Well my agency finds out tomorrow if our county commissioners are going to raise the sales tax in our county .25% to bring our county budget back into the black. Currently our sales tax is among the lowest in the state of ohio at 6.25%, which raising it .25% will put us on par with the rest of the state. Our county is the 8th largest in the state of ohio and if the sales tax is not raised, the sheriff's office, which provides police protection to 9 unincorporated townships will lose its road patrol division. We will see what happens. The good news for me is that upon completion of a few more steps in the hiring process, I will be going to work in city of covington, kentucky police department so when or if i lose my job i will just have to get thru the steps there to get a job. I never thought I would see this day come...
County eliminating road patrol..
- Thread starter Jasen Hatfield
- Start date
FireEMSPolice
Member
This is why I would never work the road patrol for a Sheriff in the State of Ohio. I am really sorry you have to go through this and wish you luck.
For those that dont know, in Ohio the county Sheriff, by law, does not have to provide a road patrol. The Sheriff is only responsible for running the jail and court duties. Typically, one of the first things to go is road patrol. If you want to protect your township, form your own PD or contract to the Sheriff.
I have friends in a few Sheriffs Office's which went through the same thing. They were laid off, brought back, laid off again, brought back again. One Sheriff comissioned the laid off guys as Special Deputies so they can hold their commission.
Just curious, can you use your OPOTA comission in KY or do you need another academy? How does that work?
For those that dont know, in Ohio the county Sheriff, by law, does not have to provide a road patrol. The Sheriff is only responsible for running the jail and court duties. Typically, one of the first things to go is road patrol. If you want to protect your township, form your own PD or contract to the Sheriff.
I have friends in a few Sheriffs Office's which went through the same thing. They were laid off, brought back, laid off again, brought back again. One Sheriff comissioned the laid off guys as Special Deputies so they can hold their commission.
Just curious, can you use your OPOTA comission in KY or do you need another academy? How does that work?
FireEMSPolice said:
We have done the same thing, we have laid guys off, brought them back, and now if this sales tax isn't raised they will be laid off again. They are still holding the commissions of the laid off deputies as specials. As far as transferring to KY, they have reciprocity with Ohio and I will be required to take a 40-hour law refresher course according to the Kentucky Law Enforcement Council for my OPOTA cert to transfer. The only kicker is that once I go to KY, I cannot hold a commission in any other state. So where I had no plans on moving since KY is only 30 mins away, I was gonna try to hold dual commissions in both states but I can't do that now.
Kentucky arguably has a "better" LE structure in that there are elected county Sheriffs, but counties can also form county police departments, which de-politicizes LE services, well, at least as much as possible. If they still have elected Jailers, that leaves the Sheriff's office pretty much to serving papers. By statute, they are also required to inspect every "roadhouse" in the county annually.
If you do jump to Kentucky, unless they've changed it, as part of your commissioning process you will have to swear under oath that you have never, nor will you in the future, participated in a duel, either as a principle or a second, so if there is anything you need to "creatively articulate," be forewarned.
If you do jump to Kentucky, unless they've changed it, as part of your commissioning process you will have to swear under oath that you have never, nor will you in the future, participated in a duel, either as a principle or a second, so if there is anything you need to "creatively articulate," be forewarned.
HFD eng1ine
Member
my theory on crap like this is lay off the 8 secretaries that are not need for the county and keep the safety of the citizens in the highest priority.
patrol530
Member
Well, in Ohio, the Sheriff's office is THE high law. They have ultimate jurisdiction. In the little "who's d#ck is bigger" run ins, where agencies fight over a call, the SO in Ohio is even above the State Highway Patrol.
FireEMSPolice
Member
ParkPiggy said:
That dosent make sense to me. Why is a county LEO more powerful than a state one?
Most county Sheriff's have more power than any state agency. That is the way it works here in NC.
dustymedic
Member
The Buckeye State Sheriffs Association has a very strong lobbying presence in Ohio. They have successfully fought off many attempts to make the State Highway Patrol a State Police agency. OSP Troopers have very little authority regarding non traffic incidents except for when on state property...
Yeah, the Sheriff is it - The State Patrol is just that, though they do handle criminal investigations on state property. Troopers didn't have peace officer powers until about 20 years ago, and BCI agents less.. That's also about the time that Ohio Sheriffs were required to meet peace officer training standards themselves. Before that, if they were elected they weren't required to have any LE training or background, and would sit through a 2 week Sheriff's school that dealt with critical issues like how to hold a Sheriff's sale and calculating mileage and fees for serving subpoenas.
Dead on about the BSSA, though their point is largely moot - between OSP, BCI and the DPS Investigative Unit, Ohio essentially has state police, though they are in separate departments and don't always play well together.
Useless trivia: The "sheriff" originated as the Shire Reeve, or King's tax collector in each Shire in England during the Middle Ages. I believe that there is still a ceremonial "Sheriff" in London, but culturally the British are supposed to have despised their Sheriffs as the King's toadies. An American Sheriff told me he got needled constantly, in a good-natured way, during an exchange program with the UK police.
It's really an archaic way of policing, but then so is having popular elections for those technical county positions like coroner, auditor and engineer. The upside is that it allows the population to have direct input into how they are policed.
Dead on about the BSSA, though their point is largely moot - between OSP, BCI and the DPS Investigative Unit, Ohio essentially has state police, though they are in separate departments and don't always play well together.
Useless trivia: The "sheriff" originated as the Shire Reeve, or King's tax collector in each Shire in England during the Middle Ages. I believe that there is still a ceremonial "Sheriff" in London, but culturally the British are supposed to have despised their Sheriffs as the King's toadies. An American Sheriff told me he got needled constantly, in a good-natured way, during an exchange program with the UK police.
It's really an archaic way of policing, but then so is having popular elections for those technical county positions like coroner, auditor and engineer. The upside is that it allows the population to have direct input into how they are policed.
FireEMSPolice
Member
I wish Ohio Sheriffs were appointed, much like a County Police. I live in a City so we have a police chief. I have no say in their appointment so I cant have direct input really.
crescentstar69
Member
FireEMSPolice said:
Appointments are way more political, and besides, your say is who you vote for.
MATT3045
Member
The thing I think is funny is that a sheriff in Ohio does not has to be a comissioned officer. In Summit County, a few Sheriffs ago, one was not a comissioned officer, he was a retired business man.
FireEMSPolice said:
Actually, Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), will in January 2011 switch to a Charter form of governance. Summit County (Akron) was the first in Ohio to do so. Eliminating the elected county commissioners, in favor of a single elected county executive and elected council. They combined previously elected positions into one office-like the treasurer and auditor are now the county fiscal officer. In Summit, everything is pretty much still elected, except for the county medical examiner. When Cuyahoga's government kicks in to gear in January, most of the potions will be appointed-including the Sheriff. Cuyahoga is a completely different beast then Hamilton. The Cuyahoga Sheriff basically has NO road patrol, and has not had any for as long as I can remember. Cuyahoga is pretty much a fully developed county, with no rural areas. Every city has their own PDs. The Cuyahoga Sheriff does have some warrant units, drug enforcement, and other specialized units that mostly work with other PDs. They will throw a couple deps in a car every now and then, and send them into beautiful locals like East Cleveland to play.
patrol530
Member
No need for LEO experience here to be Sheriff either. Win the election and you're in . Make it 2 terms, and you've got a retirement check, forever. Need business skills to deal with budgets and such, above and beyond any police related matters.MATT3045 said:
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
FireEMSPolice
Member
crescentstar69 said:
Chiefs serve at the pleasure of the mayor.
In a town near where I grew up, they Mayor and the Chief got in to a pissing match. They mayor had all the locks changed at the PD, essentially locking out the chief. Nobody was permitted to let him in. He resigned and sued, and won a settlement because of the manner in which things went down.
Here in NY (allegany county) our sheriffs office is one of few that does not do a road patrol, we are covered by the state police. So you can imagine there are times when you have to wait for law enforcement to clear a call or come from the other side of the county. And now with the current state budget the state police are cutting 11% of there employees, and cutting their dispatchers completely. Here our county has absorbed 90% of the sp radio traffic and will be taking all of it soon..........
Bigassfireman
Member
Actually, in Ohio, I believe the Sheriff has authority/jurisdiction over/in any city and you should be able to vote for them.FireEMSPolice said:
dustymedic
Member
About 20 some years ago, there was talk of forming a Franklin County Metro PD. Columbus Police Chief said he should be in charge since his department was the largest in the county. Sheriff said he should in charge because the sheriff is the chief LEO in the county under ORC. Neither would budge, talks over...
well the county commissioners had their scheduled meeting this morning and the sales tax was discussed. they have decided to hold 2 budget workshop meetings this week and will decided on nov. 29th on whether or not to move forward with the required steps in raising the sales tax to stop our hemmorhagic budget.
http://www.local12.com/news/local/story ... lugPQ.cspx
http://www.local12.com/news/local/story ... lugPQ.cspx
crescentstar69
Member
http://www.wdsu.com/r/25885167/detail.html?taf=no
Kind of interesting related to the elected/appointed discussions. Harahan, Louisiana's ELECTED police chief plans on revoking honorary commissions. I think most appointed town police chiefs are puppets for the mayor/council. I think electing them isn't a bad idea.
Kind of interesting related to the elected/appointed discussions. Harahan, Louisiana's ELECTED police chief plans on revoking honorary commissions. I think most appointed town police chiefs are puppets for the mayor/council. I think electing them isn't a bad idea.
FireEMSPolice
Member
Bigassfireman said:
The Sheriff is the law of the land in Ohio. I was just saying I never use their services since I live in a City.
dustymedic said:
It is somewhat in the process of happening in Akron-Summit County. About 2 years ago, the city and sheriff's office entered into a weird agreement. They are doing a study to merge dispatch (akron only dispatches akron, the SO dispatches an additional 3 police departments and an FD). There is a SO brass, who holds a director type position, and is in between the chief of police and the mayor. The city PD is essential reporting to the Sheriff's Office. The command structure change up was part of a second study, to look at ways to "share resources".
There are over 15 other PDs in the county. If/when Akron and the Sheriff merge, they new "county" police will likely have countywide jurisdiction. But, with 15 PDs, I don't see many of them signing on to also merge into the new department. There has been plenty of talk of regionalism between departments, but local councils and trustees do not want to relinquish any control.
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
they should just follow nashvilles way.
metropolitan davidson conuty police.
or would the county and city governments have to be a metro for that to happen?
metropolitan davidson conuty police.
or would the county and city governments have to be a metro for that to happen?
Bigassfireman
Member
Gotcha, i was misreading your statement. You have no say in the city police chief. I never undestood why they just don't hire enough S.O.to cover the cities and let them contract them like so many of us do in sall towns.FireEMSPolice said:
In MANY MANY counties in Ohio, the Sheriff's office is one of the patronage departments. Its not as bad in larger counties like Hamilton, Franklin, Summit, or Cuyahoga. But in the smaller counties, you'll see a whole lot of the same last names in the department rooster.
In northeast Ohio, I can think of only 1 city who has the SO contracted for patrol-Green in Summit county. Its a smaller city, maybe about 8k people. The SOs up here have no contracts for any other cities, or even villages, just two small townships. Towns want control, and that is the main reason I see them keeping their own departments, over the SO.
In northeast Ohio, I can think of only 1 city who has the SO contracted for patrol-Green in Summit county. Its a smaller city, maybe about 8k people. The SOs up here have no contracts for any other cities, or even villages, just two small townships. Towns want control, and that is the main reason I see them keeping their own departments, over the SO.
11b101abn
New Member
cory y said:
The office of sheriff derives its powers form the state's constitution, not from state statute, like the state police.
Here in GA. The county govt cannot prevent the sheriff from spending what he needs to fulfil his duties. This has been reinforced in the courts recently.
Well I guess I'm just used to how its done down here where there is a pretty clear hiarchy of LEO staring at the top with the Texas Rangers, then the DPS (troopers) then county constables, then sheriff, then muni pd, then "special" pds like hospital, school district, etc
dustymedic
Member
11b101abn said:
In Ohio, The Sheriff can only work with what funds the 3 elected county commissioners give him...
well...despite our county being in a 6.9 million deficit and holding the 2nd lowest sales tax in the state of ohio at 6.25% (83 out of 88 counties have sales taxes at 6.5% or higher) and without it passing the county is facing severe cuts and possibly declaring a fiscal emergency, our commissioners have decided not to raise the sales tax .25%. now it is just a waiting game while they sharpen the budget axe and figure out what they are going to cut. it sucks, but i imagine in 2-3 months i will be out of a job and butler county will no longer have a road patrol division to patrol the un-incorporated parts of the county, which that is roughly 65% of the county with over 120,000 residents :shock: .
HILO
Member
cory y said:
Constables are civil and not over the sheriff, nor over other leo's. They have precinct jurisdiction or county wide depending on population. They are the county equal to city marshals. Most hospital and state collage police are state police.
11b101abn
New Member
I think that the Office of Sheriff in TX is almost the same as in Ga. By that I mean it's a constitutional position.