CenCom Carbide Issue

[tigerfdny]

I seem to be having an issue with the Carbide since it has been installed and cannot figure it out. I currently have the Carbide with the rotary knob Control Head properly installed in a vehicle which has 4 Ion Duos in the grille, 2 Microns on the side of the front license plate holder, 2 Microns in the fog light area, 2 Mirror Beam V-series & 2 LINSV2's underneath them, XLP Inner Edge WeCan Duo in the front, Inner Edge RTX Trio in the rear deck, 2 Microns on the rear license plate bracket, 2 Vertexes on the trunk liner, 3 SSFPOS used to flash the rear taillight assembly (using a few diodes as well), and a Howler. The CANEM16 (16 Output Expansion Module) was used in addition to the Outputs from the Carbide since we needed over 20 outputs for how it was configured.

Here is the quirky thing. All of the equipment I mentioned works great with no issues at all. Everything was programmed correctly through the Carbide software as needed. The issue I keep having is a Single Red Flashing light at the WeCan port in the rear of the Carbide unit which indicates a Communication Error and advises "Bad CenCom connection, check lightbar I/O or interface box for proper operation". There is no issue with the XLP Inner Edge or the CANEM16 since those 2 devices are wired into the WeCan port. Everything works fine with the Inner Edge and all of the lights that are attached to the CANEM16 Outputs.

I have been in contact with Whelen Tech Support numerous times with regards to this issue and they could not figure this out either. I had sent the Carbide unit along with the CANEM16 back to Whelen to get bench tested off of my Carbide profile I e-mailed them and they told me they could not get the issue to duplicate at all and everything seemed fine. The Carbide unit originally had Rev. B firmware and was even upgraded to the latest Rev. E firmware. Even after getting both units back and putting them back in the car, I still get the Single Red Flash error.

Whelen Tech Support tried everything possible to figure this out but couldn't. I tried multiple troubleshooting methods to determine where the issue was and still no good. I had even generated a blank Carbide profile in the software and wrote it to the Carbide unit and it still gave the error. I had plugged the Control Head directly into the Carbide unit itself instead of using the extension cable and still had the issue. The Green (CAN A) and Gray (CAN B) wires from the Inner Edge and the CANEM16 are both spliced correctly to the Green and Gray wires to the Connector of the WeCan port. Even the middle wire of the connector, Pin 2 (White/Black wire) is connected to the bare shield from the Inner Edge, which is used to protect against any EM interference. I was even sent a new pigtail connector for the Control Head in thought that there was a wiring issue and that proved to be negative.

Here is what I was able to narrow down. When the car is turned on, or ignition set to Accessory or Run, I get the Communication Error. While the vehicle is still on or there is power on from the ignition, I pulled out the power wire harness from the back of the Carbide then plugged it back in and the Single Red Flash disappears and there is no error light. As soon as I shut down the car then turn it back on, the error indicator comes back. This same scenario occurs if I pull the WeCan Connector out while the car is on then plug it back in, the error light disappears. It also re-appears when I shut the car down then turn it back on. I don't seem to get what is going on. I had an electrical engineer run diagnostics on the vehicle's Power Distribution Center and claims there is nothing wrong and everything is working the way it is supposed to. Whelen Tech Support is claiming there has to be an issue somewhere with the vehicle, the wiring, or there is interference of some sort. I was thinking there has to be some kind of delay with how the Carbide communicates to the WeCan devices upon ignition power up and that it is probably a delay within the unit itself which would could be corrected in a future firmware update. Does anyone have any idea what this may be?

 

[C17LVFD]

Sounds like you've done a lot of great diagnostic work!

This is a fun (sorry I'm sure you're at your wits end) challenge.

I haven't played with the carbide myself, but you've given plenty of information here to ask a couple questions...

What type of vehicle is this in? BTW would like to see a video of this setup

Does the carbide, inner edge and expansion unit all receive continuous power from the battery?

It sounds like when the ignition turns on, the main power wires are on a disconnect as well and when everything fires on at the same time, it's the systems getting jumbled.

If all three have continuous power and then you just have an ignition trigger, try powering all three from the same power point and grounding point of they aren't already done so.

If Whelens saying they can't replicate your problem, might be worth asking the tech to walk you through exactly HOW they tested it.

Good luck and happy to troubleshoot more over the phone. PM me if that would be helpful.

Seth

 

[TACKLEBERRY]

Couple questions:

-How do you have the rear Inner Edge RTX TRIO wired?
Carbide can only communicate with two WECAN devices other than the External Siren Amplifyer and WECAN external Lightbar.

-Have you seperated your WECAN XLP and Expansion Module? Try it with just the XLP and see if you get the error and then just the Module.

When I installed my Carbide system back in November, when my vehicle was going to be a "slick top", I got the same WECAN error light, but everything worked; two (2) Expansion Modules and the Siren External Amplifier. Then when I got told it had to have a lightbar, I added a Liberty II to it keeping all the other WECAN devices. Error light went away. Haven't seen it since. My guess, was my Carbide was searching for a lightbar and didn't see it. But my Carbide is one of the first ones off the line. If this was a firmware issue, I'd assume this would have been addressed by now and fixed in your update.

 

[rescue567]

I am having the same type of error light issue with my Can Trol unit. Whelen Tech can't figure mine out either.

 

[tigerfdny]

Sounds like you've done a lot of great diagnostic work!

This is a fun (sorry I'm sure you're at your wits end) challenge.

I haven't played with the carbide myself, but you've given plenty of information here to ask a couple questions...

What type of vehicle is this in? BTW would like to see a video of this setup

Does the carbide, inner edge and expansion unit all receive continuous power from the battery?

It sounds like when the ignition turns on, the main power wires are on a disconnect as well and when everything fires on at the same time, it's the systems getting jumbled.

If all three have continuous power and then you just have an ignition trigger, try powering all three from the same power point and grounding point of they aren't already done so.

If Whelens saying they can't replicate your problem, might be worth asking the tech to walk you through exactly HOW they tested it.

Good luck and happy to troubleshoot more over the phone. PM me if that would be helpful.

Seth

This is in a 2016 Dodge Charger Pursuit with a Power Distribution Center built in. With that said, if you are familiar with the PDC's, they come with the slide out tray in the trunk where you mount your equipment and also acts as a solid grounding plane. All of the devices, whether it's the radios, or the rest of the Whelen equipment, are all grounded to the terminals on the tray. They are set to get constant power and we verified that they do. The devices are already powered from the same source as well as ground. Whelen has told me they are just simply using a 12v power supply. They initially used a Carbide unit they have for testing purposes from engineering and another version Inner Edge. Then when I sent in my equipment in, they still used the same power supply. They used all of the assigned outputs from the Carbide profile I sent them and went off of that. I am seriously convinced it has to do with something as simple as a timing issue within the Carbide unit itself with the ignition trigger. Testing off of a power supply and working off of a Power Distribution Center can give you slightly different results. All we are talking about is data and how the Carbide unit communicates with the devices. Ironically, the representative from Whelen told me that they do not know of many customers who purchased the Carbide who had the Output Expansion Module and the Inner Edge in combination so this issue is a first for them. Almost everyone has been able to utilize the Carbide's 18 Outputs and that's it. Lastly, I do not have any video of it yet since I still have a few more minor things I need done to the console and rear trunk area, possibly contemplating on the Tracer since it came out after the fact.

 

[C17LVFD]

Can you elaborate on the slightly different results from the power supply to the pdc?

Have you pulled everything and bench checked it off of a bench power supply?

The good thing here is it works and it sounds like u just have an annoying little light blinking but does it truly mean something more..??

Looking forward to a video!

Seth

 

[tigerfdny]

Couple questions:

-How do you have the rear Inner Edge RTX TRIO wired?
Carbide can only communicate with two WECAN devices other than the External Siren Amplifyer and WECAN external Lightbar.

-Have you seperated your WECAN XLP and Expansion Module? Try it with just the XLP and see if you get the error and then just the Module.

When I installed my Carbide system back in November, when my vehicle was going to be a "slick top", I got the same WECAN error light, but everything worked; two (2) Expansion Modules and the Siren External Amplifier. Then when I got told it had to have a lightbar, I added a Liberty II to it keeping all the other WECAN devices. Error light went away. Haven't seen it since. My guess, was my Carbide was searching for a lightbar and didn't see it. But my Carbide is one of the first ones off the line. If this was a firmware issue, I'd assume this would have been addressed by now and fixed in your update.

The Inner Edge RTX Series Trio is not WeCan capable so only the Solo and Duo can be wired into the WeCan port. This is wired to 2 of the Outputs on the CANEM16. You are correct with the WeCan that only 2 Accessories (key word) can be wired in at the same time. Accessories such as 2 Output Expansion Modules at once, 1 front Inner Edge and 1 rear Inner Edge at once, or 1 Inner Edge (whether front or rear) with an Output Expansion Module. The WeCan External Amplified Siren and an external WeCan lightbar are not considered as Accessories and can be added in addition to the aforementioned devices. With your scenario, it sounds like a firmware issue. I, too, have an early version Carbide unit but after I sent it in, they upgraded it to the newest version. The fact that they have had 4 different version firmware come out within the last 5-6 months is a lot compared to many of their older products. This is why I am convinced it has to be the way the unit is trying to communicate.

 

[tigerfdny]

Can you elaborate on the slightly different results from the power supply to the pdc?

Have you pulled everything and bench checked it off of a bench power supply?

The good thing here is it works and it sounds like u just have an annoying little light blinking but does it truly mean something more..??

Looking forward to a video!

Seth

Well if you think about how they are bench testing with a power supply versus how a PDC works, you have a lot more factors and variables with a PDC whether it be whatever size relays are being used, using the VSIM's for upfitting purposes.

 

[C17LVFD]

Yes, I understand that. Since Whelen didn't have your exact configuration as you said the inner edge was different... Have you tried this entire setup on the bench?

If so and you have no error from the carbine I would think you can assume it has to do with the pdc and not the Whelen system. Or the Whelen system has extremely tight normals that it will accept.

From there you could look at voltages on the constant power... What voltages do on the constant power and ignition wires as a startup and shut down sequence is initiated. Maybe you need to bypass the pdc.

I did a install on a f-350 once adding some strobes. The f-350 came with up fitter switches. Ran the strobe PS off the switch and it did all kinds of funny stuff. As soon as I ran a main power and ground from the battery... No more issues.

I know bypassing the pdc defeats the purpose of it. I guess it all depends on how much you want the error to disappear.

Seth

 

[tigerfdny]

Yes, I understand that. Since Whelen didn't have your exact configuration as you said the inner edge was different... Have you tried this entire setup on the bench?

If so and you have no error from the carbine I would think you can assume it has to do with the pdc and not the Whelen system. Or the Whelen system has extremely tight normals that it will accept.

From there you could look at voltages on the constant power... What voltages do on the constant power and ignition wires as a startup and shut down sequence is initiated. Maybe you need to bypass the pdc.

I did a install on a f-350 once adding some strobes. The f-350 came with up fitter switches. Ran the strobe PS off the switch and it did all kinds of funny stuff. As soon as I ran a main power and ground from the battery... No more issues.

I know bypassing the pdc defeats the purpose of it. I guess it all depends on how much you want the error to disappear.

Seth

Before the install, a bench test was done on the configuration, excluding the CANEM16, and there were no issues at the time. I did another bench test once the CANEM16 came in, just on that unit only, and everything worked fine as well. I did not do a full bench test on all of the equipment hooked up. We did monitor the voltage levels on the constants and ignition and there was a +/- difference of .1 of a volt, very minimal.

 

[tigerfdny]

Anyone else have a possible resolution to this?

 

[SafetyLighting]

So all the equipment works as it should, but you are getting an error light?

 

[SafetyLighting]

I think Tackleberry gave you the answer; the CenCom is looking for a lightbar and not seeing it.

 

[tigerfdny]

So all the equipment works as it should, but you are getting an error light?

That is correct. Have you also seen or heard of the issue with the Carbide as well?

 

[tigerfdny]

I think Tackleberry gave you the answer; the CenCom is looking for a lightbar and not seeing it.

I understand what Tackleberry said but that does and does not make sense. Where does the issue lie if the Carbide thinks it is looking for a lightbar when in fact the hardware nor the software point in that direction since there only lightbars involved are Inner Edges, one a WeCan XLP Duo and the other an RTX Trio? So you mean to tell me the only way for the error light to disappear is to install and connect a WeCan rooftop lightbar as well? Wouldn't one think if that is the case, it has got to be an issue with the firmware to the Carbide itself?

 

[SafetyLighting]

I haven't worked with the Carbide, but unless you were having an issue with what is connected not working, I would stop wasting time trying to figure it out. It probably is an issue with the firmware or software. There is lots of issues with the CanTrol, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Carbide had issues too.