Info on CJ184's

[Sarge619]

I've recently taken possession of two Federal Signal CJ184's (both in beautiful condition, both with nearly flawless domes, one blue, one red) and wanted to tap the unlimited supply of knowledge from those that frequent this site who know about the details of FS beacons :


The first one I acquired is identified via the front tag as a "SERIAL (series) A1", while the second, newer unit is listed as a "SERIES E2". The A1 version spells out the company name as it was originally known; "Federal Sign and Signal" while the E2 shows the company name as simply "Federal Signal" (I've seen newer series CJ's that sported just the "FS" logo in the past also).


I'm curious what significant differences there were in the various series (i.e. motor types, siren drivers, etc.). I've noticed on my two CJ's that the A1 and E2 chrome plating processes seem slightly different, with the newer E2 being a less brilliant plating process than the older A1.


Also, what was the significant difference between a CJ184 and a CJ284? On one hand I was told it was a different drive system (belt vs. gear - although I've seen pics of what was identified as a CJ284 and it had a belt drive just like my CJ184's) and on the other hand it was the size of the siren driver (58 watt vs. 100 watt). Not sure if any of these explanations were accurate or not. Can someone shed some light (pun intended) on this for me?


Mostly, I'm curious as to the production dates associated with the various series (especially what the last alpha-numeric series number was). As a novice, I'd assume that the A1 would be the first in the series when they debuted in the early 60's? How long were the A1's produced before the next versions replaced them? When would the E2 series have started production? I'm trying to get a better "ball-park" sense of the age of these lights. I know from the seller that the E2 came off a seventies vintage Mack fire truck from Pennsylvania which was upgraded with LED lighting, but have no idea what the A1 was once mounted on, be it police, fire or EMS vehicle.


Once I receive my new gasket this week for the E2 light (the original was pretty well beat and in need of replacement - it's only fault), I'll post pics of these beauties.


Many Thanks in advance for any info!


Mike

 

[ryan]

cj184 58watt cj284 100watt

 

[stansdds]

Putting exact dates of manufacture on these beacons is nearly impossible to do except for the late production units which often have the date in ink on the motor. The Serial A1 was the first production design, introduced around 1965. From there they went to the Series E1, Series E2, and finally the Series A4, the A4 production ended around 1990. That's all I know about the manufacturing of the CJ-184 and 284.

 

[Clarence H]

The series numbers denote changes in the mechanicals and parts. I don't know the breakdown, but they changed the motors at one time.


Clarence

 

[stansdds]

The Series A4 did have the skeletonized aluminum lamp holders and the smaller diameter motors common to the later production TwinSonic and the gear driven Aerodynics.

 

[Sirenman]

The reason for the color difference in the metal of the base is that the A-1 is chrome plated brass and the E-2 is Stainless steel. The CJ-184 has a 58 watt driver and the CJ-284 has a 100 watt driver.


John Dorgan

The Series A4 did have the skeletonized aluminum lamp holders and the smaller diameter motors common to the later production TwinSonic and the gear driven Aerodynics.

 

[Sarge619]

Thanks for the info guys! I had mistakenly thought that the series number would have denoted the range of production dates (i.e. A1 produced from 1965 to 1970, etc.) for a particular group of lights, but I'm glad you were able to educate me to the fact that it actually indicates physical changes made to the basic light over it's production history.


In removing the skirt on my A1, I see a date of 1973 barely visible stamped in ink on the motor. Assuming it's not a replacement motor, I guess I now know the production date of that particular light. Haven't taken the E2 apart yet, but maybe I'll get lucky and it will have a "build date" stamped on the motor of that one.


Thanks also for clarifying and confirming the difference between a 184 and a 284.


Hope to have pics up this week (once my new base gasket arrives).

 

[Sarge619]

As promised, here's pics of my two CJ184's

 

[Clarence H]

As promised, here's pics of my two CJ184's

Those are Nice!


Clarence

 

[Sarge619]

Those are Nice!
Clarence

Thanks... these have always been my all-time favorite beacon since I was just a lad.

 

[rick h.]

WOW Beautiful lights

 

[CrownVic97]

They look great! A very nice pair of CJs indeed :yes:

 

[Black Hoe]

Absolutely Gorgeous!

 

[orion61243]

Those are nice looking beacons. These are also my favorite lights. Federal signal had a great concept when they produced these beacons and I'm sure that's why they were able to keep them in production for 25yrs or so. True 360 degree coverage and a built in siren before OSHA rules mandated otherwise! As a side note, our county started buying Chrysler K cars in the 80's and had these installed on top for the deputies. The weight of the beacons caused the roof of the little cars to dent in and rainwater would pool on top of the cars!

 

[Wailer]

The first CJ184s I remember seeing were on a city police patrol car, a battalion chief's station wagon, and three pumper trucks back in 1970-71. All of them were used in conjunction with late 1960s era Federal PA15A series 1D and PA20A series 2D sirens with the deep slow rising low-pitched wail and yelp tones. Those sirens sounded awesome with the CJ184 speaker.

 

[flahotrod]

Thanks... these have always been my all-time favorite beacon since I was just a lad.

Yes, they are my favorites to this day, too.


You have two beautiful examples. Congratulations. Enjoy. :thumbsup:

 

[Wigwam700]

Those are nice looking beacons. These are also my favorite lights. Federal signal had a great concept when they produced these beacons and I'm sure that's why they were able to keep them in production for 25yrs or so. True 360 degree coverage and a built in siren before OSHA rules mandated otherwise! As a side note, our county started buying Chrysler K cars in the 80's and had these installed on top for the deputies. The weight of the beacons caused the roof of the little cars to dent in and rainwater would pool on top of the cars!

That must have been a sight, do you have any photos?


Thanks Todd

 

[Wigwam700]

As promised, here's pics of my two CJ184's

Great photos.


Thanks Todd

 

[Sarge619]

Great photos.
Thanks Todd

Thanks Todd!

 

[Hoser]

Nice lights, I should have had a bunch of them back in the day. The belt drive ones became a PIA after they got some time on them, either slow turn or no turn.

 

[Sarge619]

Nice lights, I should have had a bunch of them back in the day. The belt drive ones became a PIA after they got some time on them, either slow turn or no turn.

Thanks! I always liked the looks of these and Whelen's "Commander" series PA-strobe beacons (were the revolving versions called "Commanders" too?). I'll probably start searching for some examples of Whelen Commander 5000-PA and 5200-PA's to add to my collection (I'm told I'll need alot of luck and some serious $$). I did find what appears to be NOS 5200-PA, they look beautiful, but the price tage makes me very hesitant:


Whelen Strobe II Model 5200-PA (U0433)- Fenton Fire - Used Fire Trucks - We sell quality pre-owned fire engines, tankers, ladders, rescues, ambulances, quints in USA, Canada and beyond.


I heard a tip from a retired Maryland trooper who drove CJ184-equipped cruisers back in the day to keep the belts from slipping: form a "figure 8" out of the drive belt and they'd tend to slip less! Also, I heard you could increase the speed of the rotation by modifying the motor/drive assembly. Supposedly, FHP officers did this to make them look more like strobes;


Federal signal cj284 - YouTube

 

[plybeep68]

Beautiful Beacons !!! Very Nice, Always liked the way they looked on the old Plymouths, like in the movie Smokey and the Bandit

 

[CrownVic97]

Also, I heard you could increase the speed of the rotation by modifying the motor/drive assembly. Supposedly, FHP officers did this to make them look more like strobes;

Federal signal cj284 - YouTube

A rubber grommet over the drive spindle is the trick for acheiving this. CFD125 had a thread about it called "CJ184 on crack," but I think that's gone now. I found his picture showing the simple mod:





That's all there is to it :thumbsup: .

 

[Sarge619]

A rubber grommet over the drive spindle is the trick for acheiving this. CFD125 had a thread about it called "CJ184 on crack," but I think that's gone now. I found his picture showing the simple mod:




That's all there is to it :thumbsup: .

Thanks for the tip!! I think I'll try that on one my babies.... just for sh@t's and grins, of course!

 

[CrownVic97]

Haha...you bet, man.

 

[oldironcollector]

Here is a photo of the Sheriffs office in the county I grew up in and used to work for. This was taken sometime in the 70's. When I was a kid. Our State Trooper cars also used the X84 series.

 

[Sirenman]

If you want to speed one up that has a slipping belt, just flip one end into a figure eight. It will speed up the light, but also cause it to rotate in the opposite direction.


John Dorgan

 

[flahotrod]

Supposedly, FHP officers did this to make them look more like strobes;

Federal signal cj284 - YouTube

It was FHP itself, not individual troopers, that did this. Those lights on their entire fleet had super-fast rotations.

 

[Sarge619]

Here is a photo of the Sheriffs office in the county I grew up in and used to work for. This was taken sometime in the 70's. When I was a kid. Our State Trooper cars also used the X84 series.

GREAT pic!! I love seeing all that old iron with CJ's as far as the eye can see!

 

[Sarge619]

If you want to speed one up that has a slipping belt, just flip one end into a figure eight. It will speed up the light, but also cause it to rotate in the opposite direction.
John Dorgan

Thanks for the info John!

 

[Sarge619]

It was FHP itself, not individual troopers, that did this. Those lights on their entire fleet had super-fast rotations.

Great factoid! Interesting that the agency itself made the modifications. I like the way they look at both speeds, but those hyper-fast units really do catch your eye.

 

[flahotrod]

Yep, that's a great picture.


I'd say it was taken in '78 or '79. The Fords are from '75 through '79. The Pontiac LeMans in the middle is from '76 or '77. The Pontiac Bonneville in the front is from '78 or '79, but I'm guessing it's a '79.

 

[flahotrod]

Great factoid! Interesting that the agency itself made the modifications. I like the way they look at both speeds, but those hyper-fast units really do catch your eye.

Yep, you tell it was a trooper from miles away, especially at night, by the speed the light was turning.

 

[Sarge619]

OK... time to play "poll the experts" again.


I've been shopping around for more CJ's, domes and related material and ran across a website with several C184 and CJ184's for sale. The descriptions noted if the light had an original FS dome or substitute, and if a FS dome, identified it as a "F2" or "F3". I figured as the more informed/educated members here were able to steer me in the right direction as to what the series numbers on the lights indicated, perhaps they could do the same regarding these "dome codes".


In looking at the pictures of the lights, my tired old eyes could not really see any difference in taper, top profile, or details between a F2 or a F3. What, if any, is the difference between the two, and what do the "2" and "3" suffix denote? Does it delineate a production series for the domes as the lights have (i.e. A1, E2, etc.)? Does it identify the material the dome is made from? Is it a condition rating used by dealers/collectors?


Sorry to keep asking questions, but I could not find any definitive answer elsewhere and am trying to learn as much about these lights as possible and now know this is the place to turn for the facts.


Thanks in advance!


Mike

 

[plybeep68]

Hey Mike, I am no expert by no means but i thought the F2's were for the Model 11, 14 and 100's. The F3 was for the CJ's and 184's. I am sure someone on here will clear this up. If you dont mind me asking what website did you found?

 

[Sarge619]

Hey Mike, I am no expert by no means but i thought the F2's were for the Model 11, 14 and 100's. The F3 was for the CJ's and 184's. I am sure someone on here will clear this up. If you dont mind me asking what website did you found?

Great Lakes Fire Store | Vintage Lights & Sirens, Duty Tees.


Yeah, I'd seen mention of a "F2" dome for the 11, 14 and 100 in a thread on here too. That's one of the things that confused me about the listings for the lights for sale. There's NO way a dome made for those smaller lights would fit on a 184 series beacon, so I figured the "F" number had to stand for something else (unless it was a typo on his 184 series lights and he meant to say F3 for all of them. That's a possibility). If you read the descriptions of the model 14 lights he has for sale, they are listed as either having original or NOS "F2" domes also. That's one of the things that prompted me to ask the question here (I actually emailed the site owner regarding this, but hadn't heard back so I figured I'd throw it out to the forum).

 

[CrownVic97]

Sarge, the dome part number for the 184/CJ184/CJ284 is F3, and are 10 inches in diameter. The F2 domes are only for the Model 11, 14, and 100 beacons; also, they go with the rare 143, 144, and 044 beacons as well. F2 domes are 8 inches in diameter. I'm guessing the fella on Great Lakes Fire Store just made a mistake in not putting the 3 in the dome description for the 184s.

 

[Sarge619]

Sarge, the dome part number for the 184/CJ184/CJ284 is F3, and are 10 inches in diameter. The F2 domes are only for the Model 11, 14, and 100 beacons; also, they go with the rare 143, 144, and 044 beacons as well. F2 domes are 8 inches in diameter. I'm guessing the fella on Great Lakes Fire Store just made a mistake in not putting the 3 in the dome description for the 184s.

That makes sense. Once again, thanks to the group for answering my questions!


Mike

 

[flahotrod]

I love the CJ184 lights. I am always looking to get one for my collection, if I can find one I can afford. They certainly hold their value and just about always sell above my price limitations.

 

[Sarge619]

I love the CJ184 lights. I am always looking to get one for my collection, if I can find one I can afford. They certainly hold their value and just about always sell above my price limitations.

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