they've always used top-end stuff, so it'd likely be Carbide or CanTrol. They'd be a nice match for FD's Legacies and police's Liberty IIs ;). As for sirens, FD seems to do what it wants, to a certain extent. No Warble tones, but they're the only agency that uses any form of "Alternate" Whelen tone or any of Whelen's other variants of wails or yelps. Alternate Yelp on a command truck and other wail/yelp variants used on other vehicles. As for police, no clue. The wail that they use doesn't sound like the standard Whelen wail. Higher-pitched. I suspect it's one of the Wail 850-1700 tones. The used to use Simulated Mechanical as well as Mechanical Manual Stop. EMS used the mechanical tone around the same time. It was popular in this immediate region in the mid-late 2000s. The police use a different yelp as well, IIRC. Not the Alternate Yelp. Maybe Yelp B or Y225 or Y249.

I've posted video of an cruiser very briefly running its siren. Older video as it's a CVPI with the old style of markings, but the tone sounds the same as what's used now. Scroll to 0:38 to see it. The rest is of the video fairly slow standoff with robots breaking things, ESU officers crowding the Fatal Funnel (they excel at this) and ESU guys breaking things (ditto). A lot of very big guys that a retired Inspector described to me as "cement heads".


Still can't figure out why the Unitrol-style wail doesn't seem to be used in Canada. Maybe it sounds "too American" for police services' liking ;) ?

Aforementioned Inspector told me that up to around 1983-84, the police service in London, Ontario didn't wasn't even issued sirens. They had lighting, but no sirens. This was due to their upper brass all being old officers from the UK that thought them to be unnecessary and "too American". They thought the same about the officers carrying more than six rounds of ammunition total.

Back in the 80's, we went with North American sirens. They had the riot mode which cleared traffic beyond belief.

I saw a YouTube video of an old North American siren. Beautiful old-school sound. Nowadays, I think that the Riot mode would panic most motorists. That or it'd be the only tone that could get them to put down their cellphones. It doesn't sound nice, but I think that's the point. It's like the siren tone equivalent of one mean-looking biker walking through a crowd of people. Everyone's going to move.
 
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Pete L.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,575
Virginia (south/central)
I saw a YouTube video of an old North American siren. Beautiful old-school sound. Nowadays, I think that the Riot mode would panic most motorists. That or it'd be the only tone that could get them to put down their cellphones. It doesn't sound nice, but I think that's the point. It's like the siren tone equivalent of one mean-looking biker walking through a crowd of people. Everyone's going to move.

I do believe the point of turning on the siren is to move traffic, right ????
 
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Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Still can't figure out why the Unitrol-style wail doesn't seem to be used in Canada. Maybe it sounds "too American" for police services' liking ;) ?

Not all Unitrol wails sound the same. In my opinion, the 800 and Omega wails sound okay, but the the 80K wail is a hideous sounding scream.

I saw a YouTube video of an old North American siren. Beautiful old-school sound. Nowadays, I think that the Riot mode would panic most motorists. That or it'd be the only tone that could get them to put down their cellphones. It doesn't sound nice, but I think that's the point. It's like the siren tone equivalent of one mean-looking biker walking through a crowd of people. Everyone's going to move.

I have a Siren Master with the Dominion Auto label (made by North American Signal). I added it to my small collection because I remember the city FD using them on some of their trucks from the late 1970s to early 1990s. I never heard them use the riot tone.
 

WhelenNDealin

Member
Aug 6, 2017
575
Ontario, Canada
About the siren in the video, it's a Whelen, but the wail doesn't sound like their standard wail. Police service here uses two speakers on their vehicles, but it still doesn't sound quite like a standard Whelen wail. Does anyone know if this is one of their other variants or if it's dual-tone with two different wail variants or am I out to lunch and it is the standard wail?

Not all Unitrol wails sound the same. In my opinion, the 800 and Omega wails sound okay, but the the 80K wail is a hideous sounding scream.



I have a Siren Master with the Dominion Auto label (made by North American Signal). I added it to my small collection because I remember the city FD using them on some of their trucks from the late 1970s to early 1990s. I never heard them use the riot tone.

Me personally, I wouldn't call the 80K's wail a hideous scream, but I agree that of the Unitrol wails, it's the weakest of the bunch. I'd say that it's not a dog-whistle like the LTS; it's closer to a bunch of kids all playing a high note on recorder flutes.

Never knew that Dominion Auto marketed sirens as well, even if they were rebrands. That one would be a bit of a rarity, I'd think. It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Dominion Auto equipment. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. I'll now have to get on the hunt for one of their sirens. Looks like a great addition to a collection! Wailer, how difficult to find would you say they are? I definitely want as much CanCon as possible in my collection. I think that the CRTC requires it for warning equipment collections, especially sirens ;).

I do believe the point of turning on the siren is to move traffic, right ????

Unless you're a whacker. In which case it's to try and look cool for your buddies and to attempt to move traffic, only to fail and get pulled over and charged with impersonation. The other exception would be to ruin millennials' video blog posts of them driving and to drown out the latest flavour of the month pop song that totally helped them get through a really rough time in their lives (i.e. not enough likes/followers on social media).
 
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Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Me personally, I wouldn't call the 80K's wail a hideous scream, but I agree that of the Unitrol wails, it's the weakest of the bunch. I'd say that it's not a dog-whistle like the LTS; it's closer to a bunch of kids all playing a high note on recorder flutes.

Actually, the 80K wail reminds me of the 1970s Federal E series PA15A/PA20A, PA200/PA150, etc. The wail rises very fast and falls slowly, and when it hits the high note it's a high-pitched scream that sounds like a little girl running away from a monster in a horror movie.

Never knew that Dominion Auto marketed sirens as well, even if they were rebrands. That one would be a bit of a rarity, I'd think. It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Dominion Auto equipment. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. I'll now have to get on the hunt for one of their sirens. Looks like a great addition to a collection! Wailer, how difficult to find would you say they are?

I remember seeing a Federal WL mechanical siren rebranded as Dominon Auto, so I guess they have been marketing sirens for quite a while. I don't know when they started selling the North American Signal Siren Master electronic sirens or when North American Signal started making them. A North American Signal version would be easier to find than one with the Dominion Auto label.
 
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Doyle257

Member
Jan 13, 2015
658
Cheektowaga, NY
Most of the units in my area(just over the border from you, @ProPatriaNeverPassAFault ) run Wail/yelp/Hyper Yelp, except for the 2 chief (9) buggies in my District, which have a horrific Sound-off Signal Wail/yelp dual tone for the 3rd siren knob position.

There really isnt 1 soul source provider, although SOS seems to be taking over, at least in the Chief, utility, and Light Rescue sector. Local Municipality police have been reusing the same Code 3, Whelen, and Star Signal Siren and Light equipment for the last 15 or so years. They have even have a unmarked Trailblazer with FedSig equipment, including a Rumber.

City of Buffalo & Erie County Sheriff puts whatever they get at the best state bid price in all of their vehicles, and NYSP Troop-A seems to be all Whelen, all of the time. It's rumored they are paying upwards of $4900 for each Custom Liberty they order...
 
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pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
Pro Patria, I think it’s mostly just tradition.
2 that stand out to me are that Virtually all California fire apparatus have the same electronic wails because of their refs, and the Powercall is practically everywhere in MD and many PA suburbs. On the other hand, powercall is rare in other areas like FL, so you’re gonna have a lot of haters b/c they’re not used to it and didn’t hear it growing up.

Elsewhere, I think it’s a fair mix of everything
 
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Doyle257

Member
Jan 13, 2015
658
Cheektowaga, NY
That does seem a little steep for a State Contract lightbar

Agreed. As I said, that is the rumored price. That may be the list price, and the state bid may offer a significant discount.

Essentially my reaction when I first heard that price.

On the other hand, powercall is rare in other areas like FL, so you’re gonna have a lot of haters b/c they’re not used to it and didn’t hear it growing up.
Never heard powercall in my hood growing up, n it's my favorite tone. Lol
 

billyfromhill

Member
Nov 30, 2014
143
Western New York
California is the only place I've seen the Motorola sirens used.

Star/SVP is reasonably popular in Western New York/Finger Lakes because they're a local company. Mostly found on SUVs and sedans that are upfit by local upfitters instead of fire trucks and ambulances made in a larger facility.
 

WhelenNDealin

Member
Aug 6, 2017
575
Ontario, Canada
Most of the units in my area(just over the border from you, @ProPatriaNeverPassAFault ) run Wail/yelp/Hyper Yelp, except for the 2 chief (9) buggies in my District, which have a horrific Sound-off Signal Wail/yelp dual tone for the 3rd siren knob position.

There really isnt 1 soul source provider, although SOS seems to be taking over, at least in the Chief, utility, and Light Rescue sector. Local Municipality police have been reusing the same Code 3, Whelen, and Star Signal Siren and Light equipment for the last 15 or so years. They have even have a unmarked Trailblazer with FedSig equipment, including a Rumber.

City of Buffalo & Erie County Sheriff puts whatever they get at the best state bid price in all of their vehicles, and NYSP Troop-A seems to be all Whelen, all of the time. It's rumored they are paying upwards of $4900 for each Custom Liberty they order...

$4900...



Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! How the heck are these bars configured?! This not only shocks me but intrigues me! I'd guess that they're DUO bars at the least, but $4900?! We're talking Zimbabwe Dollars, right?

I'm surprised that SOS isn't becoming far more popular here. I'm right across from SE Michigan, so SOS is a stone's throw away, so to speak. The nearest town uses Whelen, SOS, Fed Sig, D&R, SWS and a couple of Code 3 bars on their vehicles (emergency and public works). Pretty much everything. Besides a few SWS minibars on some of the power and public works vehicles, the city has exclusively used Whelen for years now. You'll see brand-new Liberties on vehicles like Parks and Rec pickups. Hell, a couple of days ago, I saw a brand-new Liberty on a Parks and Rec minivan. A lot of the city minivans are now using brand-new Justices as well. Given how politics in this city work, whichever department brown-noses the mayor the most gets the nicest equipment, not that any of it is crappy stuff. Now, FD and PD all have high-end stuff. PD canned their Arjents for Liberty IIs and FD's sporting brand new Freedom IVs and Legacies. As for SOS sirens, nothing that I know of, but it's definitely possible that some of the other towns in the immediate region are using them. Haven't been to any of them recently, so I'm not sure. I'll have to go on siren recce next time I'm out to one.

Pro Patria, I think it’s mostly just tradition.
2 that stand out to me are that Virtually all California fire apparatus have the same electronic wails because of their refs, and the Powercall is practically everywhere in MD and many PA suburbs. On the other hand, powercall is rare in other areas like FL, so you’re gonna have a lot of haters b/c they’re not used to it and didn’t hear it growing up.

Elsewhere, I think it’s a fair mix of everything

I think that you're spot-on with the tradition part. It's all in what people get used to. I'm not sure about this at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were provincial guidelines as to allowable siren tones and flash patterns on emergency vehicles, similar to what CA has. I was told that up until the early-mid 80s, there weren't any provincial requirements that police vehicles had to have sirens.

Actually, the 80K wail reminds me of the 1970s Federal E series PA15A/PA20A, PA200/PA150, etc. The wail rises very fast and falls slowly, and when it hits the high note it's a high-pitched scream that sounds like a little girl running away from a monster in a horror movie.

Wailer, your descriptions of siren tones never cease to amuse me, especially the high-pitched ones :D .
 

Doyle257

Member
Jan 13, 2015
658
Cheektowaga, NY
Also very similar to my reaction.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! How the heck are these bars configured?! This not only shocks me but intrigues me! I'd guess that they're DUO bars at the least, but $4900?! We're talking Zimbabwe Dollars, right?

I have NO idea what makes them special. I have not had the opportunity to get close enough to look.

Also, as I said, that is the rumor. it very well could be the list price for a custom configuration from Whelen, and then the NYS Bid price is significantly lower

I'm surprised that SOS isn't becoming far more popular here. I'm right across from SE Michigan, so SOS is a stone's throw away, so to speak. The nearest town uses Whelen, SOS, Fed Sig, D&R, SWS and a couple of Code 3 bars on their vehicles (emergency and public works). Pretty much everything. Besides a few SWS minibars on some of the power and public works vehicles, the city has exclusively used Whelen for years now. You'll see brand-new Liberties on vehicles like Parks and Rec pickups. Hell, a couple of days ago, I saw a brand-new Liberty on a Parks and Rec minivan. A lot of the city minivans are now using brand-new Justices as well. Given how politics in this city work, whichever department brown-noses the mayor the most gets the nicest equipment, not that any of it is crappy stuff. Now, FD and PD all have high-end stuff. PD canned their Arjents for Liberty IIs and FD's sporting brand new Freedom IVs and Legacies. As for SOS sirens, nothing that I know of, but it's definitely possible that some of the other towns in the immediate region are using them. Haven't been to any of them recently, so I'm not sure. I'll have to go on siren recce next time I'm out to one.
Some people, like myself, refuse to use SOS for the soul reason they will not sell to the end user in the US. They only sell to their certified dealers/installers, and their dealers/installers are urged to not sell to the public for private install.
 
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pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
I'm surprised that SOS isn't becoming far more popular here. I'm right across from SE Michigan, so SOS is a stone's throw away, so to speak.

It’s all about the local dealer network & relationships with them. In South Florida, you’ll mostly see Pierce, E-One, & Sutphen. Although E-One and Pierce have facilities here that are a 3-4 hour drive away, ppl buy trucks from Ohio-based Sutphen. The Captain at HQ responsible for all Driver/Engineer training at our dept told me he doesn’t ever see us going to Pierce (my favorite trucks) b/c the local dealer gives horrible service.
In the tri-county area, you mostly see Whelen on upfits b/c that’s what the local upfitter pushes. Brookings HQ is in the same county as their shop but they’re mostly a Whelen shop so that’s what ppl get.
Again, it’s all about local dealerships and their relationships with depts, not geographic proximity.

Some people, like myself, refuse to use SOS for the soul reason they will not sell to the end user in the US. They only sell to their certified dealers/installers, and their dealers/installers are urged to not sell to the public for private install.

That doesn’t sound right. There are many dealers that sell directly to the end user online (for them to install on their own), & I’d imagine that a large portion of their overall product sales are to end users (for POVs) and city/dept fleet garages (where mechanics do the upfittings & are not SOS certified)
 
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Doyle257

Member
Jan 13, 2015
658
Cheektowaga, NY
That doesn’t sound right. There are many dealers that sell directly to the end user online (for them to install on their own), & I’d imagine that a large portion of their overall product sales are to end users (for POVs) and city/dept fleet garages (where mechanics do the upfittings & are not SOS certified)
Could just be the guys ive tried to purchase through were dicks, and wanted to get paid to install
 

WhelenNDealin

Member
Aug 6, 2017
575
Ontario, Canada
Could just be the guys ive tried to purchase through were dicks, and wanted to get paid to install

Just from what I've heard from a few people (and one whacker, but he doesn't count) one of the bigger installers here is an SOS dealer and they allegedly put a bit of pressure on buyers to use SOS for their POVs. As for the whacker, he just asked for a general setup and they went with SOS by default. The other guys all wanted modest installs and this particular install company again put some pressure on them to buy SOS equipment. Said installer has a bunch of big municipal contracts for high-end stuff; almost entirely Whelen. I know nothing about the world of installing/installers except that like anything else, some can be dicks and/or incompetent as hell and/or be crooks. Sounds like this company mostly does big contracts and if someone doesn't want high-end Whelen equipment, they give SOS as their only other real option.
 

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