Fire Department Utility/Service Trucks

RescueWV

Member
Dec 31, 2010
337
Central PA
Boredom and curiosity led me to look through the call list for my rural/small town fire department today (average about 100 calls/year). What I found was that over half of the calls we've had this year fit into one of the following categories:
  • Flooding (Either pumping out flooded basements, or traffic control for flooded roadways)
  • Traffic Control (Disabled vehicles, non-injury accidents, and shutting down highways for blizzard conditions
  • Tree Down/Wires Down/Pole Down/Debris on Roadway
  • EMS Assist (Primarily lift assist, but occasionally first response/QRS)
When all is said and done, give or take a few here and there, it seems like HALF of our calls could be handled by a well-equipped pickup truck or SUV with not much more than a BLS bag, a dozen traffic cones, a chainsaw, a portable pump or two, and some hand tools.

And yet, that's exactly what we DON'T have. Our only "small" apparatus is a Dodge Ram outfitted as a brush truck. But it only seats two, and is loaded to the gills with a 200 gallon tank, forestry hose, and other wildland equipment. With a case of road flares and a chain saw, it can handle some tree down calls and minor traffic control, but it's hardly an all-purpose sort of vehicle. Otherwise, most of these sorts of calls get handled by our rescue-engine, or custom-cab pumper.

I know it's hardly a new or novel idea, but I'd like to look at proposing our department gets a "well equipped pickup truck," probably a crew cab with either with a utility body, or a cap, to be able to respond on these sorts of public service calls, and was wondering if anyone had experience in downsizing your fire department's fleet like this? Do's and don'ts or pros and cons?
 

firebuff17

Member
Mar 28, 2011
774
CT
Sounds like a great idea!
I have no personal experience in the matter but I think you have a great idea. If proposed correctly, and outfitted correctly, it could serve your town very well.
It would certainly cut down on wear and tear on the typica apparatus.
 

FiremanSketch

Member
Dec 17, 2014
212
Lake Arrowhead
I'm all about FD utility trucks. Can be driven by everyone, doesn't give the impression of "wasting tax dollars" whenever doing XYZ, cost less for upkeep, etc.

What's your budget look like? Any thought to getting maybe a Surburban/Tahoe/Expedition/etc? Might be easier to find one used (presuming that's what you would be looking at) already upfitted. Would probably save a lot of hassle dealing with the "old heads" in the firehouse.
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
Sounds like a good idea, but be careful. In my county we have a lot of older residents, which translates to a lot of hot assist EMS calls, which is fine, but now there's a lot of nursing homes. They account for a large for an inappropriately large number of the assist EMS calls. Like, what are first responders going to do for patients in facilities with "fever", or "vomiting", or "not acting right", etc, when the facilities have medical personnel on scene? Sorry for rambling, but you need to set limits on what you will respond to. Initially the increase in calls looks good, but you'll soon find yourselves being toned out every time EMS rolls. This is not a good a good senario for paid departments, much less volunteers. Plus, as you know, the increased wear and tear on your primary trucks, fuel costs, and exposure to increased possibility of being in a collesions.
I do like the "Squad 51" type truck. Once you get a dedicated utility vehicle, you'll start adding more and more gear until you suddenly realize there's not enough space. Go bigger than what you think you'll need.
 
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CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
Why does your dept respond to:
  • Traffic Control (Disabled vehicles, non-injury accidents, and shutting down highways for blizzard conditions
 

unityrv26

Member
Mar 4, 2012
391
Michigan
A firefighter isn't much good without a hose. Having said that, I'm reminded of seeing an ugly debate at such a small scene where a simple light duty truck could have handled it. A "tax-payer" lit into fur-fur command on scene as to why they would take out a big truck, wear and tear, fuel, risk of damaging the truck in an accident, etc. ect.

I remember the Lt. asked the "citizen" if he lived close by. Of course he piped up and said yes, three blocks down.

I'm sure you see where this is going, but the good Lt. said "if your house was on fire would you want us there quickly?" He nodded of course. "well sir, if your house was on fire right now, would you want me to drive a smaller truck 4.5 miles to the station, switch out and drive 4.5 miles back to you? Or would you want me to travel 3 blocks and put it out quickly?"

I've used similar reasoning's with parking patrol cars in fire lanes. If your mother was inside the store having a heart attack would you want me to look for a parking space? or If your mother was having a heart attack at home would you want me to get to my vehicle quickly?

Point is, yes, you may not always need the big boy truck, but wouldn't it be better to have it with you wherever you are?

I've seen this in law enforcement too. Let's get a bean bag shotgun. But where will we keep it? In the Sergeants office locked up.
 
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Phillyrube

Member
May 21, 2010
1,272
Flatistan
Always wondered why we rolled a 7 digit ladder truck on a bls assist call. Several times we lost a ladder due to an accident on such a call.
There was city somewheres that ran a ladder tender, sort of like the old city service trucks. Had everything on it except some ground ladders and the stick.
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
Always wondered why we rolled a 7 digit ladder truck on a bls assist call. Several times we lost a ladder due to an accident on such a call.
There was city somewheres that ran a ladder tender, sort of like the old city service trucks. Had everything on it except some ground ladders and the stick.
That's basically one of the issues I was trying to bring up. There are enough people in local department's to respond two persons in a squad without depleting the stations, but if you respond an engine to the far end of the district for a bls call, and a structure fire or serious accident call comes in from the other end of the district, now there's a problem. The citizens are being shorted the response they should be getting, and wearing out high dollar fire equipment when a squad or minipumper would suffice.
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Chief Murphy has a law that states, "If you take the small truck, you will need the big one". The opposite is true, too.

Often, we respond to what would seem to be a minor EMS call, only to have to set up an LZ. The bigger apparatus is good for blocking the road. Usually. (There's always that @#&% who tries to drive through the block.)
 
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RescueWV

Member
Dec 31, 2010
337
Central PA
Why does your dept respond to:
  • Traffic Control (Disabled vehicles, non-injury accidents, and shutting down highways for blizzard conditions

State police are the only law enforcement in the vast majority of our county including our entire first due area. That means emergency traffic control falls to us. Fortunately, we can usually get state DOT or local DPW to relieve us for major incidents, but we're it as far as initial response.



Chief Murphy has a law that states, "If you take the small truck, you will need the big one". The opposite is true, too.

Often, we respond to what would seem to be a minor EMS call, only to have to set up an LZ. The bigger apparatus is good for blocking the road. Usually. (There's always that @#&% who tries to drive through the block.)

As far as LZs go, our response area is small enough with some pre-planned LZs, so it's extremely rare that we land a bird on a roadway rather than a field or parking lot. But yeah, murphy's rule weighs heavy on my mind. Kind of makes me think that a 2-3 seater pickup is a better option to make sure that we still personnel in station rather than loading 4-5 into a crew cab or SUV and having no one at home to bring full-size apparatus if need be.
 

CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
State police are the only law enforcement in the vast majority of our county including our entire first due area. That means emergency traffic control falls to us. Fortunately, we can usually get state DOT or local DPW to relieve us for major incidents, but we're it as far as initial response.

So your dept responds to & operates at non-fire emergencies, making yourselves unavailable for real fire emergencies??
 

Doyle257

Member
Jan 13, 2015
658
Cheektowaga, NY
I do like the "Squad 51" type truck. Once you get a dedicated utility vehicle, you'll start adding more and more gear until you suddenly realize there's not enough space. Go bigger than what you think you'll need.
Exactly this. Many departments will buy a 3/4 ton chassis(2500) and slap a Utility bed on it, and call it a day. what they dont account for is the WEIGHT of that utility bed, ontop of all of the crap they keep piling into it, quickly exceeding the GVWR of the vehicle. Its not just Fire Departments either. Ive seen many contractors destroy their vehicles by doing it.

For what you are looking to do, a 1-ton chassis should be the absolute minimum.
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
Sounds like a good idea, but be careful. In my county we have a lot of older residents, which translates to a lot of hot assist EMS calls, which is fine, but now there's a lot of nursing homes. They account for a large for an inappropriately large number of the assist EMS calls. Like, what are first responders going to do for patients in facilities with "fever", or "vomiting", or "not acting right", etc, when the facilities have medical personnel on scene? Sorry for rambling, but you need to set limits on what you will respond to. Initially the increase in calls looks good, but you'll soon find yourselves being toned out every time EMS rolls. This is not a good a good senario for paid departments, much less volunteers. Plus, as you know, the increased wear and tear on your primary trucks, fuel costs, and exposure to increased possibility of being in a collesions.
I do like the "Squad 51" type truck. Once you get a dedicated utility vehicle, you'll start adding more and more gear until you suddenly realize there's not enough space. Go bigger than what you think you'll need.

That’s exactly what happens with us. Every single time EMS is paged here, we go.

Our medical response vehicle is a 2008 F-550 which also serves as our only brush truck. Our second brush truck just got decommissioned with a blown motor.

Our department is volunteer by everything has to go through our city council. They just denied us a new pickup truck to use solely as a medical truck.

So now our brush truck is also going though unnecessary abuse running to all medicals. It’s always been a medical/brush truck but mainly saw use as medical when the other truck was in service.
 

whatevah

Member
May 26, 2010
388
Delaware, USA
My station has a 2005 F450 4x4 with a Reading utility body. It was originally just a utility piece, but they added a skid unit pump several years ago. Heavy and highway tires... not really good for anything offroad. I had to pull it with my Jeep a few times in the snow. It has some a couple SCBAs, LED push-up lights, hydraulic cutters and combi tool, water rope throw bags, water and dry chem cans, flares, lockout kits, misc hand tools, plus an AED and BLS bag. Not a bad all-around piece when you don't need a real engine or rescue.
 
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BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
Wonder if they know what a new replacement brush goes for now? They'll find out when the current one dies. Pennywise and pound foolish. Do you have a service district set up to collect money for the department? If not it might be a good way to cut city council out of loop.
 

Phillyrube

Member
May 21, 2010
1,272
Flatistan
Exactly this. Many departments will buy a 3/4 ton chassis(2500) and slap a Utility bed on it, and call it a day. what they dont account for is the WEIGHT of that utility bed, ontop of all of the crap they keep piling into it, quickly exceeding the GVWR of the vehicle. Its not just Fire Departments either. Ive seen many contractors destroy their vehicles by doing it.

For what you are looking to do, a 1-ton chassis should be the absolute minimum.

Good point. When I was spec ing the rescue trucks for my agency, we figured in extra load capacity to account for extra equipment which would be added over the life of the truck.

I was on a committee that drew up specs for a police command vehicle, precinct level. It had an extendabed we custom designed, then all the equipment that would go in it. It was designed to go into the back of an F250, crewcab, and the rear seat area was made into a workspace, with a desk, computer docking station. Got the extendabeds ordered and once received, the city garage, which has ABSOLUTE authority all police rolling stock, decided to save money by removing the back seat on Expeditions, and shoehorning the bed inside. What a dog, they did this to six Expeditions. When I retired we had gone through 3 rear ends and one transmission on our unit alone. Untold brake changes. Driving it was like a freight train: hard to get it going and would not stop worth a damn.

Before I moved out of the area PD was changing over to F250 extended cabs. Lost the work area.
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
Wonder if they know what a new replacement brush goes for now? They'll find out when the current one dies. Pennywise and pound foolish. Do you have a service district set up to collect money for the department? If not it might be a good way to cut city council out of loop.

If you were referring to my post, we don’t have a way.

Unfortunately for us, city council controls the bank account and we have trouble getting folks to get together for fundraisers.

We were trying to go the Enterprise leasing deal but last I heard they shot that down too. I heard it was the mayor saying “If I don’t get a new vehicle, you don’t either.”
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
If you were referring to my post, we don’t have a way.

Unfortunately for us, city council controls the bank account and we have trouble getting folks to get together for fundraisers.

We were trying to go the Enterprise leasing deal but last I heard they shot that down too. I heard it was the mayor saying “If I don’t get a new vehicle, you don’t either.”
Sounds like you need a new mayor. Typical politican when the assume too much power. What town and state is this?
 
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FiremanSketch

Member
Dec 17, 2014
212
Lake Arrowhead
If you were referring to my post, we don’t have a way.

Unfortunately for us, city council controls the bank account and we have trouble getting folks to get together for fundraisers.

We were trying to go the Enterprise leasing deal but last I heard they shot that down too. I heard it was the mayor saying “If I don’t get a new vehicle, you don’t either.”

What a swell fackin guy. What's the mayor need a car for anyway? Bet the papers & news would eat up a story like that. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here anyhow.

What about grants? You could sidestep the town (in theory) with a grant issued to the dept. Or you can just "coerce" more repairs to become necessary... Seems they'll start to get the picture then!
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
Sounds like you need a new mayor. Typical politican when the assume too much power. What town and state is this?

Yup. It’s Cave City, Ky. Guess we will see. It’s election year this year so we believe changes are coming. We’ve been hearing some of the people running saying that we will get some changes going.

What a swell fackin guy. What's the mayor need a car for anyway? Bet the papers & news would eat up a story like that. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here anyhow.

What about grants? You could sidestep the town (in theory) with a grant issued to the dept. Or you can just "coerce" more repairs to become necessary... Seems they'll start to get the picture then!

We tried I believe. Not really sure. I’d have to ask. We usually don’t get included in the process.

He had a car all decked out with amber lights and the motor blew up. So he’s been using his personal vehicle. Not really sure why he had a vehicle in the first place.

I know they’ve tabled the truck discussion right now. We’ve been having issues with our radio system on our end of the county.

Our repeater went out almost 2 months ago and is so old our radio can’t find parts for it. We told him to install us a new repeater but the city shot it down and said they wouldn’t pay for it.

So as a result we are having to use a repeater that’s at least 10-15 miles away instead of the one that’s less than a mile from our station.
 
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FiremanSketch

Member
Dec 17, 2014
212
Lake Arrowhead
Yup. It’s Cave City, Ky. Guess we will see. It’s election year this year so we believe changes are coming. We’ve been hearing some of the people running saying that we will get some changes going.



We tried I believe. Not really sure. I’d have to ask. We usually don’t get included in the process.

He had a car all decked out with amber lights and the motor blew up. So he’s been using his personal vehicle. Not really sure why he had a vehicle in the first place.

I know they’ve tabled the truck discussion right now. We’ve been having issues with our radio system on our end of the county.

Our repeater went out almost 2 months ago and is so old our radio can’t find parts for it. We told him to install us a new repeater but the city shot it down and said they wouldn’t pay for it.

So as a result we are having to use a repeater that’s at least 10-15 miles away instead of the one that’s less than a mile from our station.

Man, it's the shit like that that's driven me out of volunteering in the past. D-bag politicians who really don't have a damn clue about the importance of radio comms & what it means to public safety. That's really one of the tenets of an effective department... Vehicles, radios, gear, & training. I'm mad for you guys. Lol.
 
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BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
Yup. It’s Cave City, Ky. Guess we will see. It’s election year this year so we believe changes are coming. We’ve been hearing some of the people running saying that we will get some changes going.



We tried I believe. Not really sure. I’d have to ask. We usually don’t get included in the process.

He had a car all decked out with amber lights and the motor blew up. So he’s been using his personal vehicle. Not really sure why he had a vehicle in the first place.

I know they’ve tabled the truck discussion right now. We’ve been having issues with our radio system on our end of the county.

Our repeater went out almost 2 months ago and is so old our radio can’t find parts for it. We told him to install us a new repeater but the city shot it down and said they wouldn’t pay for it.

So as a result we are having to use a repeater that’s at least 10-15 miles away instead of the one that’s less than a mile from our station.
If it can be shown to the public that emergency responses are being delayed or curtailed, the mayor will be replaced. We had a local sheriff who got impressed with himself and manipulated crime stats to make it appear crime was down when the public knew it wasn't, and had the radio system encrypted so no one could hear what the department was doing. He was beaten in a landslide in the primary, with no opposite party opposition. Now he's busy spending any discretionary funds on unneeded items so the Sheriff elect won't be able to. Sounds like national politics, doesn't it?
I'd still like to know why the mayor needs a vehicle outfitted with lights of any color. Sounds like Boss Hog in the Dukes of Hazzard.
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
If it can be shown to the public that emergency responses are being delayed or curtailed, the mayor will be replaced. We had a local sheriff who got impressed with himself and manipulated crime stats to make it appear crime was down when the public knew it wasn't, and had the radio system encrypted so no one could hear what the department was doing. He was beaten in a landslide in the primary, with no opposite party opposition. Now he's busy spending any discretionary funds on unneeded items so the Sheriff elect won't be able to. Sounds like national politics, doesn't it?
I'd still like to know why the mayor needs a vehicle outfitted with lights of any color. Sounds like Boss Hog in the Dukes of Hazzard.

It is the good ole boys club here on my department.

Things are slowly changing. I have a feeling they’ll change more come December. The daughter of one of our Captains has been on for over 4 years and still not certified. State requires you to be 150 hour certified within 2 years or we start losing some of our state aid. Her fiancé is the same way. Been on almost 2 years after leaving his previous department and hasn’t been certifed while on either.

Come December if they don’t have their hours, the deputy chief/training officer is putting them inactive. Once that happens the captain will probably leave too. Which is fine by the rest of us.
 

Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,580
Shelbyville, TN
If the repeater is old enough parts arent made than is it even narrowbanded? Time to call the fcc and have responsible parties fined...
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
If the repeater is old enough parts arent made than is it even narrowbanded? Time to call the fcc and have responsible parties fined...

Yeah it’s narrowband. Our guy would make sure of that. It’s just a model that he can’t find parts for hardly. The last time it had problems he had issues finding parts for it.
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
If it can be shown to the public that emergency responses are being delayed or curtailed, the mayor will be replaced. We had a local sheriff who got impressed with himself and manipulated crime stats to make it appear crime was down when the public knew it wasn't, and had the radio system encrypted so no one could hear what the department was doing. He was beaten in a landslide in the primary, with no opposite party opposition. Now he's busy spending any discretionary funds on unneeded items so the Sheriff elect won't be able to. Sounds like national politics, doesn't it?
I'd still like to know why the mayor needs a vehicle outfitted with lights of any color. Sounds like Boss Hog in the Dukes of Hazzard.
I looked up your town. 2200 people hardly justify the mayor having an official vehicle for town business, muchless one with warning lights. He should at most receive a per mile payment for use of his car on official business. I realize I'm preaching to the choir here. Good luck.
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
It is the good ole boys club here on my department.

Things are slowly changing. I have a feeling they’ll change more come December. The daughter of one of our Captains has been on for over 4 years and still not certified. State requires you to be 150 hour certified within 2 years or we start losing some of our state aid. Her fiancé is the same way. Been on almost 2 years after leaving his previous department and hasn’t been certifed while on either.

Come December if they don’t have their hours, the deputy chief/training officer is putting them inactive. Once that happens the captain will probably leave too. Which is fine by the rest of us.
It is the good ole boys club here on my department.

Things are slowly changing. I have a feeling they’ll change more come December. The daughter of one of our Captains has been on for over 4 years and still not certified. State requires you to be 150 hour certified within 2 years or we start losing some of our state aid. Her fiancé is the same way. Been on almost 2 years after leaving his previous department and hasn’t been certifed while on either.

Come December if they don’t have their hours, the deputy chief/training officer is putting them inactive. Once that happens the captain will probably leave too. Which is fine by the rest of us.
If either of them get injured on duty and the State Department of Labor orOSHA gets involved, the Department won't have a leg to stand on. Small town politics is amazing.
 
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Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
If either of them get injured on duty and the State Department of Labor orOSHA gets involved, the Department won't have a leg to stand on. Small town politics is amazing.

It sure is. That’s ok. I have a feeling we will have a new mayor this year.

And it’s been said by the deputy chief/training officer that, if they aren’t certified by November, they are being put inactive.
 

BLUELIGHT

Member
Jul 7, 2018
118
Hendersonville NC
It sure is. That’s ok. I have a feeling we will have a new mayor this year.

And it’s been said by the deputy chief/training officer that, if they aren’t certified by November, they are being put inactive.
Needs to be done. As mentioned, if they get hurt or killed on duty, or if a member of the public is harmed, the department and governing body will get taken to the cleaners. Training records, or lack there of, will be closely examined. They may suprise you if they are moved to inactive status. If they really want to firefighters. We had a member who wanted to be a medical first responder who went back and got his GED so he could train to be a first responder. And yes, he made it, despite being somewhat mentally challenged. He was motivated!
 

Mattdecker

Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,172
Barren County, Kentucky
I might add some will excel in and of themselves. Others have to be made to perform to standard. Those you mentioned fall in the later group.[/QUOTE


True. I doubt they will though. I’ve seen us get paged out while they are at the firehouse and us need the manpower and they’ll walk across the road and get in their truck and leave. The captain has done that as well. He did that one time when we needed him since he is a first responder and myself and the other guy wasn’t.

Got paged out and he said “well, dinners on the table gotta go”.
 

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