Best place to buy digital P25 radios?

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
My department will be switching from VHF to digital, and i'll be buying my own digital radio. Our department gets them at about a price of $1300 or so (if i buy it through them), but i'd rather get one cheaper if possible. I will be getting the specs of the system this week so i will know what to look for in a radio. So now i'm looking around to find the cheapest prices on the p25 radios, i can't really come up with much.
 

Jordan_TCFD

Member
May 22, 2010
407
Chattanooga,TN, Bryant,
It will depend on if you need P25 trunking or just conventional. Are you going with VHF P25 or 7/800? You say VHF to P25, well P25 is like analog, it will work on all frequencies. Also, will you be running encryption?


There are lot of Motorola radios out there that will do P25, just depends on what extra's you need. Midland, Tait and a few others have P25 radios now, and from what I hear they sound good.(no pun intended).


Jordan,TCFD
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
My mistake it will be p25 800MHZ. I'm not sure on encryption or the rest of the specs, until i can get them from county this week.
 
May 16, 2010
2,340
Torrington, WY
I bought mine off eBay. It was loaded with all sorts of extras as far as the flashcode goes. You will just have to keep looking on eBay as I see quite a few for sale on there are reasonable prices.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Ebay has them all the time. Just make sure you have approval by your department and dispatching agency. If you don't and try to use or even turn it on, they can turn it into an expensive paper weight and you wont be able to undo it. Because once the radio is on they will be watching, lol.
 

kadetklapp

Member
May 21, 2010
1,568
Indiana
Ebay. I'm working on getting some for my part-time PD as we are out of grant money and have no mobiles. Just keep in mind that whatever you get needs to have smartzone/smartnet.
 

mcgourtymd

Member
May 20, 2010
15
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Fast LT1 said:
My mistake it will be p25 800MHZ. I'm not sure on encryption or the rest of the specs, until i can get them from county this week.

Make sure you find out what type of encryption, if any is used, as that may impact what brand radio is available to you. Reason being if ADP is used that is proprietary to Motorola, whereas DES and AES are available on most brands.


My experience in Cincinnati, which is mainly a Motorola region, is that you can get Kenwood and EF Johnson radios for half the price of Motorola and that was with departmental pricing on state bid. The Kenwood and EF Johnson dealers are just trying to get their feet in the door so they are much more willing to work on pricing.


Matthew
 

fleetcomm

Member
Sep 2, 2011
717
south of nowhere
mcgourtymd said:
Make sure you find out what type of encryption, if any is used, as that may impact what brand radio is available to you. Reason being if ADP is used that is proprietary to Motorola, whereas DES and AES are available on most brands.

My experience in Cincinnati, which is mainly a Motorola region, is that you can get Kenwood and EF Johnson radios for half the price of Motorola and that was with departmental pricing on state bid. The Kenwood and EF Johnson dealers are just trying to get their feet in the door so they are much more willing to work on pricing.


Matthew

Good reply, I do not like EF Johnson radios b/c in testing they did not work as well as most other radios we tested on our P25 800 system. If it is ADP encryption it will be a motorola only radio.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
fleetcomm said:
Good reply, I do not like EF Johnson radios b/c in testing they did not work as well as most other radios we tested on our P25 800 system. If it is ADP encryption it will be a motorola only radio.

True that. I have never heard anything positive for EF Johnson, don't know much about Kenwood though. Just stick with Motorola as you can find then fairly cheap as I know of a Motorola Astro Saber 800Mhz radio for 150 bucks on Ebay, I'm a sucker for Sabers. I have heard mixed reviews of Harris radios so maybe them too.
 

ryanm

Member
May 20, 2010
587
Arkansas
lafd55 said:
True that. I have never heard anything positive for EF Johnson, don't know much about Kenwood though. Just stick with Motorola as you can find then fairly cheap as I know of a Motorola Astro Saber 800Mhz radio for 150 bucks on Ebay, I'm a sucker for Sabers. I have heard mixed reviews of Harris radios so maybe them too.

I'm very happy with my Kenwood TK-5410 handheld operating on a Motorola P25 700/800 system (Smartnet/Smartzone, I think!!).


Ryan
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
My department is going with XTS1500's and a couple 2500's. So i'd like to stay the same so that the county will program it for me. I'll keep an eye on ebay!
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Average will be between 450-1500 for a portable. The XTS3000 and XTS5000 will also work. I find a XTS5000 for a good price I would suggest get it, as the 5000 is the most preferred and most optioned XTS portable made.
 

MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
Fast LT1 said:
My department is going with XTS1500's and a couple 2500's. So i'd like to stay the same so that the county will program it for me. I'll keep an eye on ebay!

My PD has XTS2500s, non stop problems with them. Half the time we use our cell phones when we are away from our unit to let dispatch know what's going on.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
MEVS06 said:
My PD has XTS2500s, non stop problems with them. Half the time we use our cell phones when we are away from our unit to let dispatch know what's going on.

That sounds more like a system infrastructure problem rather then a radio problem. What PD are you referring to? We have XTS2500s for Fire/EMS/Police and haven't had any problems and have had them for 4 years. Another city has them for the same type agencies and never had a problem for the same amount of years....
 

MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
lafd55 said:
That sounds more like a system infrastructure problem rather then a radio problem. What PD are you referring to? We have XTS2500s for Fire/EMS/Police and haven't had any problems and have had them for 4 years. Another city has them for the same type agencies and never had a problem for the same amount of years....

We are dispatched from the Sheriffs Office about 45 miles away, but we have a repeater in town and we have constant communication problems with the potables. In our units we have Icom mobiles and we rarely have any issues with them. We are running P25 vhf 154 range, even the SO and TXDPS have trouble with their XTS2500's. The problem may be that the radio shop that sold and installed all the radio equipment, sold them used equipment at way over new pricing. $3250 for a used XTS2500 and Icom 1721D mobiles? That is ridiculous to say the least.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
I would bypass that dealer and go Motorola directly. There really shouldn't have problems. XTS portables have been around for 16 years and still top of their game..
 

MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
lafd55 said:
I would bypass that dealer and go Motorola directly. There really shouldn't have problems. XTS portables have been around for 16 years and still top of their game..

I plan on it bypassing them altogether...
 

mcgourtymd

Member
May 20, 2010
15
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Fast LT1 said:
My department is going with XTS1500's and a couple 2500's. So i'd like to stay the same so that the county will program it for me. I'll keep an eye on ebay!

This brings up a couple of things I want to mention ...


First, there is something to be said for using like equipment. In any profession, but especially public safety, equipment can fail at the time you need it the most and having like equipment as your partners/colleagues allows you to rely on them should your equipment to fail. I am pleased to see that you want to use a similar radio as your department. This will make it easier on you if a battery dies, antenna breaks, or you need to borrow an accessory.


Secondly, and I don't want to sound like I am taking a dig at eBay, but do you want to take the risk with an unknown radio? Has the radio been rode hard and put away wet so to speak? Is the radio even flashed correctly for your system and if not, how much will it cost to bring it into compliance with your system? Also, will your department even allow you to use a radio not directly purchased from, a known to them, dealer (they may not want to take the liability of allowing you to use that equipment)?


Finally, and much like my first point, using equipment similar to your department will make programming that much easier for them and you. Using differing radios may not allow you to have a similar talkgroup template or have a similar scan function.


I only mention these items because I went through the same this past fall when I tested/evaluated two alternate radio brands for my department. I can tell you without a doubt the department flat out refused to allow any radio to be bought off eBay and it rested solely with liability reasons. The department did not want to risk officer safety. The ability to swap antennas, speaker mics, belt clips, batteries was also a big factor that I had to look at while evaluating radios. As was the ability to program radios similarly to each other.


If you want we can talk in more detail offline ... just message me.


Matthew
 

mcgourtymd

Member
May 20, 2010
15
Cincinnati, OH, USA
MEVS06 said:
My PD has XTS2500s, non stop problems with them. Half the time we use our cell phones when we are away from our unit to let dispatch know what's going on.

The department I dispatch for uses XTS2500's and they also have regular problems with the radios. The radios will randomly without any human interaction change channels though the display screen still shows the home channel, the emergency button activates randomly, and the display screen will flash between a completely black screen to horizontal or vertical lines. These are just a few problems and out of a fleet of 30 radios nearly every one has been sent in and ultimately is sent to the Depot for a replacement of all internals. The only saving grace is that it is all covered under warranty.


Matthew
 

CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,533
NYC
MEVS06 said:
We are dispatched from the Sheriffs Office about 45 miles away, but we have a repeater in town and we have constant communication problems with the potables. In our units we have Icom mobiles and we rarely have any issues with them. We are running P25 vhf 154 range, even the SO and TXDPS have trouble with their XTS2500's. The problem may be that the radio shop that sold and installed all the radio equipment, sold them used equipment at way over new pricing. $3250 for a used XTS2500 and Icom 1721D mobiles? That is ridiculous to say the least.

Your mobiles work, your portables don't- you're describing a portable radio range shortcoming, not a brand/model problem. Your mobiles transmit at 25-50 watts of power with a real antenna, your portables transmit at 4 or 5 watts with an ineffecient flexible antenna.


2 suggestions worth considering- vehicular repeaters would be the economical option, satellite/voting receivers more expensive option.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
That's what I was thinking... Prime example is the NYSP, as they are now going to use vehicle repeaters for their portables.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
The fact that I might get a crap radio is the biggest problem. I have two people that can change the flash code for me for a low price


And I have permission to get my own radio, because if I don't buy mine, I won't get one. Isn't that even worse for officer safety????

mcgourtymd said:
This brings up a couple of things I want to mention ...

First, there is something to be said for using like equipment. In any profession, but especially public safety, equipment can fail at the time you need it the most and having like equipment as your partners/colleagues allows you to rely on them should your equipment to fail. I am pleased to see that you want to use a similar radio as your department. This will make it easier on you if a battery dies, antenna breaks, or you need to borrow an accessory.


Secondly, and I don't want to sound like I am taking a dig at eBay, but do you want to take the risk with an unknown radio? Has the radio been rode hard and put away wet so to speak? Is the radio even flashed correctly for your system and if not, how much will it cost to bring it into compliance with your system? Also, will your department even allow you to use a radio not directly purchased from, a known to them, dealer (they may not want to take the liability of allowing you to use that equipment)?


Finally, and much like my first point, using equipment similar to your department will make programming that much easier for them and you. Using differing radios may not allow you to have a similar talkgroup template or have a similar scan function.


I only mention these items because I went through the same this past fall when I tested/evaluated two alternate radio brands for my department. I can tell you without a doubt the department flat out refused to allow any radio to be bought off eBay and it rested solely with liability reasons. The department did not want to risk officer safety. The ability to swap antennas, speaker mics, belt clips, batteries was also a big factor that I had to look at while evaluating radios. As was the ability to program radios similarly to each other.


If you want we can talk in more detail offline ... just message me.


Matthew
 

wkr518

Member
May 22, 2010
955
42.791127, -73.679758
Fast LT1 said:
The fact that I might get a crap radio is the biggest problem. I have two people that can change the flash code for me for a low price
And I have permission to get my own radio, because if I don't buy mine, I won't get one. Isn't that even worse for officer safety????

Had a similar issue here with a local Civil Air Patrol member.He wanted his own portable and said he needed VHF.I give him pricing on various models.After checking with his regional resource officer he is given a list of approved equipment for CAP.The models listed are all P25 capable or compliant models.He choose an XTS1500 display model with P25 conventional operation option and channel announcement.


It came to roughly $1700 with taxes and a speaker mic and charger.We ended up doing a payment plant and he had radio paid off on a layaway within 5 months.Making payments on a layaway basis didnt kick his budget with a pregnant wife,a 1 yr old daughter and a new mortgage.


Something to look into unless you need it ASAP.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Fast LT1 said:
The fact that I might get a crap radio is the biggest problem. I have two people that can change the flash code for me for a low price
And I have permission to get my own radio, because if I don't buy mine, I won't get one. Isn't that even worse for officer safety????
Some state police units here don't have portables and have to rely on the car's mobile.
 

fleetcomm

Member
Sep 2, 2011
717
south of nowhere
mcgourtymd said:
The department I dispatch for uses XTS2500's and they also have regular problems with the radios. The radios will randomly without any human interaction change channels though the display screen still shows the home channel, the emergency button activates randomly, and the display screen will flash between a completely black screen to horizontal or vertical lines. These are just a few problems and out of a fleet of 30 radios nearly every one has been sent in and ultimately is sent to the Depot for a replacement of all internals. The only saving grace is that it is all covered under warranty.

Matthew

If the system you are on is P25 trunking the radios that randomly change channels you will need to make sure that the ID is not in another radio because if it is when one of the radios changes channels the other one will also change to that channel but the display will not change on the second radio.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
lafd55 said:
Some state police units here don't have portables and have to rely on the car's mobile.

I'd rather just buy a portable because we have a very extensive and reliable repeater system.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
wkr518 said:
Had a similar issue here with a local Civil Air Patrol member.He wanted his own portable and said he needed VHF.I give him pricing on various models.After checking with his regional resource officer he is given a list of approved equipment for CAP.The models listed are all P25 capable or compliant models.He choose an XTS1500 display model with P25 conventional operation option and channel announcement.
It came to roughly $1700 with taxes and a speaker mic and charger.We ended up doing a payment plant and he had radio paid off on a layaway within 5 months.Making payments on a layaway basis didnt kick his budget with a pregnant wife,a 1 yr old daughter and a new mortgage.


Something to look into unless you need it ASAP.

I would do that if the dealers around here didn't want $2600 for an xts radio!
 

wkr518

Member
May 22, 2010
955
42.791127, -73.679758
Fast LT1 said:
I would do that if the dealers around here didn't want $2600 for an xts radio!
who said you had to buy local? You can buy from any USA based Motorola dealer as long as you provide the name of the system it is going onto and some basic contact infos for them.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Fast LT1 said:
I'd rather just buy a portable because we have a very extensive and reliable repeater system.

Well the state is switching portables to Motorola APXs, and everyone knows how much money those are. I think with the switch over to the new vehicle repeaters everyone will have a portable.
 

mcgourtymd

Member
May 20, 2010
15
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Fast LT1 said:
The fact that I might get a crap radio is the biggest problem. I have two people that can change the flash code for me for a low price
And I have permission to get my own radio, because if I don't buy mine, I won't get one. Isn't that even worse for officer safety????

And I agree that having one is much safer than not having one ... just wanted to bring up some issues I worked through and feel are helpful to remember. That is helpful having friends who are willing to help program the radio for you. Locally things are very controlled and that would never fly for my departments ... sometimes it can be nice for things to be so controlled but at other times it can be a real pain.

fleetcomm said:
If the system you are on is P25 trunking the radios that randomly change channels you will need to make sure that the ID is not in another radio because if it is when one of the radios changes channels the other one will also change to that channel but the display will not change on the second radio.

Yeah that is one of the first things they looked at and found the radios were defective. It's funny, on the county's P25 trunked system 98% of the radios are XTS5000's and those have been real workhorses, it is the XTS2500's that my department went with to save money that have been nothing but trouble. But for a small department it is hard to justify $4200 radios when you can get one for $3200 and on paper the cheaper radio can do everything the more expensive radio can do.


Matthew
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
yea, the 5000s are really the best XTS portable out there because you can do so much more to it then the 2500/1500. But be prepared to pay top dollar for them. And I forgot to mention earlier too, NYSP is switching to both APXs and Harris Unitys.
 

wkr518

Member
May 22, 2010
955
42.791127, -73.679758
lafd55 said:
yea, the 5000s are really the best XTS portable out there because you can do so much more to it then the 2500/1500. But be prepared to pay top dollar for them. And I forgot to mention earlier too, NYSP is switching to both APXs and Harris Unitys.

Are the Harris going to be tri-band or dual band only? Harris is eating Motorolas' lunch by not offering a VHF/UHF/800 tri-band radio, yet.


The XTS5000 ultra rugged model is the dealio...
 

BackYardSales

Member
Dec 5, 2011
445
US - KY
Somebody on here indicates they are a Vertex Dealer in their signature, but I don't remember who, and I can't find a way to search signatures. They may be able to offer a better price and some more information.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
BackYardSales said:
Somebody on here indicates they are a Vertex Dealer in their signature, but I don't remember who, and I can't find a way to search signatures. They may be able to offer a better price and some more information.

I love vertex but I want to stick with a moto because that's what the county uses and they are the ones that will be programming it for me.
 

irwinpd54

Member
Mar 16, 2011
43
Pennsylvania
I was reviewing your posts and figured I would post a reply. A neighboring agency recently switched from an analog 800 system to a UHF system. The radios in use were XTS 2500 model I portables and XTL 2500 mobiles. I purchased 15 from the municipality and have a total of six units left (3 portables, 3 mobiles).


More than likely I can have my radio guy flash the radio for what you need if you provide that information.


I am selling each unit for $1100.00, all units are in good to great condition. I personally added 5 of these acquired units to our fleet and they have been reliable. I am providing a new battery and charger with each portable and all required accessories for install on the mobiles. The mobiles are dash mount currently but could be remote if needed.


These units will do digital 700/800 P25....


If anyone is interested, PM ME....
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
wkr518 said:
Are the Harris going to be tri-band or dual band only? Harris is eating Motorolas' lunch by not offering a VHF/UHF/800 tri-band radio, yet.
The XTS5000 ultra rugged model is the dealio...

I don't think if there is such thing as a triband radio..... NYSP only needs VHF/800, as the vehicle repeater is 800Mhz with a VHF system. I don't know if Troop T is getting dual bands or not, but if so they would be UHF/800. Last but not least Troop X(part of Troop G) is on Albany's 800Mhz TRS. It just depends what troop your are in what radio you will have as Troop G has Motorola APXs and I know Troop F has Harris Unitys and all, if not most, cars have Harris Mobiles.
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
wkr518 said:
Are the Harris going to be tri-band or dual band only? Harris is eating Motorolas' lunch by not offering a VHF/UHF/800 tri-band radio, yet.
The XTS5000 ultra rugged model is the dealio...

The Unity's are 136-174, 380-520, and 762-870. I have one.


ai3.photobucket.com_albums_y95_uncleben03_Mobile_20Uploads_IMG952012051895122356.jpg
 
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lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Both the Unity and APX are basically the same in operation that's why the NYSP is using both. You can get VHF/UHF, UHF/7-800, VHF/7-800. Right now there is no such thing as a "Tri-band" radio...


ai619.photobucket.com_albums_tt272_lafd55_apx.jpg
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
Not true, the Unity's are "tri-band". We have about 900 mobiles and portables right now, they are all getting VHF, uhf and 800 frequencies. Mine definitely has all 3 in it.
 

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