Concealed carry for firefighters

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
I am soliciting comments.

  • Is it safe to "carry" under turnout gear? (Consider crawling, climbing ladders, extrication activities, etc.)
  • Does your department have a policy addressing this situation? (If not, should it?)
  • Possible benefits vs. risks? (Recent news stories of FFs being shot.)




I know the answers will vary depending on the law in your area.
 

MtnMan

Member
Dec 20, 2012
1,533
Eastern PA
Safe to carry under turnout gear? Yes, as long as the weapon is adequately holstered. Accessible? Not so much.


Risks vs benefits? Realistically, on fire duty or not, I'm much more likely to suffer harm due to a heart attack, MVA, fall, or other accident than from a violent incident. To me, situational awareness, PPE, training, and conditioning are preparations that are highly important to keeping me safe. Carrying a weapon is way down the list.
 

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN

MESDA6

Member
Jun 2, 2010
920
Central IL and PHX
Seems like there's a simple enough solution.


Without getting into the rules, dept policies etc, if a FF or Medic is authorized, every apparatus should have one or two of these vaults mounted to secure the firearm before entering a working fire. http://www.gunvault.com/multivault-biometric-gvb2000.html


If you are authorized, your fingerprints would be stored in the vault and you have access. Anyone who isn't authorized would be unable to open the vault.


For most situations, if you are going to encounter gunfire, it will be either as you arrive on scene or in a call type where you don't need to stow the gun. (Yeah, I know, anything can happen.) I just think this is the simplest solution that will meet the needs 99% of the time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
The issue I would see is entering a hospital or daycare center or other area where carrying is prohibited. Almost seems like more of a liability than an asset to me. I actually carry but not when functioning as a medic because I cannot refuse to go places when on duty. My civilian CCW is subject to various "gun free zones", where as an off duty peace officer may not be.
 
Jul 14, 2010
1,639
S.W. Ohio USA
Many years ago, and way before legal concealed carry came to our state, several of our medics carried. I was on the PD at the time, and we didn't care. It was a really tough area, and the PD was spread pretty thin. They were pretty much on their own.


Of course these days, some rookie hot shot would burn them in a second.
 

OTFD122

Member
May 24, 2010
193
SE Michigan
Working for a Public Safety Dept (cross trained fire/police officers) weapons are always removed and secured prior to donning turnout gear. It is in fact dept policy for safety reasons - not sure if an incident prompted the policy, but they are pretty strict about it.
 

FireEMSPolice

Member
May 21, 2010
3,429
Ohio
JohnMarcson said:
The issue I would see is entering a hospital or daycare center or other area where carrying is prohibited. Almost seems like more of a liability than an asset to me. I actually carry but not when functioning as a medic because I cannot refuse to go places when on duty. My civilian CCW is subject to various "gun free zones", where as an off duty peace officer may not be.

Perhaps in other states its lawful to carry where Ohio does not allow it.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
FireEMSPolice said:
Perhaps in other states its lawful to carry where Ohio does not allow it.

Perhaps it is. OP asked for people's input. I gave my input based on where I live, and disclaimed it as such. I never said that it was impossible everywhere, over even where I live. Obviously elsewhere may be different, there are several online databases of concealed carry laws by state, if you are worried about finding a counter example, use them. The majority I can decipher have restricted zones for civilian ccw. If you are covering an area for fire and ems and carrying, you need to have a plan as to what you will do when called to a zone that makes it some level of crime to carry your weapon. If you can do that without delaying your response, great. In the states where I can carry and/or act as a medic it would be a huge burden for me to have to secure the weapon prior to entering hospitals, schools, businesses etc. If there are ways around this please post them. If anyone can find state that has a ccw exception for fire/ems to get around gun free zones that cripple civilian ccw, post it.


Personal pragmatic considerations aside, the other consideration is what your department will allow. Carrying a firearm in the line of duty as a firefighter/EMT may give you all the problems of a police officer and none of the protections. Your fire/EMS department may have serious issues with you using a civilian ccw to carry while in uniform. A police dept has use of force policies, firearms policies and is setup to have employees carrying sidearms. A fire dept has none of those things, so you are going to have the civilian ccw laws meeting the fire/ems duties to act and implications of uniform. Just be aware of where dept policy, state law and personal comfort level all meet on the issue.


For me it's too much trouble.... however each dept, state and person may have different results. The answer to this question is going to vary greatly by location. Just know your state laws and dept policies on the matter before making a decision.
 

justavillain

Member
Mar 7, 2013
1,010
Grand Rapids
As firefighters, medics, ect we're a natural force. There has been many times violence has been used on us in the past but really what profession hasn't. I know even cable TV workers have been assaulted for not hooking up a connection ect.


When you are armed I think it takes some of that trust out. When it's not summer and I'm in a polo we ware long sleeved uniform shirts and have a badge on them looks a lot like a police officer already add a gun and why not call me a pso.


If you need to be armed you shouldn't be in there. Remember scene safe, ppe....
 

ryan81986

Member
Apr 13, 2011
524
Boston, MA
A gun should be safe underneath turnout gear. The same thermal barrier that protects the firefighter would also protect the gun. However there is enough crap dangling off of you to worry about without worrying about a gun on your hip.
 

PJD642

New Member
May 20, 2010
1,543
east of Cleveland
Jarred J. said:
and apparently the very long thread about this was a few forums back is gone...

I deeply miss that old thread, where someone was advocating rifles be carried on firetrucks as a regular thing. Pretty sure Stendec was in agreement with that idea too.
 

Doug

Member
May 23, 2010
1,151
Maryland
PJD642 said:
I deeply miss that old thread, where someone was advocating rifles be carried on firetrucks as a regular thing. Pretty sure Stendec was in agreement with that idea too.

Yes, I believe he was. I also recall he took issue with EMS staging for scene security issues.
 

Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
When I worked non emergency transport EMS I carried a small .22 Beretta in my pocket at all times. And as a volly firefighter in famous North US-Highway 281 near the border where in a regular thing we have illegal aliens running around the back of our fire station and trying to break into our fire trucks Yes we pack heat. I carry in my pocket a small Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm and several other firefighters carry also. Our fire station is along a corridor used for drug ship ments and crossing illegals in a very very rural part of the county. Border patrol usually hang out near our fire station due to the illegals always coming by asking for water and directions.
 

Turd Ferguson

Member
Jul 3, 2011
2,250
Sumner, Wa
Station 3 said:
Border patrol usually hang out near our fire station due to the illegals always coming by asking for...directions.

"Sure! Get on that government looking bus right over there and it'll take you exactly where you need to go."


I can absolutely picture a CBP agent telling a jumper that when asked for directions.
 

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN
unfortunately with our current administration thta bus would have to stop by a hospital so pregnant women can have free new american citizens, then they stop by the food stamp office, then the dmv, thne the SSA, then a local voting location. :crazy:
 

tnems7

Member
May 21, 2010
407
USA Nashville Tennessee
My brother was a USAF Crash Fire Rescue tech in Korea. Their crews carried folding stock automatic rifles under their turnout coats whenever any aircraft with nuclear weapons might be on base.


And many of our tactical medics are specially commissioned LEOs to authorize them to carry. But in general, I agree the best policy is to get law enforcement on scene as part of the total public safety agency response.
 

emt322636

Member
May 22, 2010
505
Watertown, NY
tnems7 said:
My brother was a USAF Crash Fire Rescue tech in Korea. Their crews carried folding stock automatic rifles under their turnout coats whenever any aircraft with nuclear weapons might be on base.

I wasn't there, and I realize there's probably no way prove it, but I gotta throw the BS flag on that...
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Jarred J. said:
come on jazz you've been here long enough to not know how to search!

Seems like a few people thought it was different enough to warrant it's own discussion.


:eyebrowhuh:
 

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN
it had a 7 page discussion 3 boards back.... the only discussion it needed....


last time I checked ff do emt work and in some cases vice versa therefore making them related... it didn't say police officers... :duh:
 

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