Installers... What technique do you use?

WNYEVS

WNYEVS

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May 21, 2010
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Brockport NY
While I was getting my butt handed to me working on this, I had some time to myself to think about posting something regarding this subject. How do you guys go about designing your power distribution and warning system controls? Hopefully there aren't too many people that choose the same route as the garbage we had to fix (one billion feet of wire and 30 circuit breakers).


Where do you tend to mount the majority of distribution and control items? I know it depends on the vehicle. Do you do it all in the console or elsewhere? Do you draw it out by hand or with a computer before the job or do you just "wing it"?


I know there are some trade secrets out there. I am not trying to steal any ideas from anyone. I am just asking a few questions I came up with while dealing with that mess.
 
I typically end up winging it. It seems like anytime I get a plan the department wants something done differently. I always do amp calculations etc before hand to know what size wire and such I will need but sometimes that gets messed with as well. As far as where to distribute everything that always changes depending on the vehicle, amount of lights and accessories, the size of the console, etc. Sometimes the only way to figure it out is to have everything in your hands and start test fitting.
 
I use the following method regarding power distribution:


First, I sit down and make a list of equipment under headings +12 volts, ignition, timer, etc. This list also contains the appropriate fuse rating for each piece of equipment. Next I re-write the list grouping 2-4 power leads (various colors ease confusion at the equipment end) together keeping in mind mounting location for each. At this point determine the correct wire gauge for the application and the groups of 2-4 power leads get twisted together via vice and drill. Larger gauge (12 and up) wires should be grouped together and must be taped with a couple rounds of electrical tape every foot or may be completely taped with harness tape. Depending on the vehicle and amount of equipment I find a piece of real estate large enough to arrange the entire power distribution system. ( This is stolen from the vehicle manufactures, they label and arrange all of their fuses in one, two, maybe three spots in the car and are somewhat easy to access. Seems like a good model.) This system will consist of a fuse block ( I stock 3,6,9,12 gang) for each power type (+12, ign, timer, etc.) and a relay large enough to carry everything but the +12 fuses. Run a master circuit breaker (man trip/reset) from the battery to the +12 fuse block and wire everything (power thirsty radios also get wired from the output of the master circuit breaker with and in-line fuse) off of this. Tripping the master circuit breaker will kill ALL of the aftermarket equipment minimizing the possibility of the dealer pointing at you for any of their issues (they will still try). This also makes it very easy to test the key off parasitic drain. Run an appropriately fused wire from an ignition circuit to control your relay powering your ignition fuses. This is one of the only fuses in my up-fits that is not with the rest of the power distribution. Label ALL fuses and fuse blocks to make trouble shooting and other maintenance a breeze. Provide a printout of fuse locations and values along with the serial numbers of the equipment to the customer. Of course this doesn't make sense in all circumstances an leaves out many details of running these power wires. I use non-pass through studs connected to the - battery or a factory ground point and wire the ground side of equipment to these. Again appropriate wire gauge calculations are necessary. If you need any more clarity with any of this let me know, I'm better at doing than writing. Hope this helps.


I personally don't like circuit breakers, except a high capacity as a master. If a breaker is tripping there is almost certainly something that needs attention. If a fuse blows more than once, you are forced to investigate a possible issue. I see very few fuses blow.


Power distribution mounting locations: (just what I do)


Anything with a trunk: on a trunk tray (preferred, but most of my accounts won't (can't) buy them.


If no trunk tray:


Crown Vic: rear pass. side of trunk


Charger: under cup holders at the rear of a Havis console


Impala: rear pass side of trunk


Ram or F-150: in cubby under front center seat


Explorer: same as Charger or in forward rear compartment in cargo area ( other SUV's too)


Expedition: same as Explorer


Different circumstances may influence different locations.
 
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I too plan everything out by calculating the amp load of each piece of equipment, then utilize the proper gauge master cable(s) from the battery to the distribution box. I only use manually resettable circuit breakers or a maxi fuse for the main cable at the battery.


I take pride in creating a wiring harness that is similar to the MNSTAR kits. My goal is always to have an installation that can be not only shown off but is the safest it can possibly be. The install should outlast the vehicle in my opinion. I HATE rat nests of wires and jerry-rigged equipment.


My customers return to me not because of a wiring problem but because they have another vehicle they need done! Quality installations sell themselves!!
 
I do it similar to Code4services except I don't power twist the wires as it tends to bulk up a bit. Most of the time, actually almost all the time, I mount the equipment and power distribution center on a good quality plywood covered with speaker carpet or blank depending on where it's mounted. This is usually the beginning of the installation process when all the wire lengths are known and are precut & assembled on the board. The only other things running TO the equipment board are lightbar cables, coax, etc.
 
We use MNStar Enforcer Systems wiring harnesses and power distribution systems. They're expensive (about 300 bucks for a good harness), but well worth the cash. They reduce installation time by pretty much allowing you to run all the wiring you'll ever need all at once. Everything is pre-labeled, wrapped, and ready to go, and they're damn near indestructible.


As far as technique, just map out what you're doing ahead of time, and know what you're doing when you're doing it, instead of just flying by the seat of your pants. It reduces mistakes, and keeps you focused on the overall install.
 
Dan,


I buy these fuse blocks from Midterm Inc, in CA.


BB-3, BB-6, BB-9, BB-12


http://www.midterminc.com/index.html?target=front.html〈=en-us


I have used mostly these and the Blue Sea versions. The Blue sea's covers are nice and they may be slightly higher quality, but I don't like the size and the fact that they have wires exiting them on two sides. The BB-# are much more compact and allow all wires to exit one side making them friendlier in tight spots and I have never had one fail.


SANY0001 (2).jpg
 
Chargeguards keep a circut powered up for a set amount of time after the vehicle is shut off. It is great for Computer docking stations. CPU's and camera systems. It prevents dead batteries from accessories being constantly powered by the battery when the vehicle is off. I have used them for years. Before that we used copeland timers.
 
Bigredinstalls said:
You're atleast the second person I've seen using a charge guard. What does it do and why use it?
Click to expand...

It is an adjustable ignition sensing shut-off timer.


Basically they prevent dead batteries by shutting down equipment after a period of time, but still allow it to function after the ignition is shut off. This is important for equipment like computers that you want to temporarily stay on while the vehicle is off to prevent having to log back onto different programs. This is just one example, the uses are endless. I have also used them to control a large relay to control item that would normally be controlled by an ignition circuit.


Features & Benefits:

  • Chargeguard-select
  • Self-contained unit provides circuit protection for a vehicle's power system
  • Regulated by a programmable timer
  • Prevents dead batteries
  • LED indicates under and over voltage conditions
  • Protects mobile Electronics from voltage anomalies
  • Height 1: 1.3 in (3.2 cm), height 2: 3.8 in (9.7 cm), width 1: 3.7 in (9.3 cm)
  • Weight: 0.57 lbs (0.03 kg)
  • Shipping Weight: 1.00 lbs


(ABOVE IS FROM THE HAVIS WEB SITE)


EV Moudules has a version that is smaller which is appealing to me, so I going to try their version and see how it performs. The EV module has a much lower standby current which is a huge plus. See link below:


http://www.evmodules.com/product_power_mgnt.html#2
 
I almost always wing it on an install. It is very rare for me to have a written out plan, and if it is, then it is just a rough estimate.


I usually use 2 power runs, one for the lightbar to tie directly to the battery via a circuit breaker, and another for the console and everything else to tie into the battery via a circuit breaker. The departments that I do installs for are very limited on their budget, basically a lightbar and corner strobes is all they can afford. I will usually run a 8 gauge power cable into the bottom of the console, where it is then put into a fuse block for distribution to the different radios, siren, and switch panel.


I use the basic prinicple of fused or circuit breaker at the battery, then to a distribution block located as close to the equipment as possible, which keeping everything reasonably accessable.


I should have taken pictures of all the installs that I have had to go in and correct. We had a local company that would not cut wires, they would bundle them up and shove the extra under the carpet. Used wire nuts on several connections, and used wires that were way undersized for the circuit. They have since gone out of business, and I have slowly been pulling those vehicles out of my fleet and rewiring them.


My best advice, when in doubt, a bigger gauge wire within reason never hurt.


Paul


Now a questoin that I've had, how do you guys achieve ground distribution inside of your consoles? I've got some fuse blocks that have a ground block portion, but I was wondering what everyeone else is using for that.
 
blackcherryxj said:
I almost always wing it on an install. It is very rare for me to have a written out plan, and if it is, then it is just a rough estimate.

I usually use 2 power runs, one for the lightbar to tie directly to the battery via a circuit breaker, and another for the console and everything else to tie into the battery via a circuit breaker. The departments that I do installs for are very limited on their budget, basically a lightbar and corner strobes is all they can afford. I will usually run a 8 gauge power cable into the bottom of the console, where it is then put into a fuse block for distribution to the different radios, siren, and switch panel.


I use the basic prinicple of fused or circuit breaker at the battery, then to a distribution block located as close to the equipment as possible, which keeping everything reasonably accessable.


I should have taken pictures of all the installs that I have had to go in and correct. We had a local company that would not cut wires, they would bundle them up and shove the extra under the carpet. Used wire nuts on several connections, and used wires that were way undersized for the circuit. They have since gone out of business, and I have slowly been pulling those vehicles out of my fleet and rewiring them.


My best advice, when in doubt, a bigger gauge wire within reason never hurt.


Paul


Now a questoin that I've had, how do you guys achieve ground distribution inside of your consoles? I've got some fuse blocks that have a ground block portion, but I was wondering what everyeone else is using for that.
Click to expand...

In my pictures above, you'll see a non-pass through stud(http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/47211/JUNCTION%20BLOCK%20STUD%20TYPE%20BLACK/) (I refer to it as a ground stud) mounted near the fuse panels. I run an appropriate main ground wire from this stud to the battery or an appropriate factory ground location. Equipment then can be grounded to this stud. This doesn't differ much from the power side except you don't need the fuses so you can use a stud. These ground studs are isolated from the vehicles body to prevent ground loops.
 
What do you do to get power from the running lights for the siren, and or switchbox back light.
 
Here is one I made for my Jeep. I made the board to fit under my drivers seat.


ai737.photobucket.com_albums_xx13_theroofable_1230002102.jpg

Bigredinstalls said:
What do you do to get power from the running lights for the siren, and or switchbox back light.
Click to expand...
They make fuse taps which work fine, just go off of an unused fuse or an existing one which is ignition controlled, such as a radio one. Police prep vehicles sometimes come with an exsisting ignition wire I believe.
 
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code4services.com said:
Dan,

I buy these fuse blocks from Midterm Inc, in CA.


BB-3, BB-6, BB-9, BB-12


http://www.midterminc.com/index.html?target=front.html&lang=en-us


I have used mostly these and the Blue Sea versions. The Blue sea's covers are nice and they may be slightly higher quality, but I don't like the size and the fact that they have wires exiting them on two sides. The BB-# are much more compact and allow all wires to exit one side making them friendlier in tight spots and I have never had one fail.


View attachment 2673
Click to expand...

These are much nicer than what i have been using. Very affordable too. Thanks for posting.
 
code4services.com said:
Dan,

I buy these fuse blocks from Midterm Inc, in CA.


BB-3, BB-6, BB-9, BB-12


http://www.midterminc.com/index.html?target=front.html〈=en-us


I have used mostly these and the Blue Sea versions. The Blue sea's covers are nice and they may be slightly higher quality, but I don't like the size and the fact that they have wires exiting them on two sides. The BB-# are much more compact and allow all wires to exit one side making them friendlier in tight spots and I have never had one fail.


View attachment 2673
Click to expand...

Thanks Jared, I will look into these.


I use mostly the Blue Sea stuff (dealer for them), but have been looking for alternatives for when I have only a few items to wire in on customers POVs.
 
Wow! That's pretty work, my friend. You'd vomit if you saw the wiring in our cars. It's a mess of wires everywhere (console, under the floormats, trunk, etc.).
 
Beautiful power distribution! Would you care to share how you set up the switching/distribution for the lighting specifically? Does each "grouping" of lights get its own relay and distribution 'bus'?
 
WNYEVS said:
This is one of my favorite threads now. I love seeing all of those pictures of the power distribution!
Click to expand...

Same here... It gives me ideas for my Av when I redo it in the Spring/Summer... Plus it gives me ideas for future installs...
 
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code4services.com said:
This "behind the scenes wiring" is what makes a truly reliable and serviceable up-fit. I detail pictures like this in a section of the power point I use for presentations with favorable results. :D
Click to expand...

I agree with that. It also provides motivation for me and my business partner!
 
Here is an example of my work, from my 2010 CVPI take-home.


ai18.photobucket.com_albums_b101_Dariomend_CVPI_DSCF1667.jpg_a7d68151d0269156f0b355cdabece1dd.jpg


My customers appreciate my work and approach to installation. BTW, the green heatshrink was an idea I played with to mark my work. I have since abandoned it and returned to basic black. Oh, and the terminal strip is double stacked. I had a more detailed thread on the old old board, but not sure how to find it.
 
We did some install work for EMSA in Oklahoma. The setup here is similar to what has already been posted in the thread. I'll try and see if I can dig up some more stuff to provide an example.


I guess the best advice I can give is to keep everything organized from the start.

install-progress42.jpg
 
European style installation!


Unfortunatly our cars are a lot smaller and the dashboard doesn't provide as much space as the american cars do.


The switchpanel features a Whelen 90 watt power supply for the front, rear and mirror strobes, a Whelen PAP112 Airhorn/PA, and all necessary relais, fuses etc. to control the Whelen Edge lightbar fitted to the roof.


The switched al mounted in a special made to measure piece fitted to the tunnel.


Switchboard:


http://www.myimg.de/?img=switchboard39aa1.jpg


Switchespanel:


http://www.myimg.de/?img=DSC003352d6a9.jpg


Switchpanel + TA controller in dash:


http://www.myimg.de/?img=SWITCHES94a99.jpg
 
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code4services.com said:
Very nice C2! Is that an EV Mods. timer? If so, how do you like them?
Click to expand...

I really like the EVModules timer. It is simple to wire, has enough output for most uses, and has amoung the smallest footprints out there. I have had no issues with them at all. My own take-home has two, one in the console and one on the trunk tray. I have not had to jump start the car or otherwise had any battery issues.
 
C2Installs said:
I really like the EVModules timer. It is simple to wire, has enough output for most uses, and has amoung the smallest footprints out there. I have had no issues with them at all. My own take-home has two, one in the console and one on the trunk tray. I have not had to jump start the car or otherwise had any battery issues.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. The reasons you stated are the same reasons I found it appealing. I got one in the mail today and will sell it to my next up-fit and see how it preforms. I can't imagine we won't like them, it's pretty simple and I'm sure will work flawlessly.


C2,


Do you use voltage sense or ignition sense? I used to only feel comfortable using ignition , but have been installing newer Chargeguards voltage sensing without any issues or complaints.
 
For my applications I use the ignition sense. 30 minutes provides ample time to complete most tasks, so that's what it is set at. I can run all warning and communications components for 1/2 hour with engine off, car locked and secured. No worries on being able to re-start the car. Voltage sense makes more sense for parasitic draws, but my set-up is fairly simple overall and I even have the DC outlets on the timer, so no draws there.
 
Hey Jared....Well done. Looks great! Similar to what I use, but locally here in Tampa, I use AAMP Of America for all of our wiring, solenoids, relays, loom, etc. I also use the Install Bay out of Daytona Beach. However, like alot of Upfitters, I wont ever use the existing wiring from the factory. Since we do various agencies and all of them are wanting the same things, I will mount a fuse panel on the inside of the Havis console for most applications, since there are more than enough locations for both - and + in that panel. Additionally, we have a jig upstairs that we make all of our own harnesses. With the harnesses, I also run the strobe leads and whatever else I need so when I drill my hole in the firewall, its already loomed, taped tight and each color represents each component going into the vehicle....dash - purple, strobes - yellow, rear deck - green, etc! That way, all they need to do is find the colors if or should something happen!
 
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