FDNY Squad 18 Blue rotators
- Thread starter VolEms
- Start date
They've had that for a while now. I believe the members of that company paid for it out of pocket.
stansdds said:
If you don't like it follow these simple steps:
1. Move to New York.
2. Petition your state senator and assemblyman to change the VTL back to not allow blue on fire/ems but keep the new provision for PD.
Or,
3. Make blue a less visible color.
They put it on there because blue is more visible than red and amber. Sorry if the safety of their members offends your personal feelings on a color.
Blue is more visible at night, but not during the day.
And I am all for safety, let's not make any mistake about that.
Given the behavior of drivers I've seen, the only way to move traffic these days would be with a large plow.
And I am all for safety, let's not make any mistake about that.
Given the behavior of drivers I've seen, the only way to move traffic these days would be with a large plow.
Looked like there was at least one blue rotor up front to - you can see it flash at the very beginning of the video.
5309
Member
lafd55
Member
BUFFaLOT said:
Only if you promise to not put a blue light on it! :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
JohnMarcson
Administrator
stansdds said:
On FDNY no less... makes me sad. I understand blue is slightly more visible under some conditions than red... but with the current brightness of modern LEDs I think the benefit of specific colors is over stated. I have no scientific study to back this, only my experience seeing Ohio state vehicles. The blue strobes showed up better at night for sure than the red. The new code 3 LED bars in all blue and all red (Motor Carrier vs Patrol) seem very similar to me in distance of detection and intensity. I think size and pattern are far more important than color.
Travelin Man
Member
All of the new FDNY Ferrara rescues and ladders are being delivered with blue to rear as well. I don't see what the uproar is, personally.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
Travelin Man said:
Just sad to see old light traditions die. In actual practice it makes little difference.
lafd55
Member
Harbor Patrol
Member
JohnMarcson said:
i dont believe its a matter of "brightness" regarding color, i think the research showed that certain colors draw the eye to it, causing drivers to be distracted and loose focus of the road, like white, where amber and blue get the drivers attention while not distracting the brain allowing them to stay focused on the road. i believe this was a research article i read from AAA in the past.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
Harbor Patrol said:
What ever the actual terminology behind it, I think it matters less now than it used to.... white is always a no no to the rear in my book because it's blinding... as far as getting drivers to notice red over blue with modern LEDs.... I would guess it's less of an issue than it used to be. I could be wrong.. I just don't have trouble seeing red at night on the side of the road like I used to... and my eyes aren't getting any better.
Zapp Brannigan
Lifetime VIP Donor
BUFFaLOT said:
Option 2a) Petition your State Senator and Assemblyman to change the VTL to give volunteers with blue full Emergency Vehicle status, or, let volunteers run RL&S.
I like that option better! Blue light = Courtesy Light = Another old tradition that NEEDS to die/get with the times...
Rusted413 said:
Many NY police units are now putting blue to the front. First time I have seen it on any firetruck in the state of NY though.
lafd55
Member
chono said:
Some fire departments have it to the front as well. Yonkers FD has a couple and I think various Nassau and Suffolk County apparatus.
JohnMarcson said:
I think that used to be the case with strobe, halogen and incandescent, where filters were used to achieve the desired color(s). However, LED is, as you well know, a whole different animal. White LEDs are created by modifying blue LEDs. I've found red and blue LEDs to be brighter than white (comparing warning lamps to warning lights, not scene lights).
Many emergency vehicles around here use either hide-a-ways (usually strobe, but there are some LEDs) or brake/back-up flashers, and I don't think there have been any problems with the white lights being too bright.
JohnMarcson
Administrator
Doug said:
I am in the process of removing the white LEDs from the back of our command vehicle because they are blinding and distracting. Not as bad as strobes.... but still distracting, noticeably more so than the red next to it. Next to the red they were much more distracting. They will become amber or red.
JohnMarcson said:
Why don't u make it like fire trucks that the whit turns off while in park. U can save money and still be bright while responding.
ff168577
Member
I wouldn't worry much about this rig anyway. All Fdny squads are getting new rigs, so they will not have the option of adding blue to the front.
stansdds said:
Most people are unaware that there is a significant amount of research that has gone into understanding which colors are most visible during the day, night and in which age group. Whether it's on Youtube or on a forum like this one I'm constantly running across comments which say that such and such a color is better than such and such a color because of xyz. In fact, most people are clueless. Most people talking about red, blue, amber or clear lights have absolutely no idea about which color is the most visible during the day, the night, in the city, in the county, for an old person or for a young person. If anyone would like to finally have a clear understanding of this question, keep reading.
A study done in 2008 called the "Effects of Warning Lamp Color and Intensity on Driver Vision" was conducted at the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute in Ann Arbor and was underwritten by the Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the United States Fire Administration and the US Department of Justice. The 54 page study revealed that blue was the most conspicuous color day or night and in any age group. The report strongly recommended that emergency services throughout the USA begin to put blue on all vehicles.
This is what is now happening with FDNY.
We can all speculate about which colors are most visible and I'm sure that we all have our preferences based upon which cop shows we watch on TV or upon the colors used in our own state or country, but the fact remains that if we are just saying that such and such a color is safer or better than another color when in fact we are totally clueless regarding current research, then we are just making everything up and it's meaningless. And it shows.
The report that I mentioned above is available in PDF format on the internet and I highly recommend it to anyone who is truly interested in understanding the question of color and conspicuousness and why blue is now coming into fashion for some emergency services which never used it before.
Concerning FDNY Squad 18's front blue rotator, it is, to my knowledge the only FDNY apparatus with a forward facing blue light. This is just the beginning. I am confident that someday, perhaps not this year or next year, perhaps not even in 10 years, but someday all FDNY apparatus will be equipped with not only rear blue lights but forward facing blue lights as well.
I'll soon be posting more videos of FDNY Squad 18 and its forward-facing blue rotator! ;-)
Zapp Brannigan
Lifetime VIP Donor
hotelmedicis said:
Since the poster failed to provide a link to said study, a 0.37 second Google search yielded...
http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/tsb/cooperative/warninglamp0810.pdf
Thanks for the link and I'll read the study, but it was underwritten by DHS and FEMA? I'm not going to say what I'm thinking, this isn't the proper forum. :-x
Red (even flashing) doesn't stand out well against a sea of red tail lights and stoplights---which is a common sight in NY.
I notice that most of the people who get butt hurt about NY apparatus running blue to the rear are people from "blue for police, red for fire" states---which is a retarded premise, IMO.
I notice that most of the people who get butt hurt about NY apparatus running blue to the rear are people from "blue for police, red for fire" states---which is a retarded premise, IMO.
C420sailor said:
You have my sincerest apologies for expressing an opinion based on a retarded premise. It shall not happen again.
Minnesota was very similar to NY for most of my life with only allowing red/white/yellow on emergency vehicles. Snow plows had blue. Then in about 1996 the law chnaged to allow blue to the rear on the right side of the vehicle as you looked at it from the rear. This changed again several years later to allow blue anywhere in the rear of the vehicle. Then in 2003-2004 it changed to allow blue to the front and sides as well for all emergency vehicles. Slowly but surely depts have been switching. I think it looks great on all emergency vehicles. The only confusion I have seen ever is that my police dept runs booking vans, (paddy wagons) that look like ambulances. If you try and do a traffic stop with it some people will yield but not pull over thinking its an ambualnce behind them so I advoid doing traffic stops with them when I am assigned the wagon.
SafetyLighting
Member
C420sailor said:
I spend a lot of time on the 95/195 highways in MA and RI. RISP was an all red agency for long time, then I think about 10 years ago they added some blue to the front and rear on some Vista Strobe bars. When they switched to LED bars a few years go they went back to all red, then added two blue modules facing the rear. Last year the bars were all red again. When approaching an sort of incident with a trooper running an all red bar, it is impossible to tell where he is from a distance, which makes traffic more congested.
Having those two blue modules to the rear makes a huge difference in the sea of red brake lights.
The fact that many vehicles now have LED lights standard makes matters worse.