Halogen rotators, places they still rule....?

Do halogen rotators still have a place

  • Yes, as primary warning or 100% of a setup

    Votes: 9 6.4%
  • Yes, as secondary warning only or limited types of vehicles

    Votes: 61 43.6%
  • No, they are totally outdated

    Votes: 54 38.6%
  • It that like the rtoating strobe led that I bought at the auto parts store?

    Votes: 16 11.4%

  • Total voters
    140

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
So I started a thread about strobes possibly being obsolete, so I wanted to discuss halogen rotators too. Their amp draw compared to LEDs is significantly higher. Their bulbs burn out too. However they do melt snow off themselves and are often super effective and affordable. If you can swing the current draw a highlighter is one of the most effective minibars out there. A halogen sentry beacon can go toe to toe with any similarly sized beacon out there. If I were outfitting a DOT or plow vehicle I'd use halogen rotators almost exclusively. Even though modern LEDs are getting better and better off axis, I still like 2 halogen rotators on the top corners of fire trucks, particularly ones used to block roads so they can be parked at an angle.
 

theroofable

Member
May 23, 2010
1,379
New Jersey
The NJDOT and parkway crews uses mx7000 amber lightbars, along with other halogen, led, and strobe lights on their vehicles, and they are crazy bright in direct sunlight. Im not sure if its because of the dome color, or if they use different bulbs, but the rotators are extremely effective and bright. I am impressed with their setups. Some of our engines have the Excalibur rotators, the clear domes are impressive, the red ones, not as much but still do a great job. As long as the domes are clean, they will look good.
 

bwoodruff

Member
Aug 8, 2011
499
Upstate NY
The bar on my new truck is primarily rotators. The only LEDs are for the traffic advisor. I do also have an LED dash light, but I'm considering swapping that for my FS Firebeam (only hesitation is that it is fairly LOUD).
 

I 26

Member
Sep 9, 2010
315
Vancouver, Canada
Toronto Police Service: back in the mid-2000's when everyone started showing off their new, sleek LED bars TPS was just upgrading - from the Code 3 LP6000 to the all halogen Excalibur bars. Still boast them bright and proud to this day.
 

IshyFlynn

Member
Feb 8, 2012
191
Maine
You can't quite beat halogens for melting snow off in the winter time, throwing a huge amount of light, and being fairly reliable and affordable. Look at MSP's use of the halogen rotator on their cars... Just recenty did they change to LEDs... Some of their cars just have that one warning light... Hope the LED doesn't get snow covered...


I say the best bar is a mix of halogens for sheer power and LEDs for pop, traffic advising, etc.
 

fire1

Member
Jun 5, 2011
621
Michigan
To many times I have seen led bars covered with snow at accidents & you can barely see them. All are trucks use 9M strobes, & they melt snow. The sheriff dept uses all 3 styles. The only ones that can be seen, if they sit for any time, are the 9M's or the Excalibur bars. There is always a place for strobes or halogens.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
emtanderson51 said:
72" candy cane Aerohawk with 2 fast sentries on the rear and you"re set... well maybe not NFPA, but you will be clearly seen.......

A main reason candycane works so well is beacuse they function as an all clear bar..... don't get me wrong, a candycane aerodynic is a great traffic mover.... it's just basically a clear lightbar and needs to be treated as such.
 

HILO

Member
May 20, 2010
2,781
Grand Prairie Texas
When the Streethawk was introduced, it set the standard for rotator bars. Having the rotators visiable 360, as well as having take downs, flashers, and alley lights was greatness on the roof. Big reflectors, and a decent footprint between rotators was also good. When the Whelen Advantage, and then the MX7000 came onto the market, with their lower profile, and incorporated arrows, it became anyones game. You could mix strobe, rotators, oscilating heads, and faster rotators to be unique. Code 3's intersection sweeps made the MX7000 the most popular bar in the 90's. I dont think, even with LED bars, the warning power of a MX7000 with sweeps can be matched. Of course I never liked fast rotators. They never seemed to give the same punch as a slower rotator. That brief moment the rotator travels the other direction and then swings back into line of sight is still the most effective IMO.


Strobes have a good effect as well. I think LED's have become too bright, and are either a blur of white, or offer little to no defining out line of the EV.
 
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nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
HILO said:
When the Streethawk was introduced, it set the standard for rotator bars. Having the rotators visiable 360, as well as having take downs, flashers, and alley lights was greatness on the roof. Big reflectors, and a decent footprint between rotators was also good. When the Whelen Advantage, and then the MX7000 came onto the market, with their lower profile, and incorporated arrows, it became anyones game. You could mix strobe, rotators, oscilating heads, and faster rotators to be unique. Code 3's intersection sweeps made the MX7000 the most popular bar in the 90's. I dont think, even with LED bars, the warning power of a MX7000 with sweeps can be matched. Of course I never liked fast rotators. They never seemed to give the same punch as a slower rotator. That brief moment the rotator travels the other direction and then swings back into line of sight is still the most effective IMO.

Strobes have a good effect as well. I think LED's have become too bright, and are either a blur of white, or offer little to no defining out line of the EV.

LEDs are great as a replacement for halogen flashers, such as the KKK-spec lights on ambulances (when flashed properly), but they don't do well at all as a replacement for top-mounted strobes or rotators. Their best use is as secondary warning. In the case of TIR3's and the like, they're good where a very compact light is needed, not where you just want to use tiny lights because LED's are cool - I'm talking to you people who use 4 or 6 of the tiniest lights you can find as grille lights, instead of a pair of the biggest lights that can fit. They also have a place in unmarked vehicles, or any situation where the lights shouldn't be readily visible when turned off.
 

MeefZah

Member
Oct 6, 2011
123
New Philadelphia, OH
I think a lot of people's opinions are going to be predicated on what was being used when they first came on.


In the mid 90s, when I got into EMS and when I became a cop; everything was outfitted with MX7000s. Seeing it in use now makes me think back to when I got started, and how things used to be. I remember the "churning" noise on the roof when you would light someone up, and the reassuring "click-click-click" of the flashers ticking back and forth. I remember the corner sweeps and the oscilaser would put on this freaky show in fog and mesmerize you. I remember that at 80 mph the bar would flex enough that the middle of it would bounce against the roof of the ambulance.


Back then, every vollie we had ran either a Federal Firebeam with mirror, a Code 3 DL with mirror, or a 5-0 light with mirror. I used both the Federal and the Code 3 and still hold them both in high regard. Again, when I see one in use now, I have nice flashbacks to the cars I used to drive, the setups I used to run, and the jobs I used to do for places far away from me now.


I think halogen rotators have their place, and they do have some advantages over strobes or LEDs; but from a pure "warning power" standpoint they will eventually become extinct.


But, from the standpoint of being time machines, they are very much at the top of the heap.
 
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Shawn L

Member
May 21, 2010
2,477
Corbett, Oregon
I have stated this for years, there is no 1 single source of emergency lighting, we all know the flaws of emergency lights , some are design borne and some are just how they will be .


here are some pro's and cons to each:


Halogen:


pros: melts snow, great daytime visibility , good in fog , can be seen from long distances ( rear halogen amber flashers as an example ,many available flash rates and combos.


con's : heat, melts reflectors and discolors "chrome housings" moving parts (broken rotator gears) noisy like stated above when you hear thelights swooshing and humming away you know there up there and working, but we also have some people that claim a Whelen balast talon is too loud)


Strobe:


Pros: they make some heat, brilliant at night, decent sight range, lots of mounting and sync options , hideaways ect, NO moving parts good standardization and upgrade-ability between manufacturers, options to dim the light heads ( most power supplies have this, not so much with self contained heads)


Cons: poor daytime visibility ( some worse then others) some are poorly designed that allow for wash out , some times they can make too much heat when installed in small spaces the supplies do make some noise, some heads don't have re-lampable tubes that are expensive to replace, cheep chrome coating that often will fade/ blacken with use


Led:


Pro's: little to no heat (can be good when mounting in small spaces where a strobe would melt the lense,) no moving parts, many options for sync, either w/ steady burn or built in flashers, most have built in flashers cutting down on running extra wires and buying flashers, above average daytimg visability, sealed potted units, (can be good or bad)


Con's: no heat , so they don't melt snow, potted units , if one diode dies the whole light is out of service, and must be replaced, not the best in the fog or snow ,they can be blinding in fog and low light conditions, I would push that every led head has a low power feature (maybe not hideaways and anything a tir3 or smaller ) flasher units on the flying leads, (a vertex for example , I'm old school and I don't like stuff scattered all over the vehicle when something needs to be serviced) while the leds them self are rated for 100,000 hours im not too impressed with the manufacturers housings that they install them in , we have all heard the complaints about whelens, and others leaky designs


I run a total mix on my truck, recently I bought a pair of whelen 700 series super leds, to replace the tomar 7x3 strobes on my tool box, that didn't happen , the strobes out preformed the leds hands down. I run a loaded custom MX7000 that most of the lower level is LED , and hideaway strobes front and rear, leds are used on the push bumper and grille, i constantly get compliments from other responders about how effective the set up is , better than the new liberty thats on their patrol car ect.


Oregon State police is a good example , they used a liberty bar on the roof of their chargers , leds on the push bumper/ grille and a pair of amber signal master 1's in the rear window , and the stock alternating brake lights , you see the amber lights from a mile away.


recently my volunteer department wanted to buy a LED lights bar for our first out engine, ( 3 stations 4 engines, 2 tenders, 2 brush rigs, a rescue and a squad 40 square miles of rural area, with I-84 going through it) I convinced them to NOT buy the led bar we have a lot of low volume secondary roads , and most of the time were on the main highway that has decent visibility at the intersections, and our roads are steep mountainous and have many turns, (this keeps apparatus speeds down) what I suggested was a total over haul of the lighting on all or first out engines excluding the top zone lighting , our rigs have LP6000 halogen bars and 550 rear beacons, I left those and upgraded the front and side bumper lights (2 red 7000's to the front a M6 in the center in clear and a pair of 700 series red/clear to the sides,) and added a pair of 700 supper leds to the rear , we have since ordered the lights for the sides , in the end our engines will be NFPA compliant, and we have had the option to do all 3 first out engines for a cost that was less than a single led lightbar, the light bar would be nice , but 95% of the time were not really clearing traffic , and im mor concerned when we are on scene on the freeway .


another thing I believe in is that there is no single manufacturer that is the best, when building a vehicle I use the parts that are best suited for the install, or I try my best to do so, many times there are several manfacturers that are offering a product that is of equal quality and function as the other , my example would be the whelen CHMLS lights, sound offs predator series is a good comparison while federal signals that use the actual 3rd brakelight housings were poor, ( not the latest generation, im referancing the models that were released)
 
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NJEMT

Member
May 22, 2010
381
Essex County, NJ
I love halogens. The contractors that plow for I280 have some nice 4 becon rotator on the corners of the dump body and it is beautiful. I have an all LED setup in my car but I always have a Firebeam with the flash mirror in the back seat just for that nice rotating look. I even throw it on the ambulance every now and then just to have something different.
 
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Doug

Member
May 23, 2010
1,151
Maryland
HILO said:
Code 3's intersection sweeps made the MX7000 the most popular bar in the 90's. I dont think, even with LED bars, the warning power of a MX7000 with sweeps can be matched. Of course I never liked fast rotators. They never seemed to give the same punch as a slower rotator. That brief moment the rotator travels the other direction and then swings back into line of sight is still the most effective IMO.

Strobes have a good effect as well. I think LED's have become too bright, and are either a blur of white, or offer little to no defining out line of the EV.

Plus 1 on this, but a HUGE plus one on the fast rotators.


:thumbsup:
 
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Medicman695

Member
May 27, 2011
311
USA, MN
IMO you simply cannot beat the 360o visibility of a good halogen rotator (unless your using Powerarc). I see LED's as a great light for perimeter lighting on ambulances or fire apparatus but a terrible light for intersection clearing (depending on how they are mounted). We have a 4500 first gen all LED bar on our first out rig and it does a good job of lighting up the front but once you get past that 50-60o mark on the sides and you start loosing lighting coverage. For my money IMO you can't beat an MX7000, customized with all three LED, Strobe, and Halogen.
 

Sigma Safety

Member
May 21, 2010
766
western Canada
We still sell lots of Sentry rotators for upper/rear warning on fire apparatus. Cheap, excellent warning, easy to service.


However, we're starting to transition those customers to the new FedSig SLR rotator that's just coming out. Same warning power and the awesome TRUE rotator pattern (not a simulated rotating pattern) , but zero maintenance and much lower amp draw.
 

chono

Member
Jun 5, 2010
496
Midwest
leftcoastmark said:
We still sell lots of Sentry rotators for upper/rear warning on fire apparatus.

I was just thinking this. I think halogen rotators for the rear of firetrucks is great.
 

OSP959(R)

New Member
Mar 22, 2011
720
Ohio
My first patrol car had a Yankee lightbar with the big sealed beam bulbs. Ten I used a MX7000, Jetsonic with halogen/strobe, then a whelen edge, and ended my career using the vista and LED setup.


I still favor the halogen lights and the sweeping beam of light they give off, but I like the daytime visibility of the LED. I'm just not a fan of a 100% LED setup.


I guess my preference would be a halogen/LED setup.


I know the strobes in the jetsonic we had were worthless.


As stupid as this may sound, I think some LED's flash to fast. The older lights with a wig-wag setup in the bar always seems to get my attention more than the rotators will.
 

Zapp Brannigan

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 23, 2010
3,580
.
One of my favorite bars is/was the Whelen Patriot. It incorporated Strobe, LED (granted it was Gen I at the time, but these days could be upgraded), and optional flashing Takedowns.


Best of all 3 worlds (although Halogen TD's were not ROTATING halogen, I think you get my point).
 

Hoser

Member
Jun 25, 2010
3,704
Ohio
The flash patterns and coverage on items in the area flat out rule on a halogen or sealed beam light with mirrors. LEDs are great for a Blur or flood of light in an area, but they lack the precision patterns of light dancing, hitting and bouncing off objects.They both have there good/bad points. Just my .02 worth.
 

EVModules

Member
May 16, 2010
864
Deer Park, WA
Something to consider are initial costs (purchase & installation) and maintenance (replacing bulb vs replacing lighthead)


Halogens do have its place in my opinion and should definitely not be ruled out because of its simplicity & repairability.
 

theolog

Member
Dec 27, 2010
731
North Carolina
The MX7000 is my favorite lightbar of all time. They still have their place, but LEDs have obviously taken hold and are here to stay.


Oscillators and halogen rotators are amazingly effective, and I miss seeing their reflection bounce off of road signs and the road itself.


I do not like the way halogen and LED look when mixed, though. Halogen and strobe is fine, but the deep color of LEDs against halogen rotators make them look anemic, which they are not. It's more an aesthetic preference for me.


So, for fire apparatus and law enforcement I think they're still a perfectly viable option. Ambulances, not so much.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
Department around here were using vistas until last year. I still love seeing rotators on construction, dot, and highway trucks.
 

kadetklapp

Member
May 21, 2010
1,568
Indiana
When I was a kid, I could name off every lightbar on the market (in Gall's catalog) that I saw on a passing emergency vehicle. My parents were so proud.....


That being said, the bar I most ogled over was the MX-7000. It first came out in what, early 90s, late 80s?


I still say hands down it's the best halogen bar on the market (if it's still being made, not sure). I think many large-fleet departments that originally ran them should have just upgraded to LED guts and gotten another five to ten years out of the housings and frames. The cons are they are noisy, the rotators aren't made to last real long or in a vibration-prone environment, and that Code 3's plastic is quite cheap and flimsy. I think agencies which have peripheral emergency vehicles (swat vans, transport vans, fleet service vehicles, NYPD Forklift, etc) don't need the latest LED bar, but simply need a good used MX-7000 that they probably already have laying around in a closet somewhere.


But, alas, LED's are the future. I mean, you can't really beat 'em. Better day time warning, better warning in fog and snow (IMO), no moving parts, noiseless, low current draw, optional flash patterns, etc.


I still love to see a rotating PAR 36 beacon on modern equipment though.....I'm still wishing an LED optic would come out that would really make a PAR 36 retrofit pop.
 

Medicman695

Member
May 27, 2011
311
USA, MN
theolog said:
......Ambulances, not so much.

Not trying to start any big fight, I'm just curious as to your thoughts on this could you elaborate?
 

uniden278

Member
Oct 10, 2011
383
Winthrop, MA
We are running halogen (primary and secondary warning) on a lot of our ambulance still (type II and type III), though MOST of the newer units have been spec'd out LED. I actually prefer the look of the halogen, but fleet services has been replacing the type II's failing MX7000 lightbars, in particular, with Code 3 2100 LED bars, among other random retrofits...
 

StLFC-Mike

Member
May 24, 2010
23
SouthEast Wisconsin
Call me old fashioned... I prefer the old rotators for primary lighting and using LEDs as secondary. My dash is a Dashlaser and my rear deck is a Firebeam. My sides coverage is Microbeams in the front and rear windows.
 

theolog

Member
Dec 27, 2010
731
North Carolina
Medicman695 said:
Not trying to start any big fight, I'm just curious as to your thoughts on this could you elaborate?

Purely from a platform/aesthetic standpoint....no modern rotators that I can think of that would look good on a type 3.
 
Aug 1, 2011
608
Ballston Spa NY USA
most if not all of my stations trucks has a halogen bar. the ambulances have a strobe/halogen combo bar to the front and rear, tanker has a Excalibur, oldest pumper has a Advantedge, newest pumper has an Aerodynic, little pumper has a Streethawk and the rescue has a mx7000. the tanker is the newest out of all 7 trucks and it has a halogen bar as the primary warning. then upper and lower LED's
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
theolog said:
Purely from a platform/aesthetic standpoint....no modern rotators that I can think of that would look good on a type 3.
A 4500 on the box, or any lightbar on top of the cab (where they belong to begin with) is just fine. If a lightbar's put on a raised platform on the box, above the roof of the cab, it is universally ugly, except for special-purpose bars like the 4500.

This is where lightbars belong:


ai.imgur.com_RhFWW.jpg


This is where lightbars do not belong:ai.imgur.com_jsf70.jpg


Both images from here.
 
Aug 1, 2011
608
Ballston Spa NY USA
got one thats even weirder than that. a fire station local to my grandparents has this old 1980's E series van that has a 8 bulb XL9000.


awww.ufcbsfd.com_wp_content_uploads_2012_01_UFC_Website_006.jpg
 
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Station 3

Member
May 21, 2010
3,395
Edinburg Texas
One of our Crown vics has an old edge 4 corner strobe and 2 halogen flashers well it sucks and its FUGLY the local VFD has an old truck that is out of service with a SWEET MX7000 with clear lenses and red and blue and white mix lights on it. I have been staring at it for a while i kinda want to put it on our unit but i think the chief will say no :(
 

Hoser

Member
Jun 25, 2010
3,704
Ohio
Station 3 said:
One of our Crown vics has an old edge 4 corner strobe and 2 halogen flashers well it sucks and its FUGLY the local VFD has an old truck that is out of service with a SWEET MX7000 with clear lenses and red and blue and white mix lights on it. I have been staring at it for a while i kinda want to put it on our unit but i think the chief will say no :(

Well go for it, after all the least he can say is No!! Good Luck.
 

irsa76

Member
May 24, 2010
342
Australia, NSW
I love the Code 3 360 series light bars. I remember seeing one in action on an Ambulance I was working on and the amount of warning it puched out was impressive, halogen/strobe. Although it was one hell of a power hog. We did a test on another ambulance running an all halogen MX700, dual halogen rear beacons, HLF and grill strobes. Running all lights it was sucking 100amps! We were too scared to test with the siren, mainly on account we were standing right in front of the speaker.
 

irsa76

Member
May 24, 2010
342
Australia, NSW
theolog said:
You might be able to make that argument with the FedSig Vision SLR, not that piece of shit. :p :haha:

Never seen that model but the single beacon version is pretty popular here. Seems fairly effective, mainly due to the simple fact they actually work unlike most halogen rotator beacons around here!
 

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