Hatzolah Ambulance Manhattan 1

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
The split flash fail is strong with this one....
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
Gated Wye said:
Hatzolah now can use blue to the front? Guess they got a special "blessing" from the mayor?
White LEDs have a slight blue tint since they're actually blue LEDs with a coating of yellow phosphorus - different cameras pick that up in different ways.

Also, I don't see any reason at all to use manual on a siren, ever.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
That looks like front facing blue, which is technically a no-no, but a lot of departments do it anyways so it's all good. Again, no reason to always having the siren blaring. Definitley slpit fail, but if someone dies though those lights are perfect for a funeral car, looks purple even from up close, haha.
 

bwoodruff

Member
Aug 8, 2011
499
Upstate NY
lafd55 said:
no reason to always having the siren blaring

Except for the fact that in NYS it is the law. You are not an emergency vehicle if your siren is not activated.
 

C420sailor

Member
May 23, 2010
502
Virginia, USA
Looks white to me.


I use manual on the siren quite a bit. We have an older Whelen siren with the AWESOME manual Q tone (horn ring or MAN button in PA mode activates it). I'm the only person in the department who uses it. I think it sounds great!
 

LLS

Member
May 23, 2010
517
NYC
Its actually clear to the front, the camera seems to throw the color towards blue.
 

lafd55

Member
May 27, 2010
2,393
New York, USA
I thought everything was clear above the windshield, and everything was blue under it. Cuz to me the top definitely looks clear, I questioned the grille. We need a picture!
 

C420sailor

Member
May 23, 2010
502
Virginia, USA
All of our rigs have blue to the rear per the new NYS law. A few have a blue or two to the front (illegally, of course). A neighboring VAC has a green or two on some of their emergency vehicles. It's a volunteer pride thing.


But a VAC having blue to the front? LAME.


That being said, I still think these are white lights. If they're blue, they're a really sh!tty, weak blue. And I don't think HVAC skimps on equipment...
 

VolEms

Member
May 24, 2010
2,112
NY, USA
Its all Red/Clear to the front. If you look at his other vids all the clear LEDs appear Blue. So much for those ranting. Now what are you all going to complain about. This site is about the Vehicle not what colors they can and cant have.
 

Retired1

Member
Jun 1, 2010
1,912
Woodward County, OK
Why cannot I "like" the #1 post?


Added 09/04/13: The "Like" feature has been repaired. I am now able to "Like" the opening post. Thank you!!!!!!
 
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Blaine B.

Member
Aug 18, 2013
101
Northwest Indiana
If a light head is a split-color (as in the case of the Hatzolah vehicle), is it then "OK" to use a split flash?


If you flashed both different colored halves simultaneously, that wouldn't work well.


Agreed, a one-color light head without a split is ideal.
 

lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
Gated Wye said:
So you're going to tell me those grille lights and light bar are clear? i'll give it to you that the headlight's flashing are clear, but the rest... absolutely not.

Since this thread was resurrected, I'll tell you that you're wrong. The LED's to the front and sides are 100% red/clear. Even though it's all a splitfail mess. I used to live about six blocks away from where these ambulances are kept, so I've seen a good bit of them.
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
As usual, another example of hatzolah being cheap asses and not having nearly enough lighting on their vehicles...


JK. I agree that it does look blue to the front, but I've lived in NYC for a long time and I personally never saw blue to the front on any of their rigs (it just seems to be nearly every POV associated with them that uses more blue than what's allowed lol).


As for the siren, I definitely feel manual should not be used here (or anytime in manhattan), since there are people and vehicles on the city streets there 24/7. It's one thing to go without a siren if you're in a small residential suburb responding to a call at 3 AM and nobody else is on the road, but (especially during daytime and in such traffic as seen here) that driver should have that siren going at a minimum of wail at all times; a few "love taps" on the manual is ineffective while responding because the tone isn't as attention-grabbing, and too many EV drivers will not start tapping on the Manual until they're practically entering the intersection (and expect all the other idiots on the road to know they're approaching and stop at the drop of a pin). In congested city traffic, I personally will only drive on yelp or hyperyelp, to be honest, because I feel that wail and manual don't do enough with 5,000,000 ppl jaywalking with their heads down while texting or driving while texting/tweeting/etc
 
May 27, 2013
260
NY
How to use the siren is subjective. I use manual most of the time (I drive a bus in NYC). In heavy traffic, yes continuous siren on either yelp or phaser, but in less than heavy traffic, I believe manual is good enough..... Works for me in my experience of driving a bus in the city for some time.


Different people will think different things.... I personally think its obnoxious to have your siren blaring driving down a one way city street when you are the only vehicle driving down the block and people are walking down the sidewalk holding their ears because you are blaring your 200W siren. I also think its dangerous blaring a siren coming up to a parent pushing a baby stroller because the sirens are pretty much at level with the baby's ears and they are getting 200W in their ears with the potential of causing some real damage... You can come across this when turning a corner where a parent is waiting to cross with their child, or if you are coming up to a corner where they are halfway across the intersection and you literally blast them with it... So I am careful where I blare my siren, and I generally use the manual button most of the time... Lets face it, we're not going 60mph through the city streets with an ambulance, so we don't have to let people know we're coming from a mile away.
 
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Blaine B.

Member
Aug 18, 2013
101
Northwest Indiana
I have watched many of Dirk's rescue911.de videos including his FDNY ride-alongs and it it appears that "manual" is quite popular throughout NYC.


I personally like it, especially with PA300-type sirens that let the siren wind down. Unlike the Code 3 sirens which just abruptly cut off the siren when you release the button.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
A base KKK setup would be more effective in halogen.... what a waste.
 

dovy6

Member
May 18, 2011
206
Brooklyn
nerdly_dood said:
Also, I don't see any reason at all to use manual on a siren, ever.
It's a NYC thing, not a Hatzolah thing.


Many / most EVs responding in NYC traffic use manual. I dont think FDNY does, but FDNY EMS definitely does (as you can see in the video going opposite the H bus,) NYPD sure does, as well.
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
dovy6 said:
It's a NYC thing, not a Hatzolah thing.

Many / most EVs responding in NYC traffic use manual. I dont think FDNY does, but FDNY EMS definitely does (as you can see in the video going opposite the H bus,) NYPD sure does, as well.

FDNY apparatus mostly use manual with their custom wind down PA-300's (on older rigs) and the eq2b (on newer rigs). Mostly, the only time I've heard them use wail on an engine/aerial is in heavy traffic when nobody is moving out of their way. As for NYPD, you can tell when they're realllly hauling ass to get somewhere, because I hear the SS's hyperyelp and airhorn going nonstop

FollowingNFront said:
also think its dangerous blaring a siren coming up to a parent pushing a baby stroller because the sirens are pretty much at level with the baby's ears and they are getting 200W in their ears with the potential of causing some real damage... You can come across this when turning a corner where a parent is waiting to cross with their child, or if you are coming up to a corner where they are halfway across the intersection and you literally blast them with it... So I am careful where I blare my siren, and I generally use the manual button most of the time... Lets face it, we're not going 60mph through the city streets with an ambulance, so we don't have to let people know we're coming from a mile away.

I would hope that the parent would look around when at/near a crosswalk, especially when they hear a siren somewhere in the background, rather than getting halfway into the crosswalk and having the EV nearly on top of you. I don't want to blast a child's ear either, but the parent should be prudent & aware of his/her surroundings while in the entering a cross walk & pushing around one of their most important things in life (their child), especially because NYC streets are hectic to begin with, regardless of whether an EV is approaching. As for the people walking down the side of the streets with their ears covered, I can't help that, and I'm not going to turn the siren off while I'm responding just to spare them a few secs of hearing a siren go by. I've had so many people walk out in front of me (jaywalking, usually with their heads down) while responding code 3 down 1-way streets that I leave it on.
 
May 27, 2013
260
NY
Again, how to use the siren is subjective. I work in manhattan and have never hit a ped, etc. Using the manual ..... As you said yourself, you were going with Lights and sirens and someone walked out in front of your bus, so the siren didnt make a difference. There are idiots everywhere, just drive with due regard and you will be good. There is no need to blast your siren at 3am down a city street where you are the only vehicle on the street waking everybody up. Start hitting it a couple hundred feet from the intersection, slow down (stop) and clear the intersection while whooping the siren, and when you cross, stop hitting it. Again, traffic permitting.
 
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Rofocowboy84

Member
May 20, 2010
1,161
Centre County, PA
nerdly_dood said:
White LEDs have a slight blue tint since they're actually blue LEDs with a coating of yellow phosphorus - different cameras pick that up in different ways.

Also, I don't see any reason at all to use manual on a siren, ever.

Those are definitely blue, not white.


And the reason is because it's fun...duh...plus, if you know what you're doing, it can actually be more effective than just putting it on wail or yelp and letting it ride...
 

lotsofbars

Member
Jul 20, 2010
1,999
NYC, New York
Rofocowboy84 said:
Those are definitely blue, not white.

And the reason is because it's fun...duh...plus, if you know what you're doing, it can actually be more effective than just putting it on wail or yelp and letting it ride...

How many times do I have to say "they're white, not blue, I've seen them in person" before people stop saying that they're blue?!
 
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foxtrot5

New Member
Sep 26, 2011
3,002
Charleston Area, SC, US
nerdly_dood said:
Also, I don't see any reason at all to use manual on a siren, ever.

Ever? That's a pretty broad statement. Personally I find the more random bursts of manual to grab attention better than a constant on...

lotsofbars said:
How many times do I have to say "they're white, not blue, I've seen them in person" before people stop saying that they're blue?!

Easy there killer, if you're saying they're white I'm inclined to believe you since you're probably more familiar with this unit compared to most here on the board. Next time you see it, try to grab another video for us. It is possible that the particular camera used is simply making the white LOOK blue-ish.
 

CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
FollowingNFront said:
Again, how to use the siren is subjective. I work in manhattan and have never hit a ped, etc. Using the manual ..... As you said yourself, you were going with Lights and sirens and someone walked out in front of your bus, so the siren didnt make a difference. There are idiots everywhere, just drive with due regard and you will be good. There is no need to blast your siren at 3am down a city street where you are the only vehicle on the street waking everybody up. Start hitting it a couple hundred feet from the intersection, slow down (stop) and clear the intersection while whooping the siren, and when you cross, stop hitting it. Again, traffic permitting.


The NYS VTL mandates the siren for all authorized emergency vehicles except police vehicles whenever in emergency operation. You're needlessly exposing yourself to liability by using your emergency warning lights without a siren.
 
May 27, 2013
260
NY
CHIEFOPS said:
The NYS VTL mandates the siren for all authorized emergency vehicles except police vehicles whenever in emergency operation. You're needlessly exposing yourself to liability by using your emergency warning lights without a siren.

Me and the majority of all other EMTs and Paramedics in NYC. I even see fire trucks do it.


I use the siren. I just generally don't keep it blaring for every second that I'm en route to a job (of course like I said before there are exceptions like traffic and visibility and the type of job it is). Whooping it is still using the siren.


There are exceptions to the V&T about using the siren though. For instance, each call has a priority (1-7).... 1-6 is lights and sirens. 1 being the highest priority and it gets progressively lower as you get to 6 (counter-intuitive I know). 7 is the lowest priority and you are not even supposed to use lights and sirens to get there and you are supposed to obey all traffic laws. You're still responding to an emergency, but you're not using lights or sirens.


If a call comes over and in the text it states that a person stubbed their toe 2 days ago and now wants to get it checked out and its a priority 6, I'm going to get there a little slower than a cardiac arrest which is a priority 1. So for the stubbed toe, I'm still going to use lights and sirens, but I'm not going to go 45-50mph down Park Avenue like I would for a cardiac arrest. I'll probably go 30mph which is the speed limit. And if I'm going the speed limit and there are nothing but green lights all down the avenue, why blare the siren continuously for the .5 miles its going to take me to get to the person? In that situation, whooping the siren every few seconds to let people around you know you're there is just as effective and less obnoxious IMO.
 

CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
FollowingNFront said:
Me and the majority of all other EMTs and Paramedics in NYC. I even see fire trucks do it.

I use the siren. I just generally don't keep it blaring for every second that I'm en route to a job (of course like I said before there are exceptions like traffic and visibility and the type of job it is). Whooping it is still using the siren.


There are exceptions to the V&T about using the siren though. For instance, each call has a priority (1-7).... 1-6 is lights and sirens. 1 being the highest priority and it gets progressively lower as you get to 6 (counter-intuitive I know). 7 is the lowest priority and you are not even supposed to use lights and sirens to get there and you are supposed to obey all traffic laws. You're still responding to an emergency, but you're not using lights or sirens.


If a call comes over and in the text it states that a person stubbed their toe 2 days ago and now wants to get it checked out and its a priority 6, I'm going to get there a little slower than a cardiac arrest which is a priority 1. So for the stubbed toe, I'm still going to use lights and sirens, but I'm not going to go 45-50mph down Park Avenue like I would for a cardiac arrest. I'll probably go 30mph which is the speed limit. And if I'm going the speed limit and there are nothing but green lights all down the avenue, why blare the siren continuously for the .5 miles its going to take me to get to the person? In that situation, whooping the siren every few seconds to let people around you know you're there is just as effective and less obnoxious IMO.

Yeah, and the majority of NYC EMTs, Paramedics and fire apparatus chauffeurs are all wrong in how they use or don't use their sirens.


The only exception in the VTL with respect to sirens during emergency operation is for police vehicles, in NYS, 'call segments' or 'priorities' don't exempt you from the VTL. Your example of a stubbed toe is not an emergency so neither lights or siren are legally justified.


My only point is you're exposing yourself personally to liability in the event of a response-MVA and you were not using your siren when your emergency warning lights were displayed, they go to the dance together or not at all.
 

Phillyrube

Member
May 21, 2010
1,272
Flatistan
C420sailor said:
All of our rigs have blue to the rear per the new NYS law. A few have a blue or two to the front (illegally, of course). A neighboring VAC has a green or two on some of their emergency vehicles. It's a volunteer pride thing.

But a VAC having blue to the front? LAME.


That being said, I still think these are white lights. If they're blue, they're a really sh!tty, weak blue. And I don't think HVAC skimps on equipment...

Hey, did you leave Virginia Beach??
 
May 27, 2013
260
NY
CHIEFOPS said:
The only exception in the VTL with respect to sirens during emergency operation is for police vehicles, in NYS, 'call segments' or 'priorities' don't exempt you from the VTL. Your example of a stubbed toe is not an emergency so neither lights or siren are legally justified.

It seems that you don't know how the FDNY 911 system works...


Priorities are the ONLY thing that dictate whether we use lights and sirens or not... Whether you think a stubbed toe is an emergency or not (I think its bullshit too) does not change the fact that if the call taker/dispatcher classifies it as a priority 6 and it comes on my screen as a 6, and I DON'T use lights and sirens I will get an NOI and disciplinary action if an FDNY conditions boss catches me not "responding"....


Same goes for a priority 7.... EDP's are ALWAYS a priority 7 for EMS... You would say an EDP is an emergency right? Well, I'm not supposed to go lights and/or sirens to an EDP and I'm supposed to obey all traffic laws on the way there. No matter what the response is like, a 911 ambulance in NYC ONLY responds to "emergencies".


People throw the V&T around like its scripture but its not the end-all-be-all... Your profile says youre in NYC... Next time you see one of those FDNY Ford Excursions or GMC Silverados with the star of life on them (EMS conditions boss) ask them how the 911 system works for EMS with respect to responses and priorities.


I respond to a lot of calls that I consider to be bullshit that come over as priority 4's and lower.... Unfortunately you or I are not the judges of said emergencies and do not dictate the response. The Fire Dept. does.
 
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CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
FollowingNFront said:
It seems that you don't know how the FDNY 911 system works...

Priorities are the ONLY thing that dictate whether we use lights and sirens or not... Whether you think a stubbed toe is an emergency or not (I think its bullshit too) does not change the fact that if the call taker/dispatcher classifies it as a priority 6 and it comes on my screen as a 6, and I DON'T use lights and sirens I will get an NOI and disciplinary action if an FDNY conditions boss catches me not "responding"....


Same goes for a priority 7.... EDP's are ALWAYS a priority 7 for EMS... You would say an EDP is an emergency right? Well, I'm not supposed to go lights and/or sirens to an EDP and I'm supposed to obey all traffic laws on the way there. No matter what the response is like, a 911 ambulance in NYC ONLY responds to "emergencies".


People throw the V&T around like its scripture but its not the end-all-be-all... Your profile says youre in NYC... Next time you see one of those FDNY Ford Excursions or GMC Silverados with the star of life on them (EMS conditions boss) ask them how the 911 system works for EMS.


I respond to a lot of calls that are bullshit that come over as priority 4's and lower.... Unfortunately you or I are not the judges of said emergencies and do not dictate the response. The Fire Dept. does.

I do know how the NYC 911 System works, incidently, the NYPD runs 911, the FDNY runs EMS... I worked and volunteered in the 911 System before, during and after the FDNY takeover of EMS.


Regardless of how FDNY prioritizes it's calls, it's the VTL that defines what 'Emergency Operation' is. And the VTL is very clear, all authorized emergency vehicles except police vehicles are required to sound the siren and display emergency warning lights whenever engaged in emergency operation.


in english- if the lights are on, the siren must be on too.


You get involved in an MVA responding to a call with lights but no siren, any half-assed pardon the pun ambulance-chasing personal injury attorney will own you and don't count on the FDNY/NYC Corporation Counsel to indemnify you.
 

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