Can the FedSig experts explain this tag to me? Video added 6/27/12

wfdstation42

Member
May 23, 2010
584
USA/FL
So I buy 2 beacon ray 175's from a guy that were supposed to be mounted on the same truck. They both had their bases cut at a slight angle. Both tags showed a model 17 not 175, one tag was the reddish/orange color and the other pictured below is the burgundy color. Check out the serial number though, what does it mean?


ai196.photobucket.com_albums_aa13_wfdstation42_elightbars_IMG129.jpg
 
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stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,538
U.S.A., Virginia
2P16 was Federal's designation for the model 17 and the rest of the number tells me it was 1968 production. As for the color, I expect it is from aging. I have a 173 with a dark badge. Now for a 175 to have a 17 badge is also not entirely uncommon. Odds are, something happened to the original skirt and it was damaged, so someone swapped in a 17 skirt that was laying around. It could also have been a case of the badge being damaged or lost and a 17 badge was placed on the skirt.
 

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,538
U.S.A., Virginia
No, the XP in the serial number does not mean explosion proof. There have been a few 1967 model 17's with an X placed after the final digit, but most that I've seen are 1968 production and only the model 17. I do not know the reason for these serial numbers with an X or XP, but 1968 was also the year Federal Signal introduced the 2R range of serial numbers. Perhaps Fed Sig was simply using up an existing supply of older style serial number badges.
 

dmathieu

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
8,779
S.W. New Hampshire, USA
I love trying to figure these vintage questions out, especially on this site. There is such a wealth of information on here, that usually someone comes up with the answer.
 

Wigwam700

Member
May 25, 2011
1,009
New York Adirondacks US
stansdds said:
2P16 was Federal's designation for the model 17 and the rest of the number tells me it was 1968 production. As for the color, I expect it is from aging. I have a 173 with a dark badge. Now for a 175 to have a 17 badge is also not entirely uncommon. Odds are, something happened to the original skirt and it was damaged, so someone swapped in a 17 skirt that was laying around. It could also have been a case of the badge being damaged or lost and a 17 badge was placed on the skirt.

Yes very cool info and probable cause reasoning!


Thanks Todd:D:yes:
 

Jordan_TCFD

Member
May 22, 2010
407
Chattanooga,TN, Bryant,
One thing I have seen also, is it seemed that Federal would print off the label with the common info(start of the batch of S/N's and mark the 17) but then depending on if it was a 173,174,175,176 they would then use the metal die to stamp the last numbers or letters. Though, what I could of been seeing is someone else modifying a model 17 tag to match a 17x light. I have seen more than 1 tag like what I described above.


Jordan,TCFD
 

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,538
U.S.A., Virginia
Jordan said:
One thing I have seen also, is it seemed that Federal would print off the label with the common info(start of the batch of S/N's and mark the 17) but then depending on if it was a 173,174,175,176 they would then use the metal die to stamp the last numbers or letters. Though, what I could of been seeing is someone else modifying a model 17 tag to match a 17x light. I have seen more than 1 tag like what I described above.

Jordan,TCFD

The first four characters in the serial number did indicate the model of Beacon Ray.


The first digit indicated voltage: 1=6V, 2=12V, 4=24V


The next letter was the series, it indicated a particular 10 year production run, but not based on the start of a calendar decade. It's confusing until the "R" series Beacon Rays.


The next two numbers actually indicate the specific model.


With the "R" series of Beacon Rays, Federal did print "17" in red ink on the badge, then used a stamp to add a letter and/or number to indicate a model other than a basic 17.
 

wfdstation42

Member
May 23, 2010
584
USA/FL
Well, I cut the angle off the bases and polished the chrome and domes of both lights. When I initially tested the lights the one that had the tag this thread referred to (with the serial number having "XP" at the end of it) I thought it seemed to rotate faster than I was acustomed to beacon rays spinning. After putting them back together and sitting them side by side sure enough it did. Check the video to see for yourself. Both have motors that appear to be the same. They are as big as the original black style but they're silver in color. Maybe it's just a fluke. Comments?


ai196.photobucket.com_albums_aa13_wfdstation42_elightbars_th_SANY0022.jpg
 

Wheels

Member
May 23, 2010
400
El Paso, Texas
Ah you're right, that 175 on the right does spin faster. It's a fluke and no longer valuable. That poor fella has a faster motor and a wrong tag...so feel free to send it my way and I'll be happy to take care of that for you. Lol, jk. But those are some nice looking lights!


Actually I believe there were some motors out there that spun a little faster than usual. I'm not sure why, maybe someone here can explain that. I think a few months back, someone also mentioned that some motors on the 184 were like that as well.
 

Clarence H

Member
May 20, 2010
1,546
USA Twin Cities Minnesota
They say the angled beams are to provide more warning when going up and down hills, I think it's just for a different visual effect.


( Where is the the king when you need him?) In beacon ray heaven!


Clarence
 

dmathieu

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 20, 2010
8,779
S.W. New Hampshire, USA
Federal, in a 1967 brochure, said the reason for the tilted beams was for agencies that were too "timid" to have straight mounted clear beams, and for states that did not allow front, or rear, facing clear lights. This way, you could have a clear light without the blinding direct beam.


Dan
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Jordan said:
One thing I have seen also, is it seemed that Federal would print off the label with the common info(start of the batch of S/N's and mark the 17) but then depending on if it was a 173,174,175,176 they would then use the metal die to stamp the last numbers or letters. Though, what I could of been seeing is someone else modifying a model 17 tag to match a 17x light. I have seen more than 1 tag like what I described above.

Jordan,TCFD

I can vouch that Jordan knows his 175s. What I've seen on some 175s is the old tag with the 17 being prominent and the "5" being engraved next to it. Remember, in the earlier days when Federal started producing lights like the 173s, 1974s, 175s, and 176s, they were all variations off the original 17, and were built at someone's special request. Hence the engraved "5" next to the 17. Once some of these variations became popular and started to sell on their own, Federal assigned the above model numbers. Some other variations that didn't involve model designation changes included the California Special available on all of the lights. This was a single-faced, usually Unity, red sealed beam light mounted in the center of the base. This light was steady-burn to comply with California regulations.


As Federal explained in their old Catalog 300, a lot of variations came about as a result of differences in state laws. For example, one state would allow red to the front but not to the rear, so they had a split dome with red up front and blue or amber to the rear. As many differences as there were state requirements, Federal built accordingly. A friend of mine who has worked at a number of Southern California ambulance services sent me a picture a few years ago of a hightop Cadillac ambulance that had a pair of Federal 184 beacons on the front corners of the hightop. Both lights had split domes with red to the front and amber to the rear in accordance with California specs that required alternate amber lights to the rear. Anyone who ever watched "Emergency!" could see the slot cut out of the rear of their Twinsonic domes that had the amber bulbs. You could also see where the steady burning bulb behind the red dome was located. Only California could be so difficult. But there were a lot of variations in those days. I bought a 1967 hightop Olds ambulance in 1977 that had come from Lyons, Illinois. The big Olds had large tunnel lights over the cab and smaller ones built into the hightop. The tunnel light over the driver's side was green. This was a bulb/reflector ass'y, as there were no green sealed beams at the time. It was removed and replaced with a Par-46 red sealed beam. Texas would've never allowed that green light back then. I had been told for years that Illinois required green on ambulances; but not long ago someone told me that wasn't true. I wonder why the had the green then!
 

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,538
U.S.A., Virginia
My 175, which is all-original, spins fast. Mine is serial number 2R15H75P, making it 1975 vintage. My 175 provides about 70 to 80 flashes per minute from the two level beams and the tilted clear beams on mine can be set to a separate switch.


I think that's a pretty odd arrangement having the blue bulbs aimed up.
 

wfdstation42

Member
May 23, 2010
584
USA/FL
stansdds said:
My 175, which is all-original, spins fast. Mine is serial number 2R15H75P, making it 1975 vintage. My 175 provides about 70 to 80 flashes per minute from the two level beams and the tilted clear beams on mine can be set to a separate switch.

I think that's a pretty odd arrangement having the blue bulbs aimed up.

These both are also set up so that the tilted lights can be switched separately from the horizontal lights. The bulbs are the ones that came with it, I too thought a blue pointing up was odd. The one on the left does about 60 flashes per minute from the 2 horizontal beams, the fast one on the right does about 84.
 

stansdds

Member
May 25, 2010
3,538
U.S.A., Virginia
dmathieu said:
I think Federal advertised 80 FPM.

You would be correct, Fed Sig advertised 80 fpm for the 17, 173 and 175. The 176 and 184 were advertised to provide 106 fpm.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Respondcode3 said:
The green on the Lyons ambulance is becase all the Fire departments in the suburbs in northern Il follow chicago with a green light on the passenger side

Thanks, that's good to know. I knew there had to be a reason. But on my old Olds, the green light was on the driver's side. So, is Lyons considered a suburb of Chicago, then? I've landed in Chicago once but went south to Merillville, IN, not north. As I said earlier, I've always heard that Lyons preferred the old Oldsmobiles. The one we had was supposed to have been the last. Do they have website?
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
wfdstation42 said:
These both are also set up so that the tilted lights can be switched separately from the horizontal lights. The bulbs are the ones that came with it, I too thought a blue pointing up was odd. The one on the left does about 60 flashes per minute from the 2 horizontal beams, the fast one on the right does about 84.

The Odessa (TX) PD used 175s with all clear bulbs and red domes for just a few years in the early '60s. Theirs had the switching that you describe. But when they used the option, the rotation ceased and the angled bulbs were aimed so that the downward tilted bulb could be used as a takedown. I could understand them doing that with clear domes and the tilted bulbs being clear, but not with solid red domes like that! :undecided:
 

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