If you can choose

ERM

Member
May 22, 2010
720
Omaha, NE
Hello All,

Putting together the layout of our new minibars. Trying to piece together your thoughts of how it should be done.

The bar is shaped like a Code3 2100 bar, so, forward, rear, 2 sides and then angled front corners and angled rear corners. My question is this:

Where to put all the TIR and Linear lightheads or should we provide them as options during the build process? Should it be primarily TIR for the inner modules and then as it approaches the corners, go Linear? Directly forward, read and to the sides be TIR and the rest Linear?

Your thoughts and if you can, provide a why. If I'm missing something, I want to know what I'm missing.

Thanks,
Tony

Happy New Year to you all.
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
Tony, I def would keep corners all linear.

My recommendation, if you wanna limit options to simplify stocking: make the bar 100% linear modules. The only upgrade/option that I would offer is TIR clear steadyburn inboards (to the front/sides) with higher watt diodes & a well-tested heat sync for alley/TD

i would initially stray away from more user options (i.e. a build-a-bar program) until the waters are tested and you gauge the popularity & reception to the minibar.

Another option is to have dual colors that can be individually activated for vollie POVs (i.e. Amber for construction & blue for VFD). I would just keep it simple with combos of red, blue, & Amber, b/c I think it's kinda cheesy to have a minibar with clear full flood (since they're not really high intensity TDs or alleys).

I would also make sure to pay attention to the mounting feet b/c I find them to be so cheap-lookin on many minibars out there
 

ERM

Member
May 22, 2010
720
Omaha, NE
I like that rationale about lenses. Anyone else have any input or is the consensus the same?

As for colors, what seems to be the norm for color pairings? Blue/Blue, Red/Red, Red/Blue, Red/White, Blue/White, Amber/Amber. For dual color, that needs to be pretty specific as we don't want to have to stock Blue/Amber when most will need Blue/Red or Blue/White and so on. Thoughts?
 

Kevin K.

Member
May 23, 2010
321
Northampton County, PA, USA
I believe pdk9 is spot on with his suggestions. With regards to mounting feet, perhaps you can work with the company that manufactures the Cheetah straps used in Hawaii to offer secured mounting. If I were to ever use a minibar again, I'd use a Cheetah strap for mounting. Such an option greatly reduces the probability of instability and theft.

Are you going to offer a full-sized lightbar as well? If you're able to do so, I'd go for it. You can work with one or more local police department, and offer a fleet deal to purchase a number of full-sized bars. I think that'd be great for marketing.

Is there a projected release date for the minibar?
 
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bmd224

Member
Nov 3, 2011
324
NE Kansas
If you're going to compete with the big guys, & the flood of Chinese crap on the market, you need to do something totally different to stand out from the crowd.
For example, every manufacturer does several modules facing back & front, yet NO ONE puts more than one module facing the 45* angle on the corner--for notice at intersections. Yet, where do most emergency vehicle crashes occur? Intersections!
As a former accident scene investigator & emergency vehicle driving instructor, I can say definitively we need much more & unique intersection specific warning.
Here is an idea for you: two levels of light at the 45* corners of the bar (not on the end at 90* which does nothing until you're in the middle of the intersection & already vulnerable to a t-bone crash).
On the top level, I'd do a very slow flashing led light with a long dwell time & minimum off time, & on the bottom level I'd do a very fast flashing led light.
Studies have proven that citizen/drives eyes see motion /movement much better than seeing flashes, which gives the driver more time to react earlier & stop; preventing an intersection crash. Why is that true? This is a direct result of evolution & why the caveman who saw movement from a lion behind a bush was able to flee in time, versus the caveman who didn't see movement well who then became lion food.
Another thought: no manufacturers use mirrors in their lightbars at intersections. Two of the most effective vintage warning lights relative to their 'low' amp draw were the Aerodynic with its cascading mirror setup, & the firebean combo with the seven flash mirror. Putting a few very small triangle mirrors in between the led modules could greatly boost the crucial 45* warning power at intersections, without negatively affecting front & rear warning.
 

Kevin K.

Member
May 23, 2010
321
Northampton County, PA, USA
Nautech out of New Zealand offers a mini and full-sized lightbar called the Spectra, which offers a pair of LED modules at each corner at 45-Degree angle. Several of Premier Hazard's lightbars also offer this, including the lightbar sold in the US as the Javelin. Not to mention, ECCO has the 10 Series lightbar, in use by the Boise (ID) PD, which offers unique options for intersection warning.

Federal Signal really has the best to offer in intersection coverage using a lightbar chassis. Although it's nice if a lightbar can increase intersection performance, I think the use of dedicated intersection lights is the best solution for 45-Degree coverage.
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
I like that rationale about lenses. Anyone else have any input or is the consensus the same?

As for colors, what seems to be the norm for color pairings? Blue/Blue, Red/Red, Red/Blue, Red/White, Blue/White, Amber/Amber. For dual color, that needs to be pretty specific as we don't want to have to stock Blue/Amber when most will need Blue/Red or Blue/White and so on. Thoughts?

I would initially keep it very simple on the single color offerings: R/R, B/B, B/R, A/A. For dual color, I would only offer R/B, B/A, R/A. I know some ppl like R/C and B/C split bars, but I believe that you'll be stocking a lot more color combos than you need, since most state V&T laws specify red and/or blue but don't necessarily require clear. I mentioned above why I don't think you should initially offer dual color with clear being the second color. Again, this is just as you test the waters; if it gains a lot of popularity, then you can start to expand offerings.

I like BMD224's point about having 2 flash speeds for intersection, B/c I spec apparatus intersection lights with a mix of speeds (2 600 series intersection lights: one on the side of the bumper on signal alert and one mounted next to the grill lights at a 45 deg angle on the 300 FPS single flash) , but I wouldn't worry about that on a minibar, b/c then you'd have to make it larger like a mini freedom (which is not what most ppl are looking for on their POVs). However, when you're on a POV or SUV, you don't have all the space to mount that many intersection lights, so I recommend signal alert in minibars b/c it's a combination of moderately fast flash and single slow flash
 

ERM

Member
May 22, 2010
720
Omaha, NE
For these intersection patterns, is this something that should be on constantly, or triggered on when approaching the intersection and resumes normal flashing after a predetermined time (i.e. trigger switch activates this mode for 30 seconds before returning to being in-sync with the other lightheads)?
 

WireKing

Member
Dec 16, 2010
523
USA Southwest
There is a problem with worrying about intersection coverage on a lightbar, especially a minibar. You aren't solving the fundamental issue at hand which is the lightbar is not the first thing sticking out in an intersection. The nose of the vehicle is. No matter what the bar is equipped with to flash towards the sides on an approaching intersection, it won't be enough especially if you are talking about a narrow side street or large vehicles in the lanes next to the POV/ emergency vehicle. Many times drivers at a right angle to the oncoming EV just don't see it coming. I think there is too much thought trying to solve this problem with a lightbar when properly installed and setup lighting on the push bar or front fender edges will be the first thing drivers pay attention too as the EV inches into the intersection. Unless you are going to mount a lightbar on your hood in place of the bull horns on your 1971 Eldorado, it's never going to be as effective as properly executed fender/bumper mounted lighting.

Until someone makes a McDermott style bar that folds forward towards the hood of the vehicle and flashes at 45 and 90 degrees then fold back away after clearing through then I'm afraid intersection clearing on a mini or even full size bar just won't be the only solution.

BTW, when I use the word "you", I don't mean you personally. I mean all of us in one capacity or another.
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
For these intersection patterns, is this something that should be on constantly, or triggered on when approaching the intersection and resumes normal flashing after a predetermined time (i.e. trigger switch activates this mode for 30 seconds before returning to being in-sync with the other lightheads)?

It's a good idea in theory, but that sounds like a lot more programming would be required for that (i.e. SOS blue print) and will continue to drive up the cost and the number of switches required. Have a few patterns that alternate slow and fast (i.e. 1 similar to signal alert, 1 fast triple flash followed by 1 slow triple flash, etc). In the end, everybody has different preferences. One thing that I would recommend is having the 2-3 rocker switches built into the cig plug and having a hardwire version of the bar.

I agree with wire King that the real intersection is properly-mounted* lightheads at the front nose of the car and are the first things seen as you edge into the intersection (*ie properly mounted means linear lights mounted horizontally)
 

EastSide279

Member
Apr 11, 2013
56
CT
I agree make it all linear. Better off axis light dispersal and without going through any tint it would still provide plenty of light output. Also makes building the bar easier only having one style of light head. I would make the bar have two flash modes, such as one for responding and a slower mode for on scene..
 

ERM

Member
May 22, 2010
720
Omaha, NE
OK, now that we've established the modules and styles, let's discuss the motherboard and it's features.

Right now, you guys are use to just cycling through the flash pattern list and finding the one you like most.

Keeping up with our tradition of being able to customize the product in the field, what would you like to see? Feel free to provide some details or add to what I am suggesting below.

1) Ability to isolate front from rear (front off or rear off)
2) This will have our programmable patterns to it (i.e. custom flash rate, pulse count, pairing selection)
3) If it were to have takedown/work or alleys, do you want them to flash with the other lightheads or have their own flash activation wire? Obviously it's own steady burn activation wire if it has this feature.

I will come up with the corner module intersection solution. As for the feature mentioned above, make this only on the front corner modules, or both front and rear corner modules?

Tony
 

pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
Definitely have flashin TDs/Alleys and the ability to activate rear only. Also a steadyburn cruise mode would be nice for nighttime safety.
As I mentioned above, I really don't think you need to do anything special for the corner modules (except, of course, having more diodes in the corner modules than in the inboards)...adding another level of lightheads there is just gonna drive up the price and size of the unit
 

ERM

Member
May 22, 2010
720
Omaha, NE
Flashing via an alley flash trigger or flash when fronts are on?

I don't have the option of more than one level, so the intersection pattern will be a cruise/flash mix.
 

bpollard

Member
Jun 13, 2010
422
USA, SC
I think all LED lightbars need two activation wires. So you can select two different patterns, and trigger either one when desired. For example, one for day and another for night. Or one for response and one for parked.

Personally i think bars should have a nighttime parked mode, that deactivates all but a couple lightheads and dims/slows the pattern. I am tired on having siezures at night and i think the lights are making our scenes less safe.
 
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pdk9

Member
May 26, 2010
3,834
New York & Florida
If possible, a dimming mode might be nice for nighttime. Granted, I know this would be hard on cig plug models (b/c more rocker switches on the cig plug would make it more bulky), but on the hardwire models, it's def nice to have. All of our newer Pierce apparatus and Horton rescues are a disaster to drive behind at night b/c the rear is soooo blinding. Granted, they have the programming capabilities to be dimmed (M-series) but the idiots that spec our trucks don't know anything useful about lights. It's definitely a nice option to have, since your end user will most likely be POV owners (that take the time to program everything the way they want it).

Also, are you going with 1 Watt or 4 Watt LEDs? I def think that going with the latter is worth the extra money and will separate you from other "private brand" LED products.
 

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