Another Triple Threat

[shibby1952]

So... I did like I said I would, and I went out to Ohio to pick up another Code 3 "Triple Threat". I decided to drive because of what it cost to ship the 'four alarm" I recently acquired. Well after it was all said and done, it was almost a wash. That is assuming that my time is worth nothing.
I had to drive my truck, because this bar will not fit in my car. So the fuel bill for the trip was $197.00 to go out and back. That is at about $2.00 a gallon. Now Indiana and Ohio have this great thing called the Turnpike. And they consider it a privilege for you to use it. So Indiana charges $8.20 each way, and Ohio gouges you at a whopping $14.25 each way for a simple two axle vehicle. Oh yeah, and Illinois got me for a couple of bucks over by Chicago. So just in tolls, I spent $47.10. So the total cost for the trip (not counting the oil change I had to do when I got back) was $244.10 AND 22 hours of my time. So should I have shipped it? Maybe. Depends on what a person thinks their time is worth. In the end I think I only saved maybe $100.00. But at a cost of a whole day of aggravation. So maybe the outrageous shipping charges, really aren't all that outrageous. Unless what you want is nearby.
In any case... I went out to the Sebring volunteer fire dept. in Sebring, Ohio and I brought this bar home. All clear "triple threat" with double stingers and red seal beams. Cool enough already I think. BUT... I found out it also has "select alert" on all 6 rotators. I know NOTHING about this system, or how it is supposed to work.
I have some wires, that turn lights on and rotate. I have other wires that just turn lights on without rotation. So does anyone know how this is designed to work? And can it be turned on and off? Any insight into this system would be greatly appreciated. I have had about a dozen Code 3s come through here, and this is the only one I have ever seen with this set up. Can anyone explain it to me on about a 1st grade level?

 

[lotsofbars]

Great score. The first thing I'd do is do as many combinations of wires as you can think of to see if anything makes it do something cool. If that doesn't work, then scour the internet. I've never seen a Triple Threat that had interesting light-only functions and nothing else. If I recall correctly, the Triple Threat Select Alert outboard rotators had three bulbs in a triangular configuration instead of the standard two parallel bulbs.

Regardless of what it is or isn't, that's a great bar that I'm very envious of because this is the exact C3 bar that I've always wanted (Stingers and all) that I've either never been able to find, afford, or fit into my living room. So it goes!

 

[toon80]

If I recall correctly, the Select-Alert function will make all rotators spin, but the rotator pods will only allow the lamps to flash in certain directions. Those directions were customizable by Code 3 in many ways, as I recall. The could make any pods as requested do the select-alert.

For instance, only the outboard pods lighting in 360 while the other pods rotates but with the lamps off.
Could also be the outer pods lighting be on only when the pods were facing 45 degrees off-angle from the back. (I.E: If 000 is the front and 180 the back, the pods would be on from 135 to 225 degrees).
I have heard of other select-alert bars where all 4 pods were ON on the full half-back rotation, but OFF when on the front half-front rotation.

As for the 3 pods on the end, these were I think only for the Night-Probe option, which was the outer 3rd bulb being used as an alley lamp.

The aim was to save voltage when full-tilt warning was not necessary and I guess be a rubber-necker avoider like the front cut-off mirrors on the Jetsonics.

Last, this was achieved by using different patterns on the contact plates under the pods carriage, and diodes in the pods lamp connectors. Motor would always be ON I think, and the wires activates its own contact plates, hence allowing the different "lighting zones".

If you go in the catalog section by Code 3, you willl find some brochures there with Select-Alert features. Member "drb" here also have some select-alert stuff. He would be of help, I'm sure.

Like lotsofbars said, try different wires and see what turns up. That bar is wicked nice, I love it

 

[JohnMarcson]

These large bars were rarely select alert. You should only have grounds and powers (maybe speaker wires). Eliminate speaker wires by looking under the grills at the color wires attached there. Then trace and attach the ground(s) then apply 12v one wire at a time. In theory the center section, outer sections and stingers are all on separate wires (the two I have had were this way). More than likely if you have lights and no rotation you either have insufficient power or something is locked up somewhere.

below is the obligatory video of mine struggling to run on a 55 amp supply.

 

[jph2]

Nice find! Looks to be in pretty good shape from the pic; hope it's good inside, too. Looking forward to hearing how it goes with the Select-Alert.

On the bright side, you had total control over the way it was treated from the minute you bought it. When it gets shipped, all you can do is hope until you open the box. That probably made the trip worth it.

 

[shibby1952]

I have taken the lenses and the bulbs out, and I am not really sure what I have here. I know this bar came off a rescue truck of some sort with a box like an ambulance. So there would be no need for rear warning- which is why I initially suspected it was just select alert with cutoffs to the rear. But now I wonder if this bar is equipped with "Nite probe" in conjunction with select alert. Here is a link to an old thread showing a bar that supposedly had both:

http://www.elightbars.org/forums/threads/just-picked-up-this-code-3-bar.54987/#post-507047


If you look closely at the rotators in that thread, the inboard rotators were select alert and the outer rotators were nite probe according to the owner. The difference being that on the outer rotators (nite probe), there is an extra electrical junction block mounted on the front side of the rotator that the inboard select alert rotator does not have. Now my rotators are all 2 bulb. BUT every rotator assembly has a pair of diodes soldered in on the contacts, and every rotator I have also has that extra junction block mounted in front.

All my drive motors work, using certain wires. But I also have wires that light bulbs but cause no rotation. So is this night probe? I will also say, that even though the majority of bulbs in this bar are RED, I did have one bulb on each side that was white. The weird thing though, is that I cannot figure out how to position the white bulbs to face any specific direction before powering just the light circuit. The wires just seem to randomly light the bulbs in whatever position the rotators happen to be in. So I don't know. This thing has me stumped. So for now, I am just going to disassemble and clean everything. Then just put it back together and see what it does. It is equipped with something odd- that much I am certain of.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I have taken the lenses and the bulbs out, and I am not really sure what I have here. I know this bar came off a rescue truck of some sort with a box like an ambulance. So there would be no need for rear warning- which is why I initially suspected it was just select alert with cutoffs to the rear. But now I wonder if this bar is equipped with "Nite probe" in conjunction with select alert. Here is a link to an old thread showing a bar that supposedly had both:

http://www.elightbars.org/forums/threads/just-picked-up-this-code-3-bar.54987/#post-507047


If you look closely at the rotators in that thread, the inboard rotators were select alert and the outer rotators were nite probe according to the owner. The difference being that on the outer rotators (nite probe), there is an extra electrical junction block mounted on the front side of the rotator that the inboard select alert rotator does not have. Now my rotators are all 2 bulb. BUT every rotator assembly has a pair of diodes soldered in on the contacts, and every rotator I have also has that extra junction block mounted in front.

All my drive motors work, using certain wires. But I also have wires that light bulbs but cause no rotation. So is this night probe? I will also say, that even though the majority of bulbs in this bar are RED, I did have one bulb on each side that was white. The weird thing though, is that I cannot figure out how to position the white bulbs to face any specific direction before powering just the light circuit. The wires just seem to randomly light the bulbs in whatever position the rotators happen to be in. So I don't know. This thing has me stumped. So for now, I am just going to disassemble and clean everything. Then just put it back together and see what it does. It is equipped with something odd- that much I am certain of.

View attachment 154302

Wow, that is either select alert or night probe, I'm impressed. I have never seen it in a larger bar before. Let me dig and see what i can figure out for you as to which it is. Can you post some more pics?

Select alert worked with adding power to additional wires in various combinations. I will try to find some schematics.

Looking at the pics you posted, and a few old ones I found, front cutoff is activated by powering a section then activating the yellow wire in that terminal block.

If it had nightprobe, it could be either basic or advanced. Basic auto positions the flood light, advanced lets you move it around. I think it's still just a matter of powering or grounding wires in once the section is activated.

This is a great find, please post more pics.

 

[CamaroGuy]

following this awesome bar!

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

 

[Benno]

BUT every rotator assembly has a pair of diodes soldered in on the contacts, and every rotator I have also has that extra junction block mounted in front.

If one bulb should light up and the other not, these two diodes are nessesary! Otherwise they will ever light up together.

All my drive motors work, using certain wires. But I also have wires that light bulbs but cause no rotation.

For select alert - first the motors have to spin and the single brushes (like the one in your photo) must have 12V.

The wires just seem to randomly light the bulbs in whatever position the rotators happen to be in.

that is the second - If you want to light up all connect these wires to 12V

 

[shibby1952]

I will get a couple more pictures posted hopefully tonight. I have screwed around with this thing some, and understand a little more how it works. This bar has select alert cutoff to the side and rear. So I have 2 power wires for each section, one runs the section with side and rear off, and then adding the second wire turns the lights on to the side and rear. So I can power up each section and turn on or off side and rear lighting individually for each of the 3 sections.
What I don't understand, is what is supposed to happen by powering just the second wire alone. It will turn all the lights in that section on, but the motors seem to arbitrarily turn a short distance and then quit. So I don't know if that is the night probe feature, or if I am not supposed to power the second wire by itself. So select alert works like it should, but I still don't know if this has night probe or not.
Oh yeah, I did the same thing as the guy in the other post and accidentally broke one of the diodes. They are extremely brittle. So now I have to get that repaired in order to get the all on feature to work correctly. So now I have 2 6 footers down for repairs at the moment. It never ends...

 

[drb]

How many wires are in the harness and what color is each wire?

 

[toon80]

As for the diodes, Check the markings and solder a New one. Should be a cheap fix.

 

[bmd224]

I'm very envious of because this is the exact C3 bar that I've always wanted (Stingers and all) that I've either never been able to find, afford, or fit into my living room. So it goes!

Union Star, MO Fire District in NW MO will soon have a triple-threat for sale with Stingers, however I don't know if it is Select Alert (I don't know what that means). It's all clear lenses with two speaker housings. I'll find out more in a few days.

 

[Benno]

So I have 2 power wires for each section, one runs the section with side and rear off, and then adding the second wire turns the lights on to the side and rear. So I can power up each section and turn on or off side and rear lighting individually for each of the 3 sections.
What I don't understand, is what is supposed to happen by powering just the second wire alone.

If you are powering the second without the first wire it will not work correctly

So I don't know if that is the night probe feature, or if I am not supposed to power the second wire by itself. So select alert works like it should, but I still don't know if this has night probe or not.

With nightprobe the outer rotators will have 2 brushes! If there is only one is just select alert.

 

[drb]

On my bar, the white wire activates Select-Alert mode (rear only flash). I have it wired to a progressive slide switch (Unitrol 480K) on output 1-2-3. I have an orange wire, which powers the steady-burn red lamp, on output 2-3 (with Select-Alert still engaged). Lastly, the red wire is on output 3, which allows all of the rotators to flash a full 360 degrees (with steady-burn lamp still engaged). Powering the red wire only will make all the rotator lamps illuminate, but will not engage the motors. You need the white wire and red wire powered together to activate full 360 illumination. Once you remove power from the red wire (that is, going from position "3" to position "2" or "1" on the slide switch), the bar goes back into Select-Alert mode. The progressive slide switch is probably the easiest way to wire a Select-Alert bar.

 

[JohnMarcson]

On my bar, the white wire activates Select-Alert mode (rear only flash). I have it wired to a progressive slide switch (Unitrol 480K) on output 1-2-3. I have an orange wire, which powers the steady-burn red lamp, on output 2-3 (with Select-Alert still engaged). Lastly, the red wire is on output 3, which allows all of the rotators to flash a full 360 degrees (with steady-burn lamp still engaged). Powering the red wire only will make all the rotator lamps illuminate, but will not engage the motors. You need the white wire and red wire powered together to activate full 360 illumination. Once you remove power from the red wire (that is, going from position "3" to position "2" or "1" on the slide switch), the bar goes back into Select-Alert mode. The progressive slide switch is probably the easiest way to wire a Select-Alert bar.

Thank you. This is the best info so far. I apparently remember just enough about these to be dangerous. I wasn't even convinced OP hada select alert bar at first based on size. I need top stick to Whelen stuff before I break something.

 

[shibby1952]

OK I got it. My wires are different colors than what you describe, but that makes sense now. With a "triple threat" each section is on it's own circuit. So like I said, I can turn on and off select alert in each section individually. My select alert function is OFF to the rear, not the front- probably because this was mounted on a rescue truck. And yes, powering the second wire alone does power up the bulbs. The motors will turn about an 1/4 turn and then stop randomly. I have 8 power leads- 2 for each section, and then one for each of the 2 stingers. Right now I am working on getting the diode repaired, and then I should be working on reassembly. So night probe would add yet another set of brushes? Good to know. This bar has only one set of brushes for each rotator, so I have a total of 6. I would probably rather get an 8 toggle switch box, so that I can turn on and off each section individually plus the stingers. That would be pretty cool I think. Thanks for the help...

 

[shibby1952]

Union Star, MO Fire District in NW MO will soon have a triple-threat for sale with Stingers, however I don't know if it is Select Alert (I don't know what that means). It's all clear lenses with two speaker housings. I'll find out more in a few days.

And of course you throw another piece of bait in the trap- being that this would also be in my neck of the woods...

 

[CPSS]

Radio Shack has these diodes rated 6A up to 50 volts for $2.99 for a 4 pack

 

[shibby1952]

Ok thanks for the information. I scrounged a couple up that I think will work. The trouble will be getting the rotator back installed while trying to slip the belt back on while simultaneously keeping the brush inline. I took a couple extra pictures also. As you can see by the contact wheel that rides on the brush, the bulbs are actually only lit less than 90 degrees of rotation each. They are off towards the sides and rear. Strange because the end rotators have NO side warning to the sides with select alert on. Not really sure the purpose of that.