Apparatus Manufacturer. If you could pick one....

[pdk9]

Just for fun: Since we all know there are a few dozen apparatus manufacturers out there, I was curious what manufacturer you’d buy your next fire apparatus from based solely on quality and reliability/dependability (not constrained by budget like 99% of us are lol). It can be any fire apparatus manufacturer ranging from those that build complete chassis and body (ie Pierce, KME, Seagrave, Rosenbauer) to those that build on pre-build chassis (ie 4 Guys on a Spartan). SOOOOO, tell us which chassis & body manufacturer would you choose and why. Also, if any, tell us which ones you’d avoid at all costs + why

I’d go with a Pierce Velocity or Quantum with a Cummins. I don’t know of any manufacturer here that won’t receive at least one complaint, but I think they’re hands down the highest quality apparatus, lots of cab space, and the TAK4 gives the smoothest ride. If you have an air leak, it’s obviously annoying to have pneumatic steps, but I really do like the large “staircase” type of steps on the quantum when dismounting in full gear, and I’m interested in trying the electric ones on the velocity/impel. I used to work for a busy city (each rig averaged 4,000 runs a year and would be kept on the front lines for 15 yrs), and the Pierces really held up!

My current department has Sutphens and they have a lot of mechanical issues with them. The ride is smoothe but their cab is ugly and doesn’t look like it’s ever changed. I don’t love them, and I don’t think they’ve done anything to upgrade their cabs or their aerial construction design (which I dislike). We have old ferraras on FL-80 chassis as reserves and those (although beaten up and a rougher ride) are tanks.

My experience with E-One and KME has been mediocre. I love their chassis but I’ve had issues where we had to send both back to their manufacturers within 5 months of delivery/being put in service.

I’ve heard good things about Seagrave have no personal experience with them and just know they’re expensive. Like Sutphen, I think their aerial design is long overdue for some upgrades/advances

 

[Doyle257]

Having ridden a Pierce and a American LaFrance for a majority of my time in the fire service, I would hands down take the Pierce.

Arrow XT with the Detroit DD13...It actually still looks like a firetruck, as opposed to some of the stuff the manufacturers are bringing out.

Current dept has a Sutphen Engine, and a Spartan/RD Murray Rescue, soon to be replaced with a Spartan Gladiator Rescue-Pumper.
The Sutphen has a couple little Meh things about it. Nothing worth complaining about.
The Spartan/RD Murray...oh boy...lots of silly ass things went on there. In the middle of the build, or just before, RD Murray was purchased by American LaFrance. SO there is Spartan embroidery on the seats, RDMurray badging on the cab and body, and ALF Hubcaps/wheels

 

[pdk9]

I really liked the Arrow XTs that my old dept had. Rugged and dependable trucks. And you’re right....it does look like a fire truck.
Although I like the space in the cab and the steps, I think the Quantum is ugly.

 

[pdk9]

Anybody have any input on their experiences with some other manufacturers not mentioned yet (or those that we have touched on)?

 

[MRFD715]

We run a couple of E-ONE engines, one commercial and one custom chassis. Don't have any real complaints about either but we only run ~100 calls a year so they don't get a lot of abuse.

I would like to get a new Toyne on a custom chassis, we had an older one on a commercial chassis that did get beat on(full size engine that got bounced across fields and woods fighting grass/brush fires) and it held up well. They use Spartan for their custom chassis and I've never heard too many bad things about them. I've got to look over some of their newer stuff and it's very nice, at least compared to what I've been around. They are also a "local" company for me so it's nice to support that.

Most of the departments around here that have full time staffing run either all Pierce or Pierce engines and Sutphen trucks. I have no experience with either of those brands.

 

[Sparky_911]

Alexis chassis are big around my parts. Alexis is based in Illinois and a lot of our state bids require the purchase be made from inside the state(probably the same reason ISP uses mostly FedSig products). They aren't too bad as volunteer rigs go. Most of the ones I've dealt with are usually built off of International chassis.

Couple of area departments have started using Rosenbauer built trucks. Pretty impressed by those. They definitely have a euro feel but that's not a bad thing. Very well constructed and infinitely customizable.

 

[pdk9]

MRFD, it’s kinda annoying how some depts in your area only use pierce for engines and Sutphen for aerials, but I’ve long since given hope on trying to rationalize with ppl that make the decisions. My old dept was all pierce and it was simple when bouncing between stations and various rigs. My current dept, on the other hand, has engines from 4 different manufacturers and aerials from 3 different manufacturers, so it’s definitely not the most seamless transition between one truck or another b/c they’re all configured differently.

I’ve had limited experience with Spartan, and it’s hard to judge b/c they’ve always been used as slower rigs that don’t get tons of mileage and engine hours, but I’ve never had any issues with them. However, Fort Lauderdale is a busy dept that purchased a large amt of Spartan/Rosenbauer Engines, and they HATE them. They’re currently phasing them out as they move back to Pierce, and I hear nothing but complaints and mechanical issues with them. I can’t personally comment on the quality of Rosenbauer, but the general rep in Florida is not good and people describe them as budget quality.

Anybody have good/bad dealings with 4 guys? I’ve heard mixed reviews

 

[Doyle257]

Previous departmet runs 3 American LaFrance(2- 2001Eagle Top-mount, 1500GPM Engines, and 1-2004 Eagle Mid-Mount LTI Ladder) 1-1991 Pemfab/Saulsbury Top-Mount 1750gpm engine(2-Stage), 2-Pierce Sabre Top-Mount 1750gpm Engines(2015 & 2016), and a 1996 Simon/Duplex 9400 Walk-Through rescue.

the 2 ALF Engines are junk, from the front bumper to the rear. at 4 years old, they had chipping and peeling paint, peeling chrome, and various other issues.

The ALF Ladder is junk from the front bumper, to the back wall of the cab. the rest of the body is excellent.

The Pemfab is a steaming pile of shit. it was supposedly one of the last trucks off the line. there is no Manufacturer's wiring diagram in existance for it. when you sit in the Officer's seat, your knees are in your chest, because the battery compartment is built in the floor on that side.

The Pierce Sabers are fairly outstanding no major issues as of yet.

The Simon/Duplex is a fairly reliable piece of equipment, and one of the better designed units in their fleet. Full walk-through body, with a command center in the body. Refrigerator, Coffee maker, and a small stash of food, for long term situations.

 

[pdk9]

Really? I thought ALF had a good reputation for build quality (before it went bankrupt).

My old dept had 2 Simon-Duplex/LTI tillers that lasted on frontline service (in a busy dept) for 20 yrs, but eventually our dept’s mechanics couldn’t get parts that they could use on the SD tractor to keep them on the line, because the 2 rigs were bought shortly before SD went under

 

[StEaLtH2]

Pierce

 

[Doyle257]

Really? I thought ALF had a good reputation for build quality (before it went bankrupt).

ALF had decent quality up until their 2nd last Bankruptcy(like 1998) when they were purchased by Freightliner.

 

[Jdoanderson]

I wouldn't want to have a super vac. I use to work for them and saw some really janky stuff done on them

 

[FiremanSketch]

BRING BACK THE MACK! Nothing will ever compete with the Mack CF.

Or I'd take an 80s Seagrave J cab with a straightpiped 6v92 & a Jake... *heaven*

 

[Nolines]

I'm not a ffer but me and some friends owned a 74 Oren with a Detroit diesel 8v92, a guy we know has one of Lauderdale by the sea's old rigs that blew it's motor enroute to it's new home out of state...

 

[rcfd34]

We just ordered an Alexis truck I would have to say they are hands down the best after being at fdic and dealing with all types of venders they were the best very hard to beat

 

[Doyle257]

Our new Spartan is somewhere between Souix Falls, SD, and Buffalo, NY on delivery...so once I actually get my hands on it, I'll update

 

[Phillyrube]

BRING BACK THE MACK! Nothing will ever compete with the Mack CF.

Or I'd take an 80s Seagrave J cab with a straightpiped 6v92 & a Jake... *heaven*

C95.....I'm old.

KME......Kmart Enterpises...

 

[firebuff17]

My first truck I learned to drive and pump... ‘71/72 Mack CF with engine retarder ( don’t think it was a “Jake”) and a 1500 GPM watrous 2 stage pump. Open rear seats (just a roof and a man saver bar). Engine/tranny under the dog house between you and the guy in the other side. Sliding window between you and the driver/officer.
Have many memories (maybe a few head injuries, and definitely at least one hand injury) from that beauty! I broke my left pinky finger wheeling left handed one day on the A post. Probably sustained a few head injuries after hitting a few bumps with being 6’7” tall and an extra springy reupholstered drivers seat. After the first time it happened I had to cinch the seatbelt extra tight to minimize the bounce.
But I will tell you what.... I LOVED that truck! Sad day when it was sold for a 2006 HME/Smeal we got from a FEMA grant.