Code 3 vs Whelen

henryg

New Member
May 24, 2010
7
USA, Illinois
Hello Everyone. I am on the Apparatus Specification committee and we are lucky enough to be able to spec out a new engine, ambulance and command vehicle. On the subject of warning lights, our FD mechanic (also on the committee) asked us to consider Code 3 over Whelen lights. Most of our fleet is already Whelen. He gave no reasons. I was wondering why he might say this. Thanks in advance. Henry
 
May 21, 2010
1,176
NJ & IA
Code 3 is good for somethings, but not others. I would not recommend using code 3 for any of the applications. I do not think they have any units that truly belong there. You would have to do a combination of whelen and code 3, with whelen filling in code 3's gaps. It would just be easier to do Whelen. While not bashing Code 3, I just feel they are more suitable for police vehicles, etc.
 

grfd711

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,546
Sherwood, AR
From what I can gather of Code 3 lighting, as an individual and NOT as a dealer or salesperson, the Whelen will be more affordable. As far as my opinion on the lighting output, the Whelen will far exceed the Code 3's capabilities.
 

DMac

Member
Jun 27, 2010
17
To answer your question with my take on it:


The Code 3 rep around here introduced a deal to a friend of mine who was on a truck committee. He was offered a "kick-back" if you will, to get Code 3 products spec'd on their next department truck. Our dept is all Federal Signal (Candy-Cane bars, etc). He offered him an interior lightbar for free if he was able to get the specs written around C3 products. He said once the truck was delivered, my friend needed to take pics of the entire lighting package and send them to the rep. Once he did all this, he'd get his free bar.


Not sure if this is the same deal with your guy or not.


(PS, we ended up going Fed Sig for the lighting package. The chief really pushed to keep the lights nearly the same. Some perimeter stuff is LED on it instead of strobe/halogen. Same Aerodynic in Halogen though.....)
 

colby4601

Member
May 23, 2010
64
Southeastern Saskatchewan
Go with Whelen. The new Code 3 LED stuff I have used on a bright, sunny day in the middle of the highway almost got me hit. You can't see it worth a darn. Those lights went right back to the dealer.
 

Alovebaby41

Member
May 23, 2010
354
Texas
I would go with Whelen for a lot of reasons. 1: Made in America. 2: All other warning equipment is Whelen so keep the trend going. 3: Much Better Customer Support. 4: Lower Pricing. 5: Just a better product. 6: Whelen can cover all of your lighting needs so no need to mix and match.
 

jonny521

Member
May 23, 2010
300
mass
grfd711 said:
From what I can gather of Code 3 lighting, as an individual and NOT as a dealer or salesperson, the Whelen will be more affordable. As far as my opinion on the lighting output, the Whelen will far exceed the Code 3's capabilities.

im def with you on that one. code 3's prices can be outragous sometimes depending on the application. so in my eyes i would go with whelen.
 

Boss429

Member
May 21, 2010
261
Pennsylvania
We have code 3 on our newest Engine...The lightbar is not that bright you can stare at it at night and not see spots. The perimeter warning lights are pretty decent, but for the price not worth it. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUUVcrw22jQ


Go with Whelen, or Federal Signal if you can. The New FedSig Legend lightbar is super bright, My chief just bought one! :D
 

usdemt

Member
May 21, 2010
195
Vermillion SD
I havent ever been a big Code 3 LED fan but they do have stuff that works, and my opinion on it all is that you go with the product that will fit the application and perform the best. If you want to sync put it on an external flasher. So if a Code 3 light head is going to fit better and still perform as well I will go with it.
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
usdemt said:
I havent ever been a big Code 3 LED fan but they do have stuff that works, and my opinion on it all is that you go with the product that will fit the application and perform the best. If you want to sync put it on an external flasher. So if a Code 3 light head is going to fit better and still perform as well I will go with it.
Code 3 also has some pretty mean halogen options. Halogen may be going out of style but I still like it best.


Brighter is not necessarily better, but whatever works, works.
 

strobenj

Member
Jul 16, 2010
33
Clifton, NJ
DMac said:
To answer your question with my take on it:

The Code 3 rep around here introduced a deal to a friend of mine who was on a truck committee. He was offered a "kick-back" if you will, to get Code 3 products spec'd on their next department truck. Our dept is all Federal Signal (Candy-Cane bars, etc). He offered him an interior lightbar for free if he was able to get the specs written around C3 products. He said once the truck was delivered, my friend needed to take pics of the entire lighting package and send them to the rep. Once he did all this, he'd get his free bar.


Not sure if this is the same deal with your guy or not.


(PS, we ended up going Fed Sig for the lighting package. The chief really pushed to keep the lights nearly the same. Some perimeter stuff is LED on it instead of strobe/halogen. Same Aerodynic in Halogen though.....)

A couple of years ago when we were buying a pumper we specified all Whelen but for some reason the spec kept coming back Code 3. The salesman for the truck was insistent that we use Code 3 not Whelen. We had no idea why until someone on the committee found out that Code 3 was "kicking back" (or as we termed it "bribing") the truck salesman to spec Code 3. We promptly threw the salesman out and that truck manufacturer lost our sale.


I don't care if it is lights, ladders, brass, hose, or whatever. If someone is recommending (or insisting) that a certain product is being used simply because they are getting paid on the side from a certain company that is unacceptable.


The first question we ask any salesman now when they recommend something is why they recommend it over another product and if they are getting compensated to do so.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
Alovebaby41 said:
I would go with Whelen for a lot of reasons. 1: Made in America. 2: All other warning equipment is Whelen so keep the trend going. 3: Much Better Customer Support. 4: Lower Pricing. 5: Just a better product. 6: Whelen can cover all of your lighting needs so no need to mix and match.
+1


Whelen is the best all around supplier.. Price, product line etc


However I think I could outfit any emergency vehicle with all code 3, tomar, whelen or federal very nicely. All the major manufacturers make great products that more than meet the current industry standards.
 

VolEms

Member
May 24, 2010
2,112
NY, USA
I like tomar and Whelen. Code 3 makes some nice products like the LS222 LED beacon I use a lot for throw lights. Every company has items that are good. In NY everyone wants the Federal Signal SS2000 for POV's but not their LED's. The only thing I would not but from code 3 is the surface mounted lights they are not bright. The Whelen super 700 and 900 or M7 M9 and Tomar surface mounted lights are much brighter.
 

TNFF412N

Member
May 22, 2010
387
San Antonio, Texas
i would go back and ask him why he wants code3 over Whelen, he might have a good reason, it might know of some issues you guys ahve been having witht he lighting that others might not know about... my choice is Whelen/Federal Signal/Tomar, we have an engine with all code3 and its bright but all halogen, mind you the truck is 30 years old and was redone 15 years ago.......
 

TCO

Member
May 21, 2010
808
Malvern,Pa
i would look at the industry standard,65-75% if not more of all new apparatus is rolling off the line with whelen warning lights. that alone should tell you something. not saying code 3,fedsig,etc are bad lights,just that whelen has a larger array of options and better prices
 

led0987

Member
Jul 13, 2010
34
Joplin, MO
nerdly_dood said:
Code 3 also has some pretty mean halogen options. Halogen may be going out of style but I still like it best.


Brighter is not necessarily better, but whatever works, works.

No judgment from me, but I am just curious; why do you like Halogen best? Any reason you feel Halogen out performs LED?

I havent ever been a big Code 3 LED fan but they do have stuff that works, and my opinion on it all is that you go with the product that will fit the application and perform the best. If you want to sync put it on an external flasher. So if a Code 3 light head is going to fit better and still perform as well I will go with it.

The new M heads from Whelen have internal flashers that allow other light heads to sync without the need for an external flasher.


Just FYI.
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
led0987 said:
No judgment from me, but I am just curious; why do you like Halogen best? Any reason you feel Halogen out performs LED?
It's bright and plenty effective, without being blinding. Don't tell me you haven't been driving at night and seen a curve ahead glowing blue and then you go around it and BAM you're blind, all you can see is this blue blur? (Or red or whatever) Halogen doesn't do that. If halogen is done properly, as in, you get the most out of each rotator that you can, then it's very effective. As in, don't use clear outer domes, and make sure the domes aren't foggy. Do that and the "POP" will make you as visible as LEDs without blinding people.


Even better, now that I think of it, is a halogen and strobe combination - 2 or 3 rotators plus front and rear strobes, you just can't beat it. That's why I love the MX7000, it's available with any amount of any kind of light and in pretty much any size.


Within the LED category, Whelen gets the cheese, hands down, but I prefer other types of lights.
 

Stendec

Member
May 21, 2010
816
It's already been alluded to, but spec'ing things by an individual company is getting into shaky ethical and legal grounds. Bids and specs can pretty much be written so that only certain products qualify, which is why you see so many PDs with GLOCKs, and now S&W M&Ps, but you need to be careful. If you were to be working for a .gov agency, and a company rep offered something of value, no matter if it went to the agency or a person, if you went with their product, well, people go to prison for that.
 

NJEMT

Member
May 22, 2010
377
Essex County, NJ
At my squad we have a code 3 bar and code 3 siren on a Durango its a nice bar i like its just a shit layout with the bar too far back to be usefull, but the taillight strobes are whelen and we have 2 single avengers in the rear. Would I have perfered a Liberty on it yea, but i didnt have a say because it is a town vehicle

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100_0685.JPG
 

Mike L.

Member
May 21, 2010
261
Everett, WA
My personal opinion is I love Code3 for their halogen. Whelen just seems to do LED's a little bit better though. Our Special Ops 30 truck is speced with all Code3 halogen lighting and it is definately effective (though they need to replace the Q it sounds like a dying goose).


Rather than come onto this board why not arrange an area demonstration to see for yourself. Obviously if it meets the certs it will be adequate so its left up to personal opinon and what rest of the fleet has.
 

usdemt

Member
May 21, 2010
195
Vermillion SD
led0987 said:
No judgment from me, but I am just curious; why do you like Halogen best? Any reason you feel Halogen out performs LED?


The new M heads from Whelen have internal flashers that allow other light heads to sync without the need for an external flasher.


Just FYI.

I was referring to syncing lightheads from different companies which wont always work with 2 different companies lightheads.
 

Alovebaby41

Member
May 23, 2010
354
Texas
IMO i feel that code 3 did halogen right and thats it. But again i feel halogen just can't keep up isn't effective for many reasons. 1: being amp draw. 2: being size a mx7k on a patrol car just doesn't work the dam thing is huge, but a liberty on a patrol car does the trick just perfectly. 3: Responding code during the day, it is very difficult for me to see halogen in time to make a safe stop and let the vehicle pass. 4: Halogen had it's day and that day is over, it's time to move on and move up to LED. Again just my opinion.
 

cory y

Member
May 21, 2010
1,614
LED isnt the end all of emergency lighting.


ive said it so many times Ive lost count. and Ben and Burt can attest to this, but nothing beats a pair of PAR36 halogen flashers on a slow 90 FPM flasher. Halogen is still very viable as aprimary warning device. As is Strobe.


Just because something is "new" dosent mean that its the perfect device for ever application. the Ideal warning set up utilize all 3 methods, halogen strobe and LED.


other than the amp draw and a variety of flash patterns (too many patterns) is LED really the best out there? is it really the "brightest?"
 

led0987

Member
Jul 13, 2010
34
Joplin, MO
cory y said:
other than the amp draw and a variety of flash patterns (too many patterns) is LED really the best out there? is it really the "brightest?"

Absolutely LED is the brightest option! I am sure others may disagree and that is perfectly fine, but I have done the side by side comparisons myself between all three types (halogen, strobe, and LED) and LED takes it hands down every time by a mile. No one here has yet to mention anything about warranties, which is a factor to consider. LED lights have a no hassle 5 year warranty on them. That means for 5 years, if anything goes wrong, you just box it up and send it back, and get the repaired or replacement unit a few days later.


Strobe tubes burn out, guess what- your paying to replace them. Even it they are only a year old. Also strobes need a power pack somewhere in the vehicle. Not only are you increasing amp draw but you have hundreds upon hundreds of feet of wire in a vehicle you do not need. That means later on in life if your strobe head stops working and its not the tube or the power supply, you have to go hunting through 50+ wire harnesses and hundreds of feet of wire (thinking a pumper or ladder truck) to find the problem.


Yes LED requires wiring also, but its a much more minimal amount. Not to mention you can do a full LED package including a lightbar and not draw more than 40 amps. That is a lot less stress on the electrical system. And with the advancement of new LED scene lighting, you can virtually eliminate a generator from a truck now, or at least drastically reduce the size saving a department thousands of dollars.


I'm sure people will say strobes are brighter, and like I said, that's a perfectly valid opinion, but you also have to weight lots of other factors into the decision besides brightness.


I will say this- regardless of how bright LED bars get, you can still see flashing headlights on a police cruiser before anything else....
 

chono

Member
Jun 5, 2010
496
Midwest
Strobes are actually the brightest but they are blinding. The only application where strobes seem to work well anymore are corner strobes.
 

MikeD

Member
Jul 3, 2010
135
Richmond, MI
If your entire fleet already has Whelen stick with it..... If your like our dept, you have a cabinet of spare bulbs, lenses, etc... Those parts get EXPENSIVE!!! If you start switching up lights then you have to have more parts on hand... More parts = more $$$$
 

hitechrednex

Member
Jul 25, 2010
96
Florida
code 3 is excellent, if you want rotators. i personally prefer them to anybody elses. but if you are going for the modern strobes or LEDs, whelen definately.an edge freedom for a firetruck, and a liberty for a smaller vehicle
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
hitechrednex said:
code 3 is excellent, if you want rotators. i personally prefer them to anybody elses. but if you are going for the modern strobes or LEDs, whelen definately.an edge freedom for a firetruck, and a liberty for a smaller vehicle
Whelen used to make what I think was the most visible rotator bar in the business, the Centurion. But it's discontinued, conveniently, since being so effective required large rotators and having large rotators required a high-profile design, which isn't the norm anymore. While it was used, it was most common on police vehicles in New Jersey.


As for expandability (or shrinkability...) the MX7000 beats all. Anything from a 2-rotator budget bar up to a fully-loaded street sweeper, and just about any amount of any kind of lights were available in whatever combination you thought best, but of course the rotator version was most common. (I've seen it and it's very effective with rotators but I haven't seen a strobe or LED version, but those are out there)
 

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