4 Q's, 4 888's and a roto-ray!!!!

[Snibsey]

That's more of a joke than flawed logic. I believe he was making "light" of the fact that some of the data on slime green was flawed. So by saying the number of wrecks of black trucks were low (obviously the total number in field are low) he was more pointing out that there are other factors than paint color.

He had an interesting sense of humour. I wonder if the city's insurers would share the joke if a claim came in based on 1: the fire department's vehicles are painted black rather than a recognised safety colour and 2: the confusion caused by the sheer number of warning lights on their vehicles.


Lawyers are clever people.

 

[irsa76]

He had an interesting sense of humour. I wonder if the city's insurers would share the joke if a claim came in based on 1: the fire department's vehicles are painted black rather than a recognised safety colour and 2: the confusion caused by the sheer number of warning lights on their vehicles.

Lawyers are clever people.

I see your point, how many RTC has the department been involved in since they painted their trucks black though?


Would I have outfitted the trucks the same way? Probably not. Would I keep the tradition if I was in charge? Unless the community said they don't like it, or there is irrefutable evidence that the current trucks are a problem then no I wouldn't change them. It obviously works for this department and the community.

 

[Torpedo]

Is not Chicago still using red/black split theme? With advances in reflective tapes and lighting I do not see a problem. All pun intended.

 

[JohnMarcson]

You can make an argument that any deviation from a 100% base NFPA paint, stripe and light package could be picked on by a lawyer in some situation.... and I'm sure a good defense lawyer could argue the overall visibility is acceptable due to stripes and lights. Anytime you deviate from industry specs you assume a little risk. Each chief must weigh the risk and benefits of any rig choice... Personally, I wouldn't be incredibly worried about the visibility of Mt. Horab trucks....at least not enough to change them if it were my option. I would add more red to the next truck purchased if it were my choice alone, more out of preference really, but also to get closer to the practical standard set by CFD and other depts running black and red.


The issue I'd be more worried about is wear on the vehicle from excessive electrical load, since KKK and NFPA specs both caution against electrical overload on apparatus. I don't know how these are designed. I would like to think the vehicle has a custom power system that can easily handle the load.


These were well maintained trucks driven responsibly by people trained to do so. That alone is better than some places.

 

[Wailer]

I think the lighting and the paint scheme looks fine, but I don't care for the sirens. Four sirens are overkill.

 

[vbcr1711]

Here is an updated video of walkersville rescue responding.

LOVE that powercall! :yes:

 

[Skip Goulet]

They tryin to burn the Q up? its ineffective if you leave it wound up the whole time, like burnin dollar bills. Jus my 2 cents

When I was just a kid one of the funeral homes put a then-new 1960 Ford sedan-delivery ambulance in service. This would be thier first unit with twin 17 beacons on top with a lightedQ in the center and red 6" Unity lights cowl-mounted. One Sunday afternoon there was a bad wreck in the NW part of town about 2 mi from our house. Four ambulances (that's all that was available) ran on the accident. The new Ford made back to back runs on this accident, and both times he let the hammer down on the Q coming and going.....not letting up on it either way. That was back before people started using twin batteries and high output alternators. I've often wondered how that little Ford handled it all.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I can hardly wait until the mechanical Q siren fad dies out and fire departments go back to using electronic sirens. Even that train horn sounds easier on the ears than the shrill tinny whine of a Q siren.

There's not an electronic siren out there regardless of wattage or output that will outdo a Q or a Super Chief. Nothing but those two move traffic sufficiently. I know you hate the high pitches, so everyone's best bet on that would be using the deep-throated long range Super Chief. As I've mentioned on other threads, Kevin's Super Chief is outselling Qs hands down!

 

[Skip Goulet]

John, maybe you've seen it. There's a pic out there I've seen of a blue Mack firetruck from Mount Horeb that has multiple sirens, Mars lights, PropelloRay lights,etc. I thought it was something else!

 

[Travelin Man]

You can make an argument that any deviation from a 100% base NFPA paint, stripe and light package could be picked on by a lawyer in some situation.... and I'm sure a good defense lawyer could argue the overall visibility is acceptable due to stripes and lights. Anytime you deviate from industry specs you assume a little risk.

NFPA doesn't stipulate what colors are acceptable for fire apparatus, they only state the minimums for striping and lights.


Got black? This Spartan/Smeal has been recently delivered to East Brooklyn, CT.

The issue I'd be more worried about is wear on the vehicle from excessive electrical load, since KKK and NFPA specs both caution against electrical overload on apparatus. I don't know how these are designed. I would like to think the vehicle has a custom power system that can easily handle the load.

The manufacturers are required to submit an electrical load report, and the alternator(s) have to be capable of supporting this electrical load, plus a reserve amount of power. I would guess this rig has either a 430 amp or dual 270 amp alternators.

 

[Bullets]

Another bit of "Fire Truck Chuck"'s logic was that both the chauffeur and officer ought to have horn & siren controls as they both will observe different traffic challenges en route to an incident. On all of FDMH's rigs with dual Q's, the chauffeur and officer have their own pedals to operate the siren on their side of the vehicle, as well as their own chains to honk Grover.

As long as you have an enthusiastic taxpayer base that supports it, a town council that approves it, and can do it at a discounted rate, gussy those rigs up!

If you come to a stop and properly clear an intersection, you shouldnt need dual controls. No amount of lights and sirens should substitute proper driving with due regard for motorist safety. There is no emergency worth killing others

 

[Torpedo]

NFPA doesn't stipulate what colors are acceptable for fire apparatus, they only state the minimums for striping and lights.

Got black? This Spartan/Smeal has been recently delivered to East Brooklyn, CT.








The manufacturers are required to submit an electrical load report, and the alternator(s) have to be capable of supporting this electrical load, plus a reserve amount of power. I would guess this rig has either a 430 amp or dual 270 amp alternators.

At E-One all trucks sold to U S customers additionally had to pass a one hour "at full GPM and all electrical loads on" test as part of the U L certification process. I was tasked more than once with climbing a 110' aerial while it pumped off the tip to replace a fuse in the flowminder gauge(s). I feared that job as I am afraid of heights and as you may well know, those ladders sway and move with the wind and water pressure pushing them around. Hated it, was skeert, all better now!

 

[TheLightFromMars]

You can make an argument that any deviation from a 100% base NFPA paint, stripe and light package could be picked on by a lawyer in some situation.... and I'm sure a good defense lawyer could argue the overall visibility is acceptable due to stripes and lights. Anytime you deviate from industry specs you assume a little risk. Each chief must weigh the risk and benefits of any rig choice... Personally, I wouldn't be incredibly worried about the visibility of Mt. Horab trucks....at least not enough to change them if it were my option. I would add more red to the next truck purchased if it were my choice alone, more out of preference really, but also to get closer to the practical standard set by CFD and other depts running black and red.

The issue I'd be more worried about is wear on the vehicle from excessive electrical load, since KKK and NFPA specs both caution against electrical overload on apparatus. I don't know how these are designed. I would like to think the vehicle has a custom power system that can easily handle the load.


These were well maintained trucks driven responsibly by people trained to do so. That alone is better than some places.

If you can't or hear that rig coming at you while running hot, you have no business driving anyway! FTR I LOVE IT! I can just imagine being at a green light with some idiot texting instead of driving...then coming down on all that emergency equipment at the same time and curing said texter of their constipation problem! (Yes, unprofessional..but oh, so much fun)

 

[crescentstar69]

1956 Ford

 

[Tristar]

1956 Ford

I hope the Roto Rays and the Q are photo shopped. Did the Q even exist when this ambulance would have been in service?

 

[Skip Goulet]

I think the lighting and the paint scheme looks fine, but I don't care for the sirens. Four sirens are overkill.

Four may be overkill, but not three! When my friend had his own ambulance service in Lubbock many years ago, his one and only ambulance was a 1961 long-wheel-based Pontiac ambulance that he bought from Gold Star Ambulance in Clovis, NM. It came with a roof-mounted Q flanked by twin Dietz two-lamp beacons (that looked like Federal 14s) and a Dietz 211WW behind the Q. Now to all this he added: two blue Dietz lollipops between the Q and the front beacons; a pair of red and blue Fireballs over the rear door; a Federal 77GB doubletone siren on the rt. fender and an SA24 siren speaker on the left, which was powered by a Director. I got to make a number of runs in that old beast, but never tried to run all 3 sirens at once. But I would run the Q to clear traffic and follow-up with the doubletone. But the owner liked to put the Director on yelp and then alternate between the Q and the doubletone. One night we made a run in from the local racetrack in the big rig. This was just after he got the big rig so we left my Pontiac ambulance at home that night. Going in he was going between the two big sirens while leaving the Director on yelp as I describe above. No problem getting people out of the way. On this particular run I had left my portable scanner on and I heard a PD unit ask dispatch, "Where's the FD running out southwest?" Dispatch replied that the fire dept wasn't running; so the guy said that he was hearing "all sorts of sirens". Then another unit replied that there was a big coachtype amulance running hot north on Indiana. A third cop chucked and said, "Oh, don't worry, that's just that bunch from the racetrack running in!" I couldn't help but laugh at that ne!

 

[Maxim2Eng]

You can make an argument that any deviation from a 100% base NFPA paint, stripe and light package could be picked on by a lawyer in some situation.... and I'm sure a good defense lawyer could argue the overall visibility is acceptable due to stripes and lights. Anytime you deviate from industry specs you assume a little risk. Each chief must weigh the risk and benefits of any rig choice... Personally, I wouldn't be incredibly worried about the visibility of Mt. Horab trucks....at least not enough to change them if it were my option. I would add more red to the next truck purchased if it were my choice alone, more out of preference really, but also to get closer to the practical standard set by CFD and other depts running black and red....

These were well maintained trucks driven responsibly by people trained to do so. That alone is better than some places.

The video is an heartfelt tribute to a man who was, clearly, highly regarded by his colleagues, and It seems they have all the equipment needed to do their jobs well. If they want to add bling to their apparatus--let 'em have at it!


Regarding color, as long as they meet highway regs for lighting, striping, etc., color is irrelevant. Otherwise every big rig on the highways would have to be an "approved" color (and we may be headed that way some day). DuPont's "lime yellow" was based on research as to how the human eye perceived objects in low light situations. This was before ScotchLite had any practical automotive applications. In headlights at night, red is virtually indistinguishable from black--and actually indistinguishable if the viewer is color blind.


The color red in the fire service is based solely on tradition. 19th century fire companies would decorate their rigs and wagons in bright and/or garish colors for public parades--red being the most popular color (Fire Engines, Firefighters, 1988). And the tradition continues in Madison, IN where they still paint their apparatus red, red/white, red/black, yellow, green (dark, metallic!) and blue.


http://www.indianafiretrucks.com/Region.aspx?County=Jefferson&Region=SE


IMHO, two technological advances in the past 30 years have improved firefighter safety immensely, SchotchLite and LED warning lights. I remember in the 60s, you only had to hear a siren and you pulled over before you saw any light. In today's soundproof cars, you have to have dual tone sirens and growlers and lights out the wazoo...a Q or two wouldn't hurt either, as long as it meets regs.

 

[Wailer]

I hope the Roto Rays and the Q are photo shopped. Did the Q even exist when this ambulance would have been in service?

The Q series was introduced in the early 1950s. Q sirens were quite common on ambulances built from the late 1950s on up to the early 1970s. In those days it was just as much an ambulance siren as it was a fire engine siren.

 

[Skip Goulet]

If you come to a stop and properly clear an intersection, you shouldnt need dual controls. No amount of lights and sirens should substitute proper driving with due regard for motorist safety. There is no emergency worth killing others

I agree whole-heartedly with that! In the 22 years that we operated in Lubbock we never had a moving accident in an ambulance. When approaching an intersection, whether the light was green or not, I would slow almost to a stop, and then stop if necessary, before going into the intersection. A friend of mine who had the first black ambulance service in Lubbock exclusive of a funeral home operation, had a big '61 Pontiac ambulance that I've mentioned on other threads. He helped us cover our racetracks in the early days. He was also a cop at Texas Tech, and on weekends that he got stuck with duty I'd go over and getthe big Pontiacto take to the races. I liked driving it better than the shorter Pontiac ambulance we had. On one Saturday night he and his wife needed to go out, so my crew chief and I went over to cover for him. We got a late-night call on a fight victim on the north side of town which was mostly Hispanic. At one busy intersection (even for that time of night), I approached the intersection slowly with the big Q wound up. I had momentarily glanced to the right and saw a Lubbock PD unit approaching on the right. I thought at first he would hold the intersection for us, but he didn't. But he happened to be at the scene of the fight, where the victim had already left by private vehicle. Later on he would run into my friend, Henry, who owned the big ambulance and asked him, "Who's that little white guy who drives for you?" Henry told him who I was and the guy exclaimed, "That little guy sure know how to handle that amb'lance." He went on to say that when he came up behind me that the thought about holding the intersection but realized I had it under control when he saw "that little head bobbing up and down in all directions", so he went on to the scene. Oh well!

 

[Skip Goulet]

1956 Ford

The Q came out c.1951. That's the earliest I've seen. I've seen pix of this Coulter's ambulance before, and I've often wondered how they powered the Q, twin beacons and twin RotoRays.


I mentioned Thomas' '60 Ford with the twin beacons and Q. But their backup was a '57 Plymouth wagon. It had a Q, four Unity red lights (two on each side of the siren) a 17 beacon behind the Q and a Mars FL8 on the rt. fender. While this was quite spectacular in its day, they didn't have a proper electrical system, and on a run from town to the airport (about a 10 mi run) on a multiple vehicle MVA, the wiring caught fire under the hood on that Plymouth. After that they only ran the two outboard red flashers and the beacon.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I've seen two ambulances with more than one Q. One I've mentioned on other threads here. It was a 1966 red and white Pontiac wagon that was built for the Longview, TX FD, whose chief specified 3 Qs and five Dietz 211 beacons. And the chief wanted all 3 Qs to have different pitches, so it took the ambulance builder, Gordon K. Allen Co., forever to get 3 Qs the way the chief wanted them. The car was eventually traded back to G.K.A. and the two "extra" Qs were removed. It was later bought by Gold Star Ambulance in Clovis, NM, and I got to go on a couple of runs in the car, but just with the single Q.


In 1969 Griffin Ambulance Service in Hobbs, NM suddenly exited the ambulance business, dumping it all in the Hobbs F.D.'s lap with almost no warning. Hobbs FD ordered two lowtop Suburban ambulances from Gordon K. Allen, but in the meantime they leased a '64 Chrysler station wagon conversion from G.K.A. This wagon came with twin red 17s on the front corners and blue 174 over the tailgate and a pair of red lights on the bumper. The strange thing about this wagon was that the original luggage rack had been retained. On each side of the rack two large square plates were mounted and braced to the roof. On each plate was mounted a Q siren. I saw that wagon run into Lubbock once. I heard it long before I saw it and thought the fire dept was running until it rounded the corner. Oh what a noise!


One last story about Henry Jackson's big '61 Pontiac. In the spring of 1971 the small town of Hereford, TX was hit by a tornado. When we got the call we called Henry to see if he could run. We had planned on responding with his ambulance and our '63 Consort ambulance, but before we could get out of the drive the fluid line to the tranny popped loose, so we left the Consort and we all responded in the big Pontiac. After we made it thru Plainview and had turned back west to head towards Hereford we had one small town to go through. Being late at night Henry was just running the overheads; but coming through this small town a car pulled right in front of us, so Henry let loose one long blast on the Q, and the guy scooted over. So we continued on our way; but suddenly Henry looked in the rearview mirror and went "What the hell...?" We looked behind us and there were all sorts of POVs running with red lights coming up behind us. Seems that his single blast on the Q called out the volunteer fire dept!

 

[Wailer]

In today's soundproof cars, you have to have dual tone sirens and growlers and lights out the wazoo...a Q or two wouldn't hurt either, as long as it meets regs.

Then there's the problem. Cars should not be soundproof.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

LOVE that powercall! :yes:

Notice how inadequate those LEDS are flashing strobe style on the modular box, that's why I'm a proponent of flashing LEDs with standard flash patterns- longer on-time and slower flash pattern.

 

[Skip Goulet]

Then there's the problem. Cars should not be soundproof.

I agree with that whole-heartedly. I've seen more than one dipshit kid pull in front of us when we were on a run and the kid had headphones on! I don't know what has happened to the project, but I used to hear that they were trying to develop a transmitter that would interrupt the car's radio and/or stereo system when an emergency vehicle approached. Sounds like a good idea!

 

[Skip Goulet]

I just happened to re-read one of my posts above and realized that I left out something on ambulances with more than a single Q. A friend of mine has a video out of 16mm newsfilm that he has adapted to VHS and DVD. It is of ambulance calls....mostly bad wrecks...that occured in Corpus Christi between 1962 and 1972. Some of the footage is b/w and other is color. No sound!


Since such a long time range is involved, you can see a lot of station wagons, Consort-type coaches and Suburbans. Since the footage ends in 1972 there are no modular or van ambulances in the footage.


But one ambulance that caught my eye was a '63 Chevy wagon that sported twin Qs side-by-side and four beacons! I would've liked to have seen the power plant on that car!


One of my favorite station wagon ambulances from that era belonged to Callaway-Jones Funeral Home in Bryan, TX. It was a '64 Mercury wagon. It had a B&M CS8B siren front center and was flanked by a pair of red Mars FL8s and had a clear-domed Sireno hill light behind the siren, and it had a pair of red Unity lights on the bumper. Not too fancy but spectacular!

 

[zakovermyer]

Well... at least my video is getting plenty of views!


For all those that are bashing Mt. Horeb, they really aren't how you think. I had the opportunity to get a tour and photograph most of the apparatus. One of the nicest stations I have been at. Not necessarily the building itself, but the tradition and history, as well as the members that were there. Very welcoming. The whole station is like a museum with lights, sirens, beacons, galore! Plus plenty of old equipment and toys. The trucks are flashy and functional. The extras were donated by the chief or from private funds.


Also, did it ever occur to anybody that they don't use all four sirens at once?

 

[NoVAFed]

The reason FDMH's rigs are black is because Chuck reasoned (back in the early '80's when red vs. slime was still a subject of debate) that he never heard of a black colored fire engine getting in a wreck. FDMH calls the color "Safety Black"

Flawed logic from the chief of the MHFD.


If no one paints their appliances black then it's unlikely they are going to be involved in an RTC (road traffic collision).

We like to call that Sarcasm over here. Damn funny too!

 

[NoVAFed]

You can make an argument that any deviation from a 100% base NFPA paint, stripe and light package could be picked on by a lawyer in some situation.... and I'm sure a good defense lawyer could argue the overall visibility is acceptable due to stripes and lights. Anytime you deviate from industry specs you assume a little risk. Each chief must weigh the risk and benefits of any rig choice... Personally, I wouldn't be incredibly worried about the visibility of Mt. Horab trucks....at least not enough to change them if it were my option. I would add more red to the next truck purchased if it were my choice alone, more out of preference really, but also to get closer to the practical standard set by CFD and other depts running black and red.

The issue I'd be more worried about is wear on the vehicle from excessive electrical load, since KKK and NFPA specs both caution against electrical overload on apparatus. I don't know how these are designed. I would like to think the vehicle has a custom power system that can easily handle the load.


These were well maintained trucks driven responsibly by people trained to do so. That alone is better than some places.

You can do everything 110% by the book, follow every rule and sniff test out there and the second something happens, some lawyer somewhere is going to file a lawsuit. You'll be second guessed for years. So we all just have to charge ahead and do the best we can. I think the red stripes just jump off that black truck and say "look at me." No problem. As to lighting, too many, too few, too fast, split fail, we could be shooting lasers off our vehicles and some self-absorbed mouth breather will fail to see us and turn a good day into a bad one.


Humans are the most dangerous and stupid things walking around out there and those of us in public safety just have to deal with it.


Bitter much? Yeah, guess I am. Glad the week is over. Everybody stay safe.

 

[Skip Goulet]

You can do everything 110% by the book, follow every rule and sniff test out there and the second something happens, some lawyer somewhere is going to file a lawsuit. You'll be second guessed for years. So we all just have to charge ahead and do the best we can. I think the red stripes just jump off that black truck and say "look at me." No problem. As to lighting, too many, too few, too fast, split fail, we could be shooting lasers off our vehicles and some self-absorbed mouth breather will fail to see us and turn a good day into a bad one.
Humans are the most dangerous and stupid things walking around out there and those of us in public safety just have to deal with it.


Bitter much? Yeah, guess I am. Glad the week is over. Everybody stay safe.

Whle there are a lot of lawyers out there that would be all over themselves to get such a case, the reality is that very few cases involving emergency vehicle collsions actually go against the emergency vehicle operator or their department. Yes, there are some cases where that jurisdiction has lost, but those are few and far between. It's just sooo hard to prove negligence against an ambulance driver who's trying to get someone to the hospital in a hurry....especially if they're working a code.


I made the comment in another thread that back in the '70s when almost every trip to the hospital was still an automatic code 3 run, I heard of an incident that involved a friend of mine who drove for an ambulance co. who had the city contract at the time. In his case he was running close to 50 mph on a city street that was well-congested for the time of day and broke an intersection without slowing down first. His unit got hit and he had relatively minor injuries. There were also other minor injuries in the accident; but he wasn't charged. While I am sure there have been some cases here in Texas, I am not aware of a case where the ambulance operated was cited, much less convicted. One thing that Texas is strict about is the law concerning right of way for emergency vehicles. And unlike some states, this includes volunteers who run in their POVs. In Texas motorists are required to pull over and stop for emergency vehicles displaying red lights and sirens. At one time the use of red lights only was allowed, but there were increasing numbers of volunteers running 'hot' in their POVs having accidents because they ran lights only, so Texas now requires both lights and sirens for vollies responding in POVs. Almost every accident involving emergency vehicles in Texas, whether ambulances, police or fire, the citations have gone to the driver who struck the responding unit. They are cited for "failure to yield right of way to an emergency vehicle." There may well be some pending cases here in Texas where the emergency vehicle operator has been charged, and the way things go nowadays I wouldn't be surprised, but thus far I'm not aware of any. Sooner or later, though......!

 

[zakovermyer]

This truck was put up for sale...


2006 Spartan/CustomFire


2000/1000/30


And it's only $475K! :bonk:


2006 Custom Fire / Spartan Custom Rescue Pumper

 

[Skip Goulet]

This truck was put up for sale...
2006 Spartan/CustomFire


2000/1000/30


And it's only $475K! :bonk:


2006 Custom Fire / Spartan Custom Rescue Pumper

I wonder how these guys sell anything with the prices they have. I took a peek at their rescue/squads/ambulances page and they were out of sight.The cheapest thing I saw was a pretty blue Type II Ford ambulance for $7500, but it had almost 200K on the odometer.

 

[Travelin Man]

I wonder how these guys sell anything with the prices they have. I took a peek at their rescue/squads/ambulances page and they were out of sight.The cheapest thing I saw was a pretty blue Type II Ford ambulance for $7500, but it had almost 200K on the odometer.

Having worked with James and Joey at BMFA for many years, I have a little knowledge on this. I know that they're one of the most successful retailers of used apparatus in the US based on the fact that you'll never meet nicer people who run a faith-based business, along with the fact that their prices reflect fair market value.


I know you've been involved with emergency services for some time, but I don't know how much you've been involved in purchasing recently. Our pumpers at work are north of the $510k mark, and we don't run foam systems, generators, or rescue bodies (although we do have LED light towers).


Another thought about BMFA is that some of the rigs you see on their site (mostly older rigs) are being brokered, so those prices are set by the owner of the vehicle, not the BMFA staff.

 

[Tristar]

Two of the "Qs" are covers over BP100s. The fact that two are still mechanical is astounding though.

This isn't a new concept...Here's a photo of a FDMH engine from the 1950s or 1960s. Notice the two sirens mounted over the windshield!...Just kidding, it's a photo of a York, PA engine. I found it on CentralPAFire.com

 

[Skip Goulet]

Having worked with James and Joey at BMFA for many years, I have a little knowledge on this. I know that they're one of the most successful retailers of used apparatus in the US based on the fact that you'll never meet nicer people who run a faith-based business, along with the fact that their prices reflect fair market value.

I know you've been involved with emergency services for some time, but I don't know how much you've been involved in purchasing recently. Our pumpers at work are north of the $510k mark, and we don't run foam systems, generators, or rescue bodies (although we do have LED light towers).


Another thought about BMFA is that some of the rigs you see on their site (mostly older rigs) are being brokered, so those prices are set by the owner of the vehicle, not the BMFA staff.

You're right, I've been away from the purchase of new equipment for some time. There's a website that caters to used ambulances that I see every so often, and the idea that an ambulance can cost over $100K just bowls me over! In the early '70s when the first Type IIs came out they were priced at about $12,000, and some of my friends at the contract private ambulance service at the time were totally aghast at that price. Now that wouldn't make the down payment.


But I successfully ran a small semi-volunteer standby ambulance service for 22 years, as I've probably mentioned, and by the time we shut down in 1991, the most we every paid for a decent used ambulance was $1500. I "lucked" into two neat coach-type ambulances: both short-wheel-based models for $100 each back in the '70s, and you'd be surprised at the good service we got out of both of them. In 2002 I got back into the standby work and spent $5000 for two decent used Type IIs, and I thought that was a chunk. I had to give it up due to ill health in '05. Now when I look at ambulance prices, it really makes my head spin (and I'm dizzy enough w/o making it worse).

 

[Timoteus]

You're right, I've been away from the purchase of new equipment for some time. There's a website that caters to used ambulances that I see every so often, and the idea that an ambulance can cost over $100K just bowls me over! In the early '70s when the first Type IIs came out they were priced at about $12,000, and some of my friends at the contract private ambulance service at the time were totally aghast at that price. Now that wouldn't make the down payment.

But I successfully ran a small semi-volunteer standby ambulance service for 22 years, as I've probably mentioned, and by the time we shut down in 1991, the most we every paid for a decent used ambulance was $1500. I "lucked" into two neat coach-type ambulances: both short-wheel-based models for $100 each back in the '70s, and you'd be surprised at the good service we got out of both of them. In 2002 I got back into the standby work and spent $5000 for two decent used Type IIs, and I thought that was a chunk. I had to give it up due to ill health in '05. Now when I look at ambulance prices, it really makes my head spin (and I'm dizzy enough w/o making it worse).

Keep in mind that inflation distorts picture quite alot. For example $12,000 in 1970 is about $70,000 today. Ofcourse that alone doesn't explain everything.

 

[Phillyrube]

I wonder how these guys sell anything with the prices they have. I took a peek at their rescue/squads/ambulances page and they were out of sight.The cheapest thing I saw was a pretty blue Type II Ford ambulance for $7500, but it had almost 200K on the odometer.

There was/is a fire company in NE Pennsylvania that will sell you any truck they have in the barn. The station is like 14 bays long. Trying to find it now, but it's been a while.


Ah HA!!! I remembered!! Wellsboro Fire Co. Here is a link to an old Fire Chief Magazine article about them. I guess they have no internet that far north in PA, they don't have a website:


Firetown U.S.A.: New and Improved | mag content from Fire Chief

 

[Blaine B.]

I am not a fan of dual-tone sirens or running two separate sirens on the same vehicle.


Whenever I have heard it, I first assume that two vehicles are headed in my direction.


It is a bit confusing.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I am not a fan of dual-tone sirens or running two separate sirens on the same vehicle.

Whenever I have heard it, I first assume that two vehicles are headed in my direction.


It is a bit confusing.

If that sort of thing bothers, you would've cringed at the ambulance I worked out of back in the '70s. I've mentioned a number of times on here about my standby service. Well, in 1971 roughly, a black friend of mine bought a '61 full-length Pontiac coach-type ambulance to serve his part of the community. At that time there was a single private ambulance co. and one funeral home still in the ambulance service. The funeral home had the city contract, but by that time had begun to refuse calls in the predominantly black part of town. The private co. had no problem in responding, but they only had 3 ambulances to help cover their share of a population of close to 170,000 at the time. So my friend bought his "big rig" just at the right time, and for only $500, at that.


The Pontiac came with a roof-mounted Q flanked by two Dietz two-lamp beacons that resembled Federal 14s, and behind the Q was a Dietz clear-domed "hill light" beacon. Well to this package he added a doubletone siren to the right fender, and electronic siren speaker to the left fender, powered by a Federal Director. And as to lights, he added a pair of blue Dietz lollipops between the Q and front beacons and a pair of red and blue Fireballs over the rear door. Fortunately the old beast came with twin batteries.


In an effort to help him get his service up and running, "on paper" our '63 Pontiac Consort ambulance became his second-out unit and his bright-and-shiny red Ford wagon was the 3rd unit.


Whenever he ran Code 3, he'd start by winding up the Q all the way and then let it began its long rolldown. At that point he'd let loose on the doubletone siren with the Director running on yelp the whole time. I went on my share of runs with him in that old beast, and on occasion got to drive it: and that was a treat.


Now this guy's "full time" was job was as an officer with the Texas Tech police dept; so on a Friday night if he happened to be stuck on duty I'd go over and pickup the big Pontiac and take it to the car races. The crowds always liked the light display from that rig.


So one night we had the big Pontiac at the races and actually had to transport. Going in to the ER I was running the Q in heavy trafic with the Director on yelp. But once we cleared the last major intersection I let the Q start its roll down and used the doubletone for lighter traffic. A buddy of mine heard the following on his scanner: "District 8 Lubbock, where's the F.D. running out south?" Dispatch replied that the FD wasn't running. And District 8 said that he heard "all sorts of sirens" going on the south side. Another unit told him that "A big old ambulance was all lit up and heading north on Indiana (the route to Methodist ER).


So the kicker was from another unit: "Oh that's just Skip and his bunch running in from the races. Don't worry 'bout it." Arggggh!


If two sirens bothers you that much, you would've flipped out over this one!

 

[Skip Goulet]

This isn't a new concept...Here's a photo of a FDMH engine from the 1950s or 1960s. Notice the two sirens mounted over the windshield!...Just kidding, it's a photo of a York, PA engine. I found it on CentralPAFire.com

If I'm not mistaken, there's a thread on the Fire/EMS Media forum that shows an old American-LaFrance pumper that has one siren over the windshield and another mounted right in front.

 

[Blaine B.]

That sounds horrible!


I think having dual speakers and 200 watts of output from a single siren is a much better use of a second speaker, rather than having two sirens running two separate tones on two separate speakers of 100 watts each.


I don't know what the idea is or thinking behind two separate electronic sirens on the same vehicle. If you can't hear one because your stereo is up too loud, you certainly won't hear two. Unless its a mechanical "Q" or a Warbler vibrating siren!


And, like I said, the thought of two vehicles actually being just one from hearing two sirens from one vehicle.


Not that it causes any problems or anything, but it just seems odd.