does the market really need another beacon?

Alex@Feniex

New Member
Nov 10, 2013
24
Austin, TX
After reviewing our 2016 product road map we are left at a crossroad. The beacon! We have a lot of cool stuff in the works for 2016 however should we make time to develop a beacon? We see it as a "lets get it out of the way" project. The industry already has 1,000 different versions that range from $10 to $600. If we do develop one we plan to make it the brightest and most feature packed beacon in the market however do you see any other value in Feniex bringing one to market?

Thoughts?
 
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okc_f150

Member
Oct 3, 2013
318
Oklahoma City
For some people that want to be low-profile but still have to be 360 compliant, a beacon is an easy answer.

Yes, there are tons of them out there, yes there are lots of different prices, but Feniex doesn't make one. 

With the new Widelux lights breaking into the apparatus market, I'd imagine a beacon or something similar to the *cough* Whelen *cough* Rotabeam would be a logical next step.

Are there dual color beacons out there? Are the beacons with multiple modes?
 

bullfrog4ever

Member
May 29, 2014
336
Indiana
For some people that want to be low-profile but still have to be 360 compliant, a beacon is an easy answer.

Yes, there are tons of them out there, yes there are lots of different prices, but Feniex doesn't make one. 

With the new Widelux lights breaking into the apparatus market, I'd imagine a beacon or something similar to the *cough* Whelen *cough* Rotabeam would be a logical next step.

Are there dual color beacons out there? Are the beacons with multiple modes?

Agreed, I would love to see a strong led Rotabeam competitor from Feniex.  Maybe Cobra version and Apollo Dual Color version both with 2-3 modes.  I'm sure Feniex could easily create one at a great price too. Make it affordable for the everyday Joe to aquire a rotator look, with the high performance of your leds.  

As I've gotten more into lights, I found a new passion for old school rotators. I would also love to see, down the road, a Feniex rotator type bar. But that's just me.  I think many people here would love to see that.

If I wasn't going for a more undercover look with the Feniex lights, I was going to use a Whelen led rotabeam.  I'm glad I went with Feniex, but the rotator look is still something I love and is still desirable.  My 2 cents...
 
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7d9_z28

New Member
Mar 15, 2012
3,048
West Michigan
Sure, why not?

The markets has thousands of lightbars and sirens, but if you guys can step up to the plate and do those better why not make a beacon too?
 

sheazle

Member
May 31, 2013
185
Missouri
Although I'm not usually a fan of LED "rotators" on principle (you have like a thousand LED's and only like 10 of them on at a time), there is no denying the effectiveness of "moving" vs "flashing" lights.

I almost built some "rotators" for an MX7000, I was going to place some vertical T3's in a circle and flash them with one of the rotating patterns on a ULF44, but the cost to do the whole bar that way made it cheaper to buy a used LED bar for that truck.

I do like actual moving LED lights like Power Arc and the Fed Sig SLR rotators, but this adds mechanical complexity to the point of comparable cost with the downside of increased maintenance and failure modes.

I'm sure whatever you guys come up with will be an innovative take on the idea with a competitive price point, just like the rest of your products. I'll look forward to seeing some more about this in the future.
 
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May 21, 2010
1,030
LKN, NC
Depends on what market you're targeting.  Are we considering beacons for permanent mounting (like utility or fire apparatus)?  Or are we considering beacons for throw lights?  I think there are plenty of larger form factor beacons for permanent mounting, but I don't think there are enough good throw lights out there.
 

RecElect

Member
Jan 26, 2011
331
Loveland, Colorado
yes!

I was looking for a beacon the other day and wished Feniex would have one.

there are dual color options,
The code 3 Arch beacon is dual color-ish, and it is stupid bright, but it is also $450 each. I think it is a decent platform though. There is options for a warning light and work light function, the work light pointing at your hosebed on fire apparatus, warning light to the rear. 

My suggestions:

True dual color, so I can run it as red/amber, blue/amber. The white work light is cool, but I am not sure it is or would be effective enough to make a difference. I would use blue/amber as well for plow trucks, so it can run amber in the summer, and amber/blue in the winter.

There should be a "Front cut" on it, so when mounted on the back of an apparatus, it will not flash to the front. When this happens, it reflects in the mirrors and blinds the drivers.  or have patterns that are based on a 90 degree platform, or "oscillating" 90 degrees. Rotating into the apparatus and to the front is a waste and I think it would be appreciated having the option to turn that part of the beacon "off".

still multiple input, so maybe we can flash the beacon or rotate it depending on what it is used on and for.

I wouldn't mind seeing a half size Apollo mini bar, so it would mount better to the sides of a headache rack.

on fire apparatus, the bigger the footprint the better.
 

bluestinger90

Member
Jun 5, 2010
657
BC / California
Feniex used to make a led beacon before. What was the reason for discontinuing it? Can that reason be applied to the current market?

I'd love to see an enhanced apollo f6 light that can do what the wide lux lights can in terms of multiple modes.
 

Alex@Feniex

New Member
Nov 10, 2013
24
Austin, TX
All great points! Ill be sharing this tread with our marketing and engineering team on Friday. We thought about the dual color, multi mode, low price point and sync options however we are trying to dig deep and come up with something truly innovative. 

How about a beacon that can morph into a quadcopter, fly 100 feet above the vehicle and warn drivers many miles away. Hmmm,  :undecided: no that's not innovative enough! (see how hard this is) :confused:

I will give a free set of 4 Cannon hide-a-ways to anyone who can come up with the most wildly creative idea for a beacon. The rule is it can be far-fetched however it still needs to be "technically feasible".
 
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Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN
id like to have an affordable option of the fed sig ILS....

for the "dream beacon"

id like a beacon that can be multiple colors besides just 2....

i use amber for security type work and red /clear for rescue squad and would like to have green on occasion for command or Christmas parade (red /green)

then  it'd be nice to have the beacon do full rotate or oscillate. (not neccesarily the "m" or "w" type..) side to side etc.

and then a white steady mode for a "spotlight"

 it could be on a cig plug with 2 switches.. 

an on off on and a momentary off momentary.

mode 1 would be warn. mode 2 would be spot.

in mode one the momentary would act as side 1: cycle light color options for 1 color and the other side: would pick the other color.  

in mode 2 the momentary would move the search light left or right. (no up/down) (2 many servo motors in a small spot)

flash patterns could be chosen in the light itself with a momentary switch under a removable dome clear dome
 

strobecrazy

Member
Apr 27, 2011
923
GA,ATL
All great points! Ill be sharing this tread with our marketing and engineering team on Friday. We thought about the dual color, multi mode, low price point and sync options however we are trying to dig deep and come up with something truly innovative. How about a beacon that can morph into a quadcopter, fly 100 feet above the vehicle and warn drivers many miles away. Hmmm,  :undecided: no that's not innovative enough! (see how hard this is) :confused:

I will give a free set of 4 Cannon hide-a-ways to anyone who can come up with the most wildly creative idea for a beacon. The rule is it can be far-fetched however it still needs to be "technically feasible".

How about they double as road flares? Lay 6 or so on the road, they connect wirelessly to the 4200 to give you warning mode, left and right arrow, and center out. Oh and of course you need a scene flood light override.
 

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN
ohh there you go... they have mag mount bases that act as a charging point and then set them on the road... LOL  
 

Sparky_911

Supporting Donor
May 15, 2013
2,648
Central Illinois
Throwing my hat in the ring.....this isn't wildly innovative but would function well and have the options for just about any market.

Start with 3-4 Apollos in a ring (square) then stack 1-2 levels of Cobras or Titan XTs , then another layer of Apollos.  Or some arrangement of that layer combination.  The housing height (my guess) would be 4-6inches and diameter 6-8inches, small enough for a dash/throw light yet big enough to permanent mount on a pole/rack/roof.  I would suggest a clear non fluted/non optic lens cover.

You would have endless possibilities with the dual color combos/patterns with the 3 mode Apollo electronics.  Using Cobra heads would add additional single color warning punch and "dim mode" capability for nighttime/cruise light.  Swap the Cobras for Titan XT's (or use white Cobras) and you have an excellent flood/work/area light.  If possible program a function for all on, L/R alley on, F/R on that can be set by the end user for their needs.

For dash light use a ciggie plug with 2 on/off/on switches and add momentary button for pattern changing or maybe leave a jumper capability inside the light itself for pattern changing. 

You could offer it in heights of 1-4 layers or just a "tall" and "short" profile versions.
 
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May 25, 2010
7,072
Tunkhannock, PA, USA
I'm imagining 2 beacons...  

A low profile one:  a single level of Apollo type lights.  Either 4 "lightheads" set-up in a square, kinda like a Whelen L32, or an actual rounded plane like a Whelen Roto-Beam...  

A high profile one: Basically the same as above but with 2 or 3 levels of the lights...  
 
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cabunty

Member
Sep 21, 2014
135
New England
I third, forth or fifth a low profile beacon. The height of an Apollo would be grand. Apollo's in a circle! Old school shield or 1/2 light cut off for the dash throw light with the magnet on the bottom. Like the pancake lights or Five-0 lights. Cost effective...not hundreds and hundreds of dollars would be the best...of course.

911ep had one...same idea...but smaller in diameter!
 

PJD642

New Member
May 20, 2010
1,543
east of Cleveland
A 2-row light, with 6 or 8 T3 heads in a circle for each level.  Stagger 'em so the top row is centered over the gaps where the bottom row meet to ensure complete 360-degree coverage.

That'd still be lopro, dual color is easy, etc.  Make it post-mountable for motorcycles too.
 
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Sparky_911

Supporting Donor
May 15, 2013
2,648
Central Illinois
You could just put individual Apollo and Cobra optics in a circle a la whelen ,  Feniex did it with the Avatar corners.  Would fit better and make the housing more compact.  I suggested Apollos because they would be drop in and if a head goes bad or you wanted to change colors you could swap out each Apollo/Cobra so you don't have to buy a whole new beacon. 
 

buddek09

Member
Aug 15, 2012
339
US, Ohio
you guys keep saying "use an appolo" i think what you are wanting is the apollo style optics... but in a circle, otherwise youd have 4 dead spots because circle does not = square....

Actually, since the Apollo F6 has 180 degree coverage, you wouldn't have any dead spots. I agree with Sparky it would be nicer to have the Apollo modules since it would be easy to change the colors or repair.
 

JPolston

Member
Mar 27, 2012
512
Indiana, USA
I guess I'll throw in my rinkadink opinion.

Watching new fire/ems apparatus be delivered, attending FDIC and other conferences, and talking to people about specing out a new engine for my own dept, Feniex is quite honestly a rarity when it comes to that side of the world. POVs and police are rapidly jumping the Feniex bandwagon, rightfully so. In my opinion, a beacon would be one step to getting into the Fire/EMS world more consistently.

I LOVE the sleek aspect from Feniex when it comes to my POV and LEOs, but they need to come out with some bigger things with more profile for the fire/ems world. Bigger lightbar, beacons, lightheads like the Whelen 900 series... They all would get a good transition into the fire world for the larger apparatus.

Go for it, take the leap.
 
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gallagher073

Member
Jan 21, 2011
259
Western Connecticut
Feniex already has lightheads designed for surface mount applications on apparatus. 

WideLux lights are available in the following sizes:

6x4 http://www.feniex.com/product.php?prod_id=515

9x7 http://www.feniex.com/product.php?prod_id=517

7x3 http://www.feniex.com/product.php?prod_id=516

They have been shipping from the factory and I saw these first hand when I was at the factory. With the new product line, you will likely see more Feniex products in large fleets due to the innovation of the products and significant cost savings in comparison to the competition. We have been doing more and more agency level sales of Feniex products. While they have had tremendous success in the POV world, you are going to see the same success in the OEM market. 

I guess I'll throw in my rinkadink opinion.

Watching new fire/ems apparatus be delivered, attending FDIC and other conferences, and talking to people about specing out a new engine for my own dept, Feniex is quite honestly a rarity when it comes to that side of the world. POVs and police are rapidly jumping the Feniex bandwagon, rightfully so. In my opinion, a beacon would be one step to getting into the Fire/EMS world more consistently.

I LOVE the sleek aspect from Feniex when it comes to my POV and LEOs, but they need to come out with some bigger things with more profile for the fire/ems world. Bigger lightbar, beacons, lightheads like the Whelen 900 series... They all would get a good transition into the fire world for the larger apparatus.

Go for it, take the leap.
 
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Carlos SpicyWeiner

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 3, 2012
5,233
Lakeland, Florida
I dont know that a beacon needs to be round anymore.... especially with the wide lux optics. 

I do like the idea of something actually moving... BUT mechanical has proven to be an issue in reliability so there is a trade off there. To do it reliably would probably be incredibly expensive. 

Could be really cool if there was a beacon or light that shined a beam straight up so that it was visible from a distance. This would allow others to find the source or move towards it which would be good for incident command.  Our local agencies use Green beacons on top of supervisor vehicles (some on K-9 etc) so that they can set up command post and stand out. I would think a solid beam of light being visible. 

The thing I hate about throw beacons are running wires through the door or out the window.  Find another way to get power to the light and synch with something else without having to do that. This may not be a product you can revolutionize, but you can make a quality product at an affordable price. To me that is Feniex's best attribute. 
 

7d9_z28

New Member
Mar 15, 2012
3,048
West Michigan
Put Laser pointers in it.
 

bullfrog4ever

Member
May 29, 2014
336
Indiana
How about a actual rotator used with either cobra or Apollo optics, or a combination of, with also a spot light in it as well that mimics a go light that could be used as takedown/alleys/rear lighting.  I also really like FEVERS idea of a beam of light that shoots straight up for easy IC location or apparatus location.  Would be cool for the kids or even adults to see or know that apparatus are enroute be seeing a bright beam of light traveling through the sky! 
 

Sparky_911

Supporting Donor
May 15, 2013
2,648
Central Illinois
Hmmm...FEVER is on the right track. Some Feniex lights will run from 9-32 volts...self contained wireless rechargeable beacon that could run off an app or Storm controller?  

I'd say that's something no one else has done yet. 
 

Carlos SpicyWeiner

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 3, 2012
5,233
Lakeland, Florida
I had a 1500 lumen flashlight I used on tracks so perimeter units knew where we were going when they needed too
 

Storm4200

Member
Nov 2, 2011
2,912
NJ
Im thinking of a wireless beacon that's battery operated. Maybe one that can be re-charged via Micro USB. A 200lb pull magnet and a rubberized on-off-on switch to give you 2 functions. The color and pattern programming can be done wirelessly with an app on your phone or when plugged in via usb.
 

strobecrazy

Member
Apr 27, 2011
923
GA,ATL
Nice, that plays into my dual purpose beacon/flare. All i'd have to do is make a metal bracket to fit on a safety cone for the beacons magnet to adhere to.
 

bullfrog4ever

Member
May 29, 2014
336
Indiana
Throwing random ideas out now...

Even on a simpler note, if you could get a cannon 360 to not overheat on steady burn.  Run a 360 in a classic rotator or even cannon 360 retrofits for rotators.  No flashers, just plug and play replacements.  Get the style and classic look of rotators, but with the power efficiency and awesomeness of feniex innovation!

Sweet, simple and too the point! Lol
 
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cabunty

Member
Sep 21, 2014
135
New England
Im thinking of a wireless beacon that's battery operated. Maybe one that can be re-charged via Micro USB. A 200lb pull magnet and a rubberized on-off-on switch to give you 2 functions. The color and pattern programming can be done wirelessly with an app on your phone or when plugged in via usb.

wireless charging in a base...like the phones. that same base could be an actual mag dash mount even...then you don't need to throw and go in inclement weather...you could just go...and no rain in the window or loss of the light in snow when you don't clear enough off and the magnet isn't hanging onto the roof well enough.
 
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Edmontonsecurity

New Member
May 21, 2014
194
Alberta canada
This is a simple but effective solution.

We had actually toyed with this idea locally. I literally was handed 2 apollo f6s and asked if I can make it work for 360 coverage. Gentlemen worked in the oilfield and didnt want to have a bunch of lights everywhere. I took the 2 apollos mounted them on a couple L brackets on a headache rack. 1Lighthead facing forward and one light head facing to the rear.

Mode 1 turned on the amber strobes, when placed "back to back"  it gave these lights 360 coverage. but I also tied the rear apollo into the cargo light for the truck. So when the cargo light was activated the apollo would switch from warning mode and add more lighting to the rear. I utilized the front apollo in the same idea but more of a throw light for the hood for when he is signing crap on his hood.

Id like to see a 3 mode solution to this, If you threw 4 apollos into a square with a 3 mode phase. 
1 Phase could be your warning mode Color A
2 Phase could be your warning mode color B 
3 This would have to be individual for each light head. This would be able to supplement exsisting lighting (Rear Cargo Area, Left/Right flood lighting (Door opening, extra lighting) front flood)

We want simple, bright, and easy. Nobody here (correct me if I am wrong) wants to spend six million hours wiring and programming stuff. The majority of us, and customers want something easy to work with that is Cheap, and effective. With SAE, DOT approval.

 
 
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erlh2012

Member
Dec 10, 2012
23
Central West Virginia
The electric company in my area uses a led beacon that I believe is made by North American Signal.  It is magnetic and runs off of a D cell battery and has adapters for use on traffic cones or to hang it from a hook.  Its not the brightest light and I don't think it has any sae ratings but it does a decent job when parked on the side of the road or on a back road when a little extra warning is needed.  It has two patterns flash and rotate and comes in red, white and amber.  Some vendors also use them when traveling on mine sites.  One of the electric company supervisors told me the reason they used them is when there using administrative vehicles like small trucks and suvs that dont normally have lights or block traffic these lights are easy to deal with and get the job done.  They were also loosing a lot of magnetic lights when they were knocked off by tree limbs during storms.  He said the light it self usually survived but the cords were usually ripped out of them when they were drug.  If you could make a small beacon that had the functionality and options of a cannon and make it rechargeable, last 6-8 hours and have the option of dc power when on the dash i think at least the utility market would love it.  Don't forget sae/dot rating and less that 200 dollars.
 

Alex@Feniex

New Member
Nov 10, 2013
24
Austin, TX
So really what I have gathered is that Feniex needs to develop a beacon and it needs to have functions not commonly found in the market. Engineering will start on concept drawings in 3 months (they are finishing up a few more end of year projects). Ill post those drawings for you all to review. This will be a very guided elightbars beacon design, meaning we will move forward based on the feedback from this form.

In the mean time can someone give me the winner of the 4 cannons? I am having a hard time deciding.  
 

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