Landing Zone Kits

CenTexPSE

CenTexPSE

Member
May 21, 2010
789
1
Covington, TX
I'd check with the flight company you normally use first what they suggest. The one in Ontario finally got fed up with all the "different ways" agencies set up LZ's- now they decide when they get on scene where to land. (flight officer makes the call)


If there is no open fields in the immediate area, they will ask for is a very cleared area on the road, at least 100x100 clear- still no markers laid down.
 
We are using something very similar. Ours has 5 heads,4 clear 1 amber, the clear mark the bountries of the landing zone and the amber marks the center. as for them standing out on LZs we turn off all lighting that is not needed. we try to do scene landings for the safety of the flight crew and us. We will land them a few hundred yards away, or at an LZ that has been picked and scouted prior...... but the lights are a great thing for the pilots, i would call them and see what they suggest.
 
NPS Ranger said:
+1 it should be up to the flight crews.
Green may not be the best choice with night vision goggles.
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Or in foliage, or around water. Most pilots would prefer that all those other blinkys be shut off. The better ones can tell the difference between the ground and a fire truck and figure out which one they should cop a squat on. Consult with your service provider, the better ones will actual come out and do a training for your people, which is good for you, and great for them, because they can tell you exactly how they want it done. The crews usually wont say it out loud, but after enough beer they'll tell you that their biggest problems is people trying to "help" but setting up LZs that are way too well lit. With GPS and CAD mapping, they don't need to see where they are going from miles away, let alone on approach - that's what they have landing lights, Nightsun search lights and FLIR for. The more light at the scene, the more glint and glare you get off of every scratch in the canopy and windows, and the harder it is to watch the instruments, or the ground.


On the other hand, you can mark the places where they DON"T want to land, like on a power line, or wire fence, treeline or any small vertical object that could impale the helo.


There was a slump between Nam and the Gulf Wars, but remember that the average EMS helo pilot has probably one-wheel-landed a Blackhawk on a mountainside helispot the size of a coffin lid during a brownout while taking fire. Hitting a Piggly Wiggly parking lot after a couple years of doing that ain't no thing. The ones that aren't mil probably flew for utility companies out to oil platforms at night during gales, or to deliver seismic charges to jungle exploration camps.


EMS ships have been crashing at a phenomenal rate over the last 2 years, but it usually hasn't been at arrival or departure from a scene
 
My department usually works with only 1 or 2 medevac flight organizations.


The main one we work with most of the time doesn't really have a preference on light color, they have just simply stated that they do not like strobes. The other says anything other than white lights are fine.


My department has purchased at least 6 of the LZ kits from the eflare company.


Each engine and service vehicle has a set, plus the Chief and Deputy Chief each have a set (I'm the Deputy Chief).


Both of the services we work with have had nothing but positive things to say about the eflare lights, and the second even bought themselves a set to show to other departments.


We use amber for the corners of the box and a blue for wind direction indication. We have one set that has red for the corners, but the pilots have reported they blend in too much with the trucks parked at the scene, especially with all of the red LED lighting on emergency vehicles these days.


In a pinch, anything works if it gets the job done, as long as it doesn't generate open combustion (road flares) or become a projectile when the rotor wash from the helo grabs it.


I prefer the eflare units, since they have a nice heavy rubber base, are fairly durable and can double as flares on the highway in a pinch.
 
I'll second talking with your provider on what exactly they want.


Maryland State Police and the other private MEdEvac companies request that we light it up with the trucks for them to locate on the way in. But once they are overhead we're required to shut off all lights and they'll use their NightSun and NVGs to pick exactly where they want to land.
 
NPS Ranger said:
Green may not be the best choice with night vision goggles.
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not true. green is actually very compliant with NVG. to the extent to where most military aircraft are now being retrofitted from red night vision lights to Green.
 
i have always used 4 handlights in the bottom of small traffic cones,the lights /cone ends point as a x pattern to the lz site but the light is not so bad it gives off aglow thru the cones,never had a problem in the 10 years i have done it that way,but like others said,depending on the flight pilot or dept everyone wantys it a certain way
 
TCO said:
i have always used 4 handlights in the bottom of small traffic cones,the lights /cone ends point as a x pattern to the lz site but the light is not so bad it gives off aglow thru the cones,never had a problem in the 10 years i have done it that way,but like others said,depending on the flight pilot or dept everyone wantys it a certain way
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I was going to post this. We work with 2 different medevac's in my area. Both don't want any lz kits. They want handlights in cones and a road flare, nothing else.


my dept spent a bunch of money buying a few lz kits and they are in a cabinet and have never been used
 
CenTexPSE said:
Ive been looking around for a landing zone kit for my dept. Im looking for one that has green beacons. The reason i want to use green is to make the LZ stand out from the red, blue,amber and white lights from the vehicles on scene.

I found these here, has any one had any experience with these?


http://www.tacticalleds.com/PF200-4-Pack-inc-4-ea/LED-Safety-Beacons/LED-Safety-Flares/-p8831591.html
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I've had a set of these (three Red in a yellow shell and one IR in an OD shell) for 4-5 years. I've used them for marking LZs, accidents, position location, etc. They're pretty durable and the 'loop' on the shell will fit a keychain carabiner. They have different flash patterns, including a low power steady burn and one that illuminates two LEDs for directional lighting. I've thrown these lights into place (like a frisbee) a couple of times for a position marker when I didn't want the light close to me (I work in a sometimes non-permissive tactical environ).


The Powerflare website shows them inside a traffic cone, something I'd like to see done to see if it lights up like their photo. Apparently you put it up inside the cone until it gets stuck.
 
5 cones.... 4 in the corners and 1 at the head wind if you are sure of it. lay the cones on the side due to rotor wash
 
We have 2 differnet Helicopter services that we use. Over the years we have used several different methods of marking LZ's. Once in a land far away, standard road flares were the option, and we all know the dangers with them.


Currently our SOP/SOG(whichever you prefer) is road cones marking the perimeter of the LZ in daylight hours, 4 corners + 1 for wind direction(inverted Y if you will). LZ kit during nighttime operations with all white emergency lights shut off on vehicles near the LZ( which should be the transport unit containing the victim and the vehicle that set up the LZ(the LZ coordinator) which is typically an engine company for us. All other vehicles are kept away from the LZ. Again 4 perimeter lights and 1 for wind direction on the ground.


Again this is OUR policy, and may not suit everyone. And of course all the usual things for an LZ, 100ft x 100ft box on clear firm prefably paved surface, clear approach and departure lines(ie no obstructions like overhead wires, large trees nearby, etc.).


We have 2 primary LZ kits for nightime LZ's


This is the older version:


http://www.circlekservice.com/specials/ ... pecial.pdf


These are the latest kit we have purchased:


http://www.turboflareusa.com/helicopter.htm


The video shows that rotor downwash doesn't affect them. Obviously in daylight you don't see how bright they are.


These have been recently used and the pilots reported favorably on them as they could see the strobe affect from distance, then the rotating pattern provided a good visual cue as they are on final from above.


Every Departments needs are different, this is what works for us.


Chris
 
Depends on the helicopter you deal with. All three of the life-flight organizations I have dealt with, not to mention the military helicopters I have utilized on SAR missions, all want the same thing:


1) Wait until flight crew calls you on pre-planned hailing frequency. Take the time to arrange the frequency via your dispatch when they launch the heli.


2) When asked, use a single patrol vehicle's lights for a short duration until pilot advises he/she has located your position.


3) Turn off ALL lights, and instruct all ground personnel to maintain light discipline.


4) Let the professional aviators do their thang.


Another big, big, BIG note: Make sure nobody decides to bust out their personal camera for a fun nightshot of the helicopter landing. One SAR mission last year nearly turned deadly when a volunteer decided to light off a big camera flash directly at the cockpit during the touchdown. The pilot had just rested the back part of his skids when he was completely blinded by the camera flash. His NVGs took a full five seconds to recover from the flash, the whole time he was blind. Needless to say, our SAR team had a lesson on playing nice with the helicopters. The pilot later said he thought the camera flash was from his tail rotor exploding against the ground and flaming out the engine. His pucker factor was pretty high.


I know it seems obvious, but take the 30 seconds to brief everybody around your LZ before the chopper lands. Lots of people suddenly want to help during the landing phase, and that usually entails flashing bright lights toward the helicopter. It's common courtesy to your flight crew to keep everybody on the ground dark.


My .02 cents. Exchange rate varies :)


TD
 
from my military days what i used was a single UV led light that clipped onto the top of a 9v battery.


that gotten thrown where i want the chopper and the pilot would usually just land on it
 
cory y said:
from my military days what i used was a single UV led light that clipped onto the top of a 9v battery.
that gotten thrown where i want the chopper and the pilot would usually just land on it
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"Hey, get this helo off my glint patch!!!!!"


I've duct-taped those lights under the rear bumper of suspect cars, they'd bounce enough light out that a surveillance aircraft could follow the car.
 
the way my fd was asked to set up lzs is that the beacons (weighted) be on steady and that ONLY the 1 that is on the side in which wind is coming from be blinking. we also lay a cone with "tip" pointing in direction wind is blowing.
 
Fenn said:
I was going to post this. We work with 2 different medevac's in my area. Both don't want any lz kits. They want handlights in cones and a road flare, nothing else.

my dept spent a bunch of money buying a few lz kits and they are in a cabinet and have never been used
Click to expand...
Would one of them be southstar?
 
our lifefight crews want the same idea, road cones with hand flash lights in them, they say its alot nicer on the night vision. it made putting a kit together very easy and relativity inexpensive
 
I use 4 of the Naval Emergency Strobes, the kind that the US Coast Guard use on their life preservers, they run on d cells. They work great for us because our pilots don't use night vision they just turn on the spotlight when they get close.
 
Cones, lights, strobes, etc just create a FOD hazard and are merely another distraction that aircrew have to avoid. The best thing you can do for the aircrew is to make sure that the landing area is clear of loose objects, personnel, onlookers, etc. A quick walkdown prior to helo arrival is plenty. Aircrew will determine a safe and appropriate location to land---there is no need to mark a "pad", especially if you aren't an aviator.


The only time I'd consider talking to the aircrew when not actually requested is if I see a hazard or obstruction that could be considered a safety of flight issue. Otherwise, wait for their request (wind information, talk-on to the LZ, etc.).


If aircrew use NVGs (night vision goggles) keep bright light to a minimum. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE WITH RED LIGHT! Any of you who have used NVGs will know what I'm talking about. Even dim red lights are very bright on NVGs.
 
cory y said:
not true. green is actually very compliant with NVG. to the extent to where most military aircraft are now being retrofitted from red night vision lights to Green.
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+1


kP
 
we use the collapsable cones that light up internally. we lay them on their side pointing to the middle of the LZ. at night we illuminate the LZ with headlights, no warning lights activated. we also have pre-planned landing zones.
 
The thing that most people forget is that the vast majority of the medevac choppers are piloted by former military chopper pilots. They've landed in much more difficult situations than the side of a road or highway and field. The best thing to do is NOT TO DO ANYTHING unless specifically rfequested by the aircrew. They are pretty damn good at finding a scene. Tell them. "There's a landing zone to the N/S/E/W of the scene." But there's really no need to "mark" the zone with cones, vehicles or even a midget with a lantern. Most choppers have plenty of lights between spot lights, landing lights or NVG's. Just do what the pilots request.


If you call for a chopper, do what the pilots say don't question it. They know what they are doing and what they need to do their jobs safely far more than you do. The very least you should do is do a quick FOD walk. There should be more than enough people to line up and walk 6 abreast and clear a spot aprox 100 by 100 from anything that can get sucked into an engine or become a big flying piece of shrapnel
 
Funny Story


Couple of years ago, we were working a MVA on I-26 late one night. Shut down the Interstate so no traffic, the idea was to land the bird on the highway, near an exit ramp. I was set up in an Engine and a Highway Patrol officer who was parked at the top of the exit ramp came down to talk. When the helo got overhead, I shut off all the lights on the Engine, and the officer started walking up the ramp to his car. The pilot had the skids maybe 5 or 6 feet off the ground. The officer had stuck his flashlight in his back pocket, and it got turned on. WITH the orange traffic directing cone on it. The pilot saw this wiggling orange light walking up the ramp, I guess he figured "this guy wants me to follow"


So the helo starts slowly moving up the ramp just a few feet off the ground. The cop kept semi-casually glancing over his shoulder, trying to act cool, but you could tell he was thinking "what the hell". Which is what I was thinking too. By the time he reached the top of the ramp the cop was almost running!!


I called the helo on the radio to see what he was doing, and we got him back down the hill to the hiway. I didn't know exactly what had transpired until the pilot and I talked later. Funny as hell.


That MVA was a truck that was part of a circus convoy. Hauling TIGERS. We were advised by dispatch while enroute, "use caution -- scene is not secure. Caller has advised LIVE TIGERS are wandering around" No joke. You never know what the next call will involve, eh?


Bob
 
If you decide to mark the LZ with flares (I know some depts. that do...), make sure you secure the flares down!! Otherwise, your MVA, etc. will suddenly be upgraded to multiple brush fires in the area.


Some pilots have also stated that during the day, it does help them locate the scene if you wet down the roadway. Not only does it help keep the dust down, but it provides an obvious contrast to the dry streets around and is highly visible.
 
We do cones for the day and flares for the night. They also request that our lights stay flashing on the engine. It may be ok for vacant lots and other city locations not to use cones, but in a large field, they need to know where to land.
 
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