Cencom.... it HAS to be said! Start RANT now!

ford-dealer

Member
Sep 2, 2010
857
San Antonio
Seriously? I am very disappointed with the Cencoms as a whole. Every time I do an install / programming of one, it simply befuddles me as to just how limited and goofy they really are.


Gripe # 1 Output # 1.... Really? Since MOST applications for slide switch positioin # 1 are usually limited to rear warning only, do I REALLY need a 10ga wire? Having to step that huge wire down to connect it to the tiny rear control wire on a Liberty is just plain wasteful.


Yes, I am aware that IF someone was going to control a bunch of high current Twinsonics from Position 1.... but yeah...


Gripe # 2 Siren tone availability... purchas a SL100 siren and you get a plethora of tones to pick from.... Cencom? Not so much.


Gripe # 3 Why on earth is SW #8 the ONLY switch that is capable of canceling other outputs? Having the ability to Cancel outputs would allow for more flexible programming.


Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.


Gripe # 5 PA Volume is only adjustable at the amp... no volume knob on the control head.... WHY? Other remote head siren controllers have a volume knob.... but NOT the "Top Of The Line" unit? Pffft.....


Gripe # 6 Siren Control... Why not a rotary switch? I don't know about you... but when I am running code, I like to be able to "Feel" my controls if needed.


Gripe # 7 Audible "Activity Tone" is ALL or NONE! Why cannot I have the ability to have that option programmed to certain functions WITHOUT having them on ALL of them? It would be nice to be able to select which functions utilize the "Activity Tone".


I am sorry if I offended anyone with this post... but being a huge Whelen fan... I would have expected a MUCH better product in the Cencom line.


I am getting a new CVPI patrol unit, and I have the budget to outfit her the way I want... but I think I am going to stick with my Havis switch panel with the 7 Carling rockers and a 295SLA1 siren.... End Rant
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wema628

Member
May 30, 2010
203
USA / Tennessee
Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.


The legend stickers fit great. You have to use a small screw driver or something small to fold the rubber back and let the sticker lay under the sides. I had mine for 6 years and never had one come off and installed a lot and never lost one.
 

Jamey@NNE

Member
Jun 23, 2011
1,661
Ocoee, Florida
wema628 said:
Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.

The legend stickers fit great. You have to use a small screw driver or something small to fold the rubber back and let the sticker lay under the sides. I had mine for 6 years and never had one come off and installed a lot and never lost one.

Correct, the raised edges go over the legends to hold them in. Most companys do it that way.
 

tvsjr

Member
Oct 7, 2012
611
TX
ford-dealer said:
Seriously? I am very disappointed with the Cencoms as a whole. Every time I do an install / programming of one, it simply befuddles me as to just how limited and goofy they really are.

Gripe # 1 Output # 1.... Really? Since MOST applications for slide switch positioin # 1 are usually limited to rear warning only, do I REALLY need a 10ga wire? Having to step that huge wire down to connect it to the tiny rear control wire on a Liberty is just plain wasteful.
And if all the outputs were lower current, someone else would be in here whining that they have to attach an external relay to drive something high current.

Gripe # 3 Why on earth is SW #8 the ONLY switch that is capable of canceling other outputs? Having the ability to Cancel outputs would allow for more flexible programming.
It's not. The limitation is the programming software. If you're willing to figure out the XML on your own, you can do anything. For instance, my Standby button also turns all the other pushbuttons off (but not the pursuit switch) so it's a great way to "clear" any lights that are left on. I have a macro button that enables both rear amber and the TA flash. I also have a single "tri-tone" button that steps through three low current outputs, controlling a slaved Alpha22Q. Cencom Yelp + Mechanical (the good mech - prior to the lawsuit) FTW!

Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.
As other people have pointed out... RTFM, n00b! The legends tuck down under the edges of the button. If you want to rag on the control head, rag on the red/gold coloring that wears off (I finally removed all of mine, so the whole head is black)

Gripe # 5 PA Volume is only adjustable at the amp... no volume knob on the control head.... WHY? Other remote head siren controllers have a volume knob.... but NOT the "Top Of The Line" unit? Pffft.....
How often do you really adjust the PA volume

Gripe # 6 Siren Control... Why not a rotary switch? I don't know about you... but when I am running code, I like to be able to "Feel" my controls if needed.
Horn ring is even better, as you don't have to take your hands off the wheel.

Gripe # 7 Audible "Activity Tone" is ALL or NONE! Why cannot I have the ability to have that option programmed to certain functions WITHOUT having them on ALL of them? It would be nice to be able to select which functions utilize the "Activity Tone".
Again, software limitation. If you dig into the XML, activity tone is &ACT_TONE; if I remember correctly. You can assign it to whatever you want.

I am sorry if I offended anyone with this post... but being a huge Whelen fan... I would have expected a MUCH better product in the Cencom line.
You're aware that the original Cencom is pushing 10 years old, yes? It was revolutionary for it's time. I would like to see Whelen revamp it... give it all the various tones... make the software more accommodating (maybe even have an "expert mode" for those of us who are willing to dig in a bit more), etc.


Since you're a Whelen dealer, have you thought about calling them and expressing your thoughts directly?

I am getting a new CVPI patrol unit, and I have the budget to outfit her the way I want... but I think I am going to stick with my Havis switch panel with the 7 Carling rockers and a 295SLA1 siren.... End Rant
I've got the money to buy a Cadillac, but it's not a Ferrari, so I'll just stick with my Yugo. :bonk:
 

ford-dealer

Member
Sep 2, 2010
857
San Antonio
Please explain how to "Dig In" to the XML?
 

tvsjr

Member
Oct 7, 2012
611
TX
For Cencom Red, look at the .tpl files in the main program folder. I don't have any Golds or Sapphires to play with.
 

fleetcomm

Member
Sep 2, 2011
717
south of nowhere
Gripe # 1 Output # 1.... Really? Since MOST applications for slide switch positioin # 1 are usually limited to rear warning only, do I REALLY need a 10ga wire? Having to step that huge wire down to connect it to the tiny rear control wire on a Liberty is just plain wasteful.


I don't mind the over kill and the sapphire you can make any output work on any switch or button.


Gripe # 2 Siren tone availability... purchas a SL100 siren and you get a plethora of tones to pick from.... Cencom? Not so much.


The new cen com sapphire gives you more choices.


Gripe # 3 Why on earth is SW #8 the ONLY switch that is capable of canceling other outputs? Having the ability to Cancel outputs would allow for more flexible programming.


Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.


This has been answered and I have been using them for 7 years and have about 100 units in service with no problems.


Gripe # 5 PA Volume is only adjustable at the amp... no volume knob on the control head.... WHY? Other remote head siren controllers have a volume knob.... but NOT the "Top Of The Line" unit? Pffft.....


I do agree it should be eaiser to adjust. I have ask my officers and they don't use the PA much.


Gripe # 6 Siren Control... Why not a rotary switch? I don't know about you... but when I am running code, I like to be able to "Feel" my controls if needed.


Horn ring and it is the easiest to find and I like the buttons but, everyone has feature they like.


Gripe # 7 Audible "Activity Tone" is ALL or NONE! Why cannot I have the ability to have that option programmed to certain functions WITHOUT having them on ALL of them? It would be nice to be able to select which functions utilize the "Activity Tone".


The sapphire can do this.


I am sorry if I offended anyone with this post... but being a huge Whelen fan... I would have expected a MUCH better product in the Cencom line.


I am getting a new CVPI patrol unit, and I have the budget to outfit her the way I want... but I think I am going to stick with my Havis switch panel with the 7 Carling rockers and a 295SLA1 siren.... End Rant


I am a big fan of Whelen and they have made changes for the better over time. I'm not offended by someone wanting to improve products. I think we all want that in products we use.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
The only thing that disappointed me with the Sapphire was the control head. It feels very flimsy, and I honestly do not trust it to withstand the stress of being in my car/ambulance. Oddly enough, it's the exact opposite of the complaint I have with Fed Sig and the Smart Siren. I find that the keypad is great, but the amp has a very cheap feel to it, while the CenCom's amp is pretty solid.
 

RecElect

Member
Jan 26, 2011
331
Loveland, Colorado
ford-dealer said:
Seriously? I am very disappointed with the Cencoms as a whole. Every time I do an install / programming of one, it simply befuddles me as to just how limited and goofy they really are.

Gripe # 1 Output # 1.... Really? Since MOST applications for slide switch positioin # 1 are usually limited to rear warning only, do I REALLY need a 10ga wire? Having to step that huge wire down to connect it to the tiny rear control wire on a Liberty is just plain wasteful.


Yes, I am aware that IF someone was going to control a bunch of high current Twinsonics from Position 1.... but yeah...


Gripe # 2 Siren tone availability... purchas a SL100 siren and you get a plethora of tones to pick from.... Cencom? Not so much.


Gripe # 3 Why on earth is SW #8 the ONLY switch that is capable of canceling other outputs? Having the ability to Cancel outputs would allow for more flexible programming.


Gripe # 4 Legend Stickers... who thought it was a good idea to put marginaly sticky legends to flexible rubber buttons? Not only do they not stay stuck most of the time, but they are actually slightly larger than the recessed part of the pushbutton, so fit is terrible.


Gripe # 5 PA Volume is only adjustable at the amp... no volume knob on the control head.... WHY? Other remote head siren controllers have a volume knob.... but NOT the "Top Of The Line" unit? Pffft.....


Gripe # 6 Siren Control... Why not a rotary switch? I don't know about you... but when I am running code, I like to be able to "Feel" my controls if needed.


Gripe # 7 Audible "Activity Tone" is ALL or NONE! Why cannot I have the ability to have that option programmed to certain functions WITHOUT having them on ALL of them? It would be nice to be able to select which functions utilize the "Activity Tone".


I am sorry if I offended anyone with this post... but being a huge Whelen fan... I would have expected a MUCH better product in the Cencom line.


I am getting a new CVPI patrol unit, and I have the budget to outfit her the way I want... but I think I am going to stick with my Havis switch panel with the 7 Carling rockers and a 295SLA1 siren.... End Rant

I agree, and this is pretty much all the reasons I like the Rontan IS3000 better. Any button can be programmed to do anything, at any time, for any number of outputs. There is PA, Radio, Volume, and backlight control on the panel, the buttons are designed in a way to give you groups instead of the rows of similar feeling buttons so it is easier to find your siren tones, there are many siren tones (not all but many) it has timers, audible beeps that are assignable, and I can control the TA idicators Like I want. I used to use all whelen cencom, but after using the Rontan Once, I can say whelen needs to step it up. Now I have not used the saphire system, but I have used the Red, and the gold and the IS3000 is deffinitly better and has more capabilities.
 

factorone33

Member
Jun 13, 2010
492
Merriam, KS
WIRED HDH said:
I agree, and this is pretty much all the reasons I like the Rontan IS3000 better. Any button can be programmed to do anything, at any time, for any number of outputs. There is PA, Radio, Volume, and backlight control on the panel, the buttons are designed in a way to give you groups instead of the rows of similar feeling buttons so it is easier to find your siren tones, there are many siren tones (not all but many) it has timers, audible beeps that are assignable, and I can control the TA idicators Like I want. I used to use all whelen cencom, but after using the Rontan Once, I can say whelen needs to step it up. Now I have not used the saphire system, but I have used the Red, and the gold and the IS3000 is deffinitly better and has more capabilities.

The CenCom Sapphire has the same options. Drag and drop functions on to buttons after you clear them, and they'll do practically whatever you want.


Whelen HAS stepped it up, for what it's worth, with CanTrol and CanTrol WC. No other manufacturer on the market can claim to have a system that is equal in any context to either of those systems, period. Of course, it's more difficult to get ahold of one of those systems, and it takes awhile to learn, but once learned, it's better than anything out there. And it's not much more expensive than the CenCom, cost-wise.
 

EMT-BLS

New Member
Oct 28, 2011
2,640
Waterbury, CT
factorone33 said:
No other manufacturer on the market can claim to have a system that is equal in any context to either of those systems, period.

Well, why would they? No one seems to have nailed down exactly why someone would need to attend a training course on how to use a glorified controller...and then it can only be able to be used on new tech.
 

fleetcomm

Member
Sep 2, 2011
717
south of nowhere
I have some CanTol units and I would have to agree there is nothing else on the market that comes close to these controlers.
 

fleetcomm

Member
Sep 2, 2011
717
south of nowhere
EMT-BLS said:
Well, why would they? No one seems to have nailed down exactly why someone would need to attend a training course on how to use a glorified controller...and then it can only be able to be used on new tech.

Because it is very effective to sync all your lights and make them do what you want them to do. I thought the same thing about the training but, after being in the class for about 20 minutes I found out why it required two day of training. The controller can be used on any lighthead that will steady burn.
 

Zoe

Member
May 28, 2010
776
Deerfield MA
From a usability stand point, I hate the fact that he CenComs were clearly designed by an engineer and not an industrial designer.


Multiple small square buttons arranged in rows. The only thing that differentiates one button from another is what the legend says.


I hate having to look down and read/study my control head just to find the right button for the option I want.
 

ford-dealer

Member
Sep 2, 2010
857
San Antonio
All I was trying to say was this: An MPC01 allows for a ton of programming freedom... I was just saying that the MPC03 Cencom Systems SHOULD have been made with AT LEAST the same programming capabilites. Just saying!
 

RecElect

Member
Jan 26, 2011
331
Loveland, Colorado
factorone33 said:
The CenCom Sapphire has the same options. Drag and drop functions on to buttons after you clear them, and they'll do practically whatever you want.

Whelen HAS stepped it up, for what it's worth, with CanTrol and CanTrol WC. No other manufacturer on the market can claim to have a system that is equal in any context to either of those systems, period. Of course, it's more difficult to get ahold of one of those systems, and it takes awhile to learn, but once learned, it's better than anything out there. And it's not much more expensive than the CenCom, cost-wise.

Yeah, I actually just saw the Cantrol system today as we are working on building harnesses for a company that is starting to use it. It is pretty bad ass, and deffinitly a game changer, however It DEFFINITLY changes the cost of harnesses and installation in both materials and time it takes to hook everything up. Honestly, I get why an ambulance could really benefit from something like a cantrol system, but not necessarily why a patrol car does. Is it cool that I can have specific lights do specific things when I want them too? Yes, But is it really a requirement to have EVERY light be able to have more then a flash function? And worth the added expense of the harness and install cost? I am not convinced... Plus if i understood it correctly, it still uses the same old square button controller, and takes a huge ammount of time to program for the car. On a fleet of cars, ok, but if your doing "onse's", it seems like a rediculous expense IMHO.


Now give me a warning light that is "addressable" and only requires a power, ground, and communications wire and we might be on to something. Assign lights "addresses" that allows the control unit to tell the different lights apart, and tell it when to turn on and off. Then we can run 3-4 wires throughout the entire vehicle for the warning light system, yet still have control of lights individually.... ah but that is just dreaming for now... :)


BTW, I am a Whelen fan, and love most of their products, but I still think for an all around controller that has a ton of function, easy to use design, and every feature you need in a patrol vehicle, Rontan really hit the nail on the head and is better all around than the Cencom. Now the flash patterns in some of the functions of the Rontan lightbars, could use some work and could take a page out of the whelen book... ! :)
 

Andy L.

Member
Jun 16, 2010
282
Michigan
WIRED HDH said:
Now give me a warning light that is "addressable" and only requires a power, ground, and communications wire and we might be on to something. Assign lights "addresses" that allows the control unit to tell the different lights apart, and tell it when to turn on and off. Then we can run 3-4 wires throughout the entire vehicle for the warning light system, yet still have control of lights individually.... ah but that is just dreaming for now... :)

CanTrol with the new expansion packs does essentially just what you describe. Mount one up front and each light connects to it instead of running a separate wire for each light back to the controller, same for the rear. Personally I think it greatly reduces what needs to go into "prefabricated" harnesses. The newest version of CanTrol WC is much, much more simplified than the original CanTrol software. If you can navigate through CenCom Sapphire software then CanTrol WC will be of no worries.


From an installer point of view I think CanTrol is worth every penny, even if only using basic functions of the system, for the smallest to biggest department. With a few simple clicks CanTrol will do what many of us spend hours trying to accomplish with relays, diodes, multi mode flashers, etc. Emergency lights are much more than just blinkies on a car which we have discussed at great length already on ELB. Even the most basic of setups with a lightbar, grille lights, deck lights, and LAW's can be controlled properly with this system and provide correct messages without the operator having to change anything. The increased cost is easily off set by a competent installer who will easily save time installing this system over more traditional methods. I think the biggest flaw at this point is the limited availability of the CanTrol components only from authorized dealers.
 

RecElect

Member
Jan 26, 2011
331
Loveland, Colorado
Andy L. said:
CanTrol with the new expansion packs does essentially just what you describe. Mount one up front and each light connects to it instead of running a separate wire for each light back to the controller, same for the rear. Personally I think it greatly reduces what needs to go into "prefabricated" harnesses. The newest version of CanTrol WC is much, much more simplified than the original CanTrol software. If you can navigate through CenCom Sapphire software then CanTrol WC will be of no worries.

From an installer point of view I think CanTrol is worth every penny, even if only using basic functions of the system, for the smallest to biggest department. With a few simple clicks CanTrol will do what many of us spend hours trying to accomplish with relays, diodes, multi mode flashers, etc. Emergency lights are much more than just blinkies on a car which we have discussed at great length already on ELB. Even the most basic of setups with a lightbar, grille lights, deck lights, and LAW's can be controlled properly with this system and provide correct messages without the operator having to change anything. The increased cost is easily off set by a competent installer who will easily save time installing this system over more traditional methods. I think the biggest flaw at this point is the limited availability of the CanTrol components only from authorized dealers.

Not really exactly what I want. I want the lights to communicate with each other! :) Sounds like the system is much like a vmux or isis system....


You don't have to tell me the lights are more than just blinkies. We do plenty of custom work and are very well versed in what is considered safe or effective.


Meanwhile, back on topic of the cencom saphire.....
 

Forum Statistics

Threads
53,962
Messages
449,805
Members
19,102
Latest member
Hilux01

About Us

  • Since 1997, eLightbars has been the premier venue for all things emergency warning equipment. Discussions, classified listings, pictures, videos, chat, & more! Our staff members strive to keep the forums organized and clutter-free. All of our offerings are free-of-charge with all costs offset by banner advertising. Premium offerings are available to improve your experience.

User Menu

Secure Browsing & Transactions

eLightbars.org uses SSL to secure all traffic between our server and your browsing device. All browsing and transactions within are secured by an SSL Certificate with high-strength encryption.