HILO
Member
Officer pinned, is in critical condition.
Bergen police officer in critical condition after Lodi Route 46 crash | NJ.com
Bergen police officer in critical condition after Lodi Route 46 crash | NJ.com
Bergen County NJ Explorer takes a major hit.
- Thread starter HILO
- Start date
I hope the officer recovers quickly.
I wonder how fast the car that hit him was going? Looks like the rear of his truck collapsed as designed however if it was retail and civilians in the back seat probably would've been fatal. I'm just guessing but again hopefully that officer is doing good.
I wonder how fast the car that hit him was going? Looks like the rear of his truck collapsed as designed however if it was retail and civilians in the back seat probably would've been fatal. I'm just guessing but again hopefully that officer is doing good.
pdk9
Member
Honestly, if I were involved in a similar accident, I would've preferred the older CVPI over the NGPI...the vics were built like tanks
pdk9 said:
Uh, no. The Crown Vic's were notorious for being extremely unsafe in a high speed rear end collision. The new ones are designed to take a hit from that speed.
Take a look at Vic in this video that was rear ended at highway speed. Not a safe place to be:
Nitsua98 said:
Horse hockey. The number of Crown Vics that actually caught fire from rear end hits were minimal, and the attributed design element was addressed over 10 years ago with retrofits and production line assembly part re-design.
HILO
Member
CHIEFOPS said:
BS, the number of Panther cars compared to other full size RWD catching fire were very high. It was not subject only to the CVPI as used by LEO's, Towncars, Grand Marquise and retail vics all had fires that killed or seriously injured people. And the last Ft. Worth CVPI to catch fire was a 2010. The plastic shield, the bladders, and fire suppression systems that Ford offered were simply their way of trying to address the problem rather than fix it, because the fix would require a redesign of the platform. Ford has settled tens of millions of dollars worth of wrongful death suits over the Panther cars. And while the fire was the cause of death, the people who died survived the impact, and while a few were knocked out, many fought to get out of the car, but could not because the doors were torqued shut.
CHIEFOPS said:
The Crown Vic is not the car on fire in that video. It's the one that was turned from a 4 door full size sedan into a coupe. The rear axle is touching the drivers seat.
My argument is only in response to a previous comment that the new Ford Explorers and Interceptors are not as safe as the Crown Victoria, which is complete nonsense. The new interceptor is designed to take a rear end hit from 75 miles per hour. The Vic, as is evidenced in that video, was not.
From 1997 to 2011 the majority of police cars in use, particularly assigned to Highway Patrols where they'd be most exposed to high speed rear end collisions were the Ford Crown Vic. To say they blew up more than other police cars is apples and oranges.
HILO
Member
1983 was the first documented post fire death in a Panther car. There were Chrysler M, and GM B bodies in heavy use along with the Panther cars. In early 2003, when I worked as an investigator on a Panther fire case, there were (at that point) something like 33 fire deaths in Panther cars (civilian and LEO) where the victims showed no blunt force trauma from the impact. It was found that the majority of the deceased would have survived the crash. By comparison, the Chrysler M bodies (with 7 models) and the GM B bodies ( with 12,960,000 vehicles produced), combined had fewer than 30 documented fire from rear impact deaths. In reality, when you compare total number of GM B bodies, Chrysler M bodies, and Ford Panther bodies produced, Ford still has the highest number of deaths from rear end impact related fires. Even though Ford made more Panther cars than Chrysler sold M bodies, GM made 6 times more B bodies than Ford did Panther cars.
All 3 RWD fuel tank aft of axle full size cars had a rather equal share of blunt force related deaths when averaged.
All 3 had an equal share of blunt force related deaths from driver side impact blunt force trauma.
GM had a higher rate of deaths from being ejected while wearing a seat belt, due to the 3 point automatic belt system that was attached to the doors.
Chrysler had the first standard air bag in a police car.
GM had the first ABS standard in a police car.
Ford had the first and only fire suppression system offered as an option, as well as kevlar fuel tank shields, on police cars.
Ford is the only PPV manufacture that has to make the 75mph rear impact certification. It has never been an issue with GM and Chrysler.
The question is always, why did Ford keep making a car that has been proven to be a risk, why do agencies keep buying it? Money is the reason. Ford did not have to spend a lot of building the car, and agencies could buy them cheap. While the risk was (and is) there for another death, or loss of vehicle by fire, the amount of money spent on settlements is far less than spending the money to change the design.
People will have their opinions about the Panther cars and the rear impact fires, much like anything. While out of the millions of followers of the Panther cars have a favorable opinion, thankfully (in an ironic way) only a few thousand are haunted by, or suffer from the facts about the Panther cars.
All 3 RWD fuel tank aft of axle full size cars had a rather equal share of blunt force related deaths when averaged.
All 3 had an equal share of blunt force related deaths from driver side impact blunt force trauma.
GM had a higher rate of deaths from being ejected while wearing a seat belt, due to the 3 point automatic belt system that was attached to the doors.
Chrysler had the first standard air bag in a police car.
GM had the first ABS standard in a police car.
Ford had the first and only fire suppression system offered as an option, as well as kevlar fuel tank shields, on police cars.
Ford is the only PPV manufacture that has to make the 75mph rear impact certification. It has never been an issue with GM and Chrysler.
The question is always, why did Ford keep making a car that has been proven to be a risk, why do agencies keep buying it? Money is the reason. Ford did not have to spend a lot of building the car, and agencies could buy them cheap. While the risk was (and is) there for another death, or loss of vehicle by fire, the amount of money spent on settlements is far less than spending the money to change the design.
People will have their opinions about the Panther cars and the rear impact fires, much like anything. While out of the millions of followers of the Panther cars have a favorable opinion, thankfully (in an ironic way) only a few thousand are haunted by, or suffer from the facts about the Panther cars.
CodeMan
Member
The crown vic safe in a rear end collision? REALLY?!? There were Major studies done on this... and the car was deemed a death trap in a rear end collision, even with the retro fit safety bar, On the interstate cars are going faster than the recommended top speed for rear impact to the older CVPI witch was rated for 30mph, Then after the retro fit it was 50mph, I dunno but cars on the interstate are going well above 50mph so the rear passengers die and the fire suppression system works. But CVPI's hit at 70mph and higher speeds made the car into a coupe. :duh:
Ford Crown Victoria Cases
Ford Crown Victoria Cases
Last edited by a moderator:
Over the course of only 12 years there were 5 M-Bodies, not 7, and at any 1 time only 3 were in production. With Chrysler and GM out of the mix by 1997, the Panther was disproportionately the most common full size sedan in service, and the CVPI was the most exposed to the type of collision that could result in fires.
7d9_z28
New Member
CHIEFOPS said:
Every car on the road is exposed to this type of collision. The rest just don't catch fire. Remember when ford had this issue in the 70s as well? With rear ended cars catching fire and such?
You can argue whatever you want. There proof, studies, etc that the panther cars had a flaw here. Not just 'compared to other police cars' but compared to all cars.
No other car but a police highway patrol car habitually sits adjacent to or directly in a lane of freeway traffic day in and day out, thus they are the most exposed to this type of collision that sometimes result in a fire. The CVPI has been the most predominant highway patrol car over the last 17 years, particularly between 1997 and 2011. Did it's design contribute to the fires, possibly, but that didn't make them too dangerous to use.
CodeMan
Member
I think the major argument has always been since the facts caim to light of the defect, that at highway speeds and if hit in the rear the car burst into flames. the car has a decent front end crash rating, so/so side rating.. but manufacturers rarely do rear collisions as most will fail... Like the fact that a FULL Sized sedan is reduced to a coupe, in seconds. So we all know of the CRUMPLE zones on vehicles and the CVPI's is located just behind the center pillar.... :undecided:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAsqfgNgF8o
Here is the other vehicle that burst into flames by ford.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAsqfgNgF8o
Here is the other vehicle that burst into flames by ford.
ast123
Member
Holy command truck Batman! Did anyone else scroll through the pictures from that news article and see this? "Major Crimes Unit" for the county prosecutor's office??
LED138
Member
DAMN! I live and work in Bergen County and I never even knew they had that! Ohh the money and duplication.. I love NJ!
exphillycop
Member
Philly changed to chargers in 2006 due to their lawsuit with ford over cvpi fires we had in out highway units.
vonirkinshtine
Member
Good lord, arguing about the CVPI's "tendency towards exploding" is beating a dead horse! Seriously! Have they caught fire? Yes. Do they have a 20 gal gas tank immediately in front of the rear axle? Yes. Have officers died? Yes. Have officers survived seemingly fatal crashes? Also yes!
Can we get back to the topic and be concerned for the officer who was involved in the original crash?
Can we get back to the topic and be concerned for the officer who was involved in the original crash?
Lodi teacher charged in Route 46 wreck that critically injured police officer | NJ.comNJ.com said:
fleetcomm
Member