LIFE Ambulance driver & patient killed (Wheelchair Van)

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
Sounds like the ambulette driver was driving too close/not paying attention. It is rare in my area to see a good private EMS crew. In fact I have never seen one. I would never ever trust my life or that of a family member with one of those guys. In my region, the good crews get municipal jobs. I feel especially bad for the patient on board who had no control over the situation.
 

Rofocowboy84

Member
May 20, 2010
1,161
Centre County, PA
charlie82 said:
Sounds like the ambulette driver was driving too close/not paying attention. It is rare in my area to see a good private EMS crew. In fact I have never seen one. I would never ever trust my life or that of a family member with one of those guys. In my region, the good crews get municipal jobs. I feel especially bad for the patient on board who had no control over the situation.

I worked private EMS for 3.5 years and there were a lot of us who weren't as horrible as you seem to think. Want to know why we didn't go to the 911 side? $$$ That's why, not because we couldn't, because we didn't want to. Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch in private EMS who are worthless, but not all of us are...
 

uniden278

Member
Oct 10, 2011
383
Winthrop, MA
Rofocowboy84 said:
I worked private EMS for 3.5 years and there were a lot of us who weren't as horrible as you seem to think. Want to know why we didn't go to the 911 side? $$$ That's why, not because we couldn't, because we didn't want to. Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch in private EMS who are worthless, but not all of us are...

I have also made a decent living in private EMS (5 years and counting) and have a job with a pretty flexible schedule that works for me just fine. Also, in the Boston area there are a number of these private companies, most of which have top notch employees, that pay extremely well. Not a lot of fire-based EMS systems to be had in these parts. Boston EMS is the only comparable EMS-only department (though they technically fall into the Police union, but that's another story), and its next to impossible to get hired by them.


Also, to blame the driver of this vehicle (we call them chair cars or chair vans in this area) without all the information being known about the incident is unfair. Why he failed to stop in time was either not apparent at the time the article was written, or not included. It is obvious that the article was written poorly but that's an argument for another day...
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
It is rare that I have seen quality crews in my area. I define quality as possessing multiple facets:


In appropriate uniform


Uniform clean and ironed


Shirt tucked in


Well kept hair


Care is exceptional


Rig is clean


Supplies are in order


Bed is made


Attention is paid to the patient at all times (talking, observing, adjusting comfort, alerting patient to bumps and such)


Driving is safe and prudent


Do not leave rigs parked in emergency spots for routine transfers, especially when picking up (HUGE PET PEEVE OF MINE, I bring all non-critical patients to the furthest spot possible to save the close spots for priority patients)


While the crews cannot control this: Rigs should be well maintained, free of scuffs, damage etc...


There are certianly 911 crews that do not meet standards, but in my observations, the rate is much lower in most areas in which I have worked. I have found very few private crews who consistently meet all of the above requirements. There are, however, many 911 crews who do. Certainly good and bad cases exist on both sides, but I think it is better on the 911 side. I have also not heard of private companies that are paying better than 911 services in my area? Perhaps that's just a Montgomery County thing.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
LightBars4Sale.com said:
not to mention the multi - colored hair - and facial piercings

I consider hair to be part of uniform, but yes. Combs are cheap!
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,971
Northwest Ohio
The reason this isn't in the line of duty death section is because it was a medi-van/ambulette/wheelchair van not an ambulance. In Ohio that person is trained in CPR and licensed as a taxi or limo driver basically. The vehicle is inspected by OMTB ( http://omtb.ohio.gov/Checklists/lettecheck.pdf ) . The ambulance company may run it, but it is by no means an EMS vehicle... Oddly enough in Ohio private ambulance are subject to inspection, muni ones aren't. I have noticed EMS crew quality varies significantly from service to serive, but haven't noticed a trend outside of appearance in private vs paid vs muni 3rd vs fire etc.


It's too bad someone in medical transportation died. Let's stop debating whether their shirt was tucked in at the time.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
JohnMarcson said:
The reason this isn't in the line of duty death section is because it was a medi-van/ambulette/wheelchair van not an ambulance. In Ohio that person is trained in CPR and licensed as a taxi or limo driver basically. The vehicle is inspected by OMTB ( http://omtb.ohio.gov/Checklists/lettecheck.pdf ) . The ambulance company may run it, but it is by no means an EMS vehicle... Oddly enough in Ohio private ambulance are subject to inspection, muni ones aren't. I have noticed EMS crew quality varies significantly from service to serive, but haven't noticed a trend outside of appearance in private vs paid vs muni 3rd vs fire etc.

It's too bad someone in medical transportation died. Let's stop debating whether their shirt was tucked in at the time.

John, I have to disagree with you here. I was commenting that I often see careless, unprofessional ambulette and transport EMTs/employees who drive their vehicles like they stole them. While this may not have been the case, it also MAY have been the case. It is important to note that if they are poor in appearance, that other areas are likely lacking too. People die, and that is said. I get it. What I do not get is people dying because some clown wants to do a job that a professional should be doing. The way the article described the lumber truck and its operation, the ambulette driver was either driving too close or not paying attention.
 
Sep 13, 2010
761
Holland, Michigan
charlie82 said:
Sounds like the ambulette driver was driving too close/not paying attention. It is rare in my area to see a good private EMS crew. In fact I have never seen one. I would never ever trust my life or that of a family member with one of those guys. In my region, the good crews get municipal jobs. I feel especially bad for the patient on board who had no control over the situation.

What happens when you go on vacation some where and something happens and you need a ambulance? Around here its all private ambulance companies. Just remember not everywhere you go has department run ambulance company. If you are in need you basically get who is closest, unless otherwise specified, but most pts who are priority 1s don't really care whos coming aslong as they are going to get cared for. I do feel bad for the pt aswell.
 

5309

Member
Jan 4, 2012
758
Central, Florida
charlie82 said:
It is rare that I have seen quality crews in my area. I define quality as possessing multiple facets:


There are certianly 911 crews that do not meet standards, but in my observations, the rate is much lower in most areas in which I have worked. I have found very few private crews who consistently meet all of the above requirements. There are, however, many 911 crews who do. Certainly good and bad cases exist on both sides, but I think it is better on the 911 side. I have also not heard of private companies that are paying better than 911 services in my area? Perhaps that's just a Montgomery County thing.

thats because they all jumped on the post 9/11 band wagon. want the fame and glory but dont care about anything else.

LightBars4Sale.com said:
not to mention the multi - colored hair - and facial piercings

yea but you know... That person might just happen to be the Best Darn EMT OR Paramedic there is. Shouldnt judge them by appearance.
 

theroofable

Member
May 23, 2010
1,379
New Jersey
charlie82 said:
Sounds like the ambulette driver was driving too close/not paying attention. It is rare in my area to see a good private EMS crew. In fact I have never seen one. I would never ever trust my life or that of a family member with one of those guys. In my region, the good crews get municipal jobs. I feel especially bad for the patient on board who had no control over the situation.
Must be your state, because regardless of the company, they were a certified EMT. It doesnt matter where you work, the training is the same. There is no private EMT cert or municipal cert. :duh:
 

FireEMSPolice

Member
May 21, 2010
3,429
Ohio
Actually, I am of the mind that EMS should be private, or at least a 3rd service. I often get sick of seeing firefighters go to EMT or Medic school for no other reason then to be a firefighter. I dont think firefighters should be forced to be EMS workers unless they want to. Its because of this reason I see some darn good private EMS workers. Its where their heart is.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
theroofable said:
Must be your state, because regardless of the company, they were a certified EMT. It doesnt matter where you work, the training is the same. There is no private EMT cert or municipal cert. :duh:

You have no idea how ems works. You may take the course but that does not make you a good EMT. All doctors have MDs or DOs does that mean they are all amazing? NO. In my area private companies run inter-facility NOT 911. In places where they do run 911, that is different, they tend to be better. If you want to see it, go sit outside a philly hospital. These guys are a bunch of hacks.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
FireEMSPolice said:
Actually, I am of the mind that EMS should be private, or at least a 3rd service. I often get sick of seeing firefighters go to EMT or Medic school for no other reason then to be a firefighter. I dont think firefighters should be forced to be EMS workers unless they want to. Its because of this reason I see some darn good private EMS workers. Its where their heart is.

Not all municipal EMS is fire based. My county is mostly strictly municipal EMS.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
5309 said:
thats because they all jumped on the post 9/11 band wagon. want the fame and glory but dont care about anything else.



yea but you know... That person might just happen to be the Best Darn EMT OR Paramedic there is. Shouldnt judge them by appearance.

Sorry, to be the best you have to look the part. Doctors and nurses in hospitals dont get to look this way, why should we. You can do all the skills you want, but if your patient does not trust you, you may as well be worthless.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
RBRONKEMA GHTFD said:
What happens when you go on vacation some where and something happens and you need a ambulance? Around here its all private ambulance companies. Just remember not everywhere you go has department run ambulance company. If you are in need you basically get who is closest, unless otherwise specified, but most pts who are priority 1s don't really care whos coming aslong as they are going to get cared for. I do feel bad for the pt aswell.

When I go on vacation and am in an accident, I will call 911 and get a 911 service. Private companies that do 911 are fine, in my observation. It is the services that are transport only that worry me. In the philly area, a transport only service will not be dispatched to a 911 call.
 

theroofable

Member
May 23, 2010
1,379
New Jersey
charlie82 said:
You have no idea how ems works. You may take the course but that does not make you a good EMT. All doctors have MDs or DOs does that mean they are all amazing? NO. In my area private companies run inter-facility NOT 911. In places where they do run 911, that is different, they tend to be better. If you want to see it, go sit outside a philly hospital. These guys are a bunch of hacks.

No huh? I guess im not an EMT, oh wait... So if private and municipal services have the same qualifications, what makes one better than the other? To me, they are both paid, and both are equally trained.


Dont judge everyone, judge your area, dont say private ambulance companies suck. Say they suck where you are. I dont say that municipal ambulance companies suck just because my town has a private one and there isnt a municipal ambulance. :nono:
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
theroofable said:
No huh? I guess im not an EMT, oh wait... So if private and municipal services have the same qualifications, what makes one better than the other? To me, they are both paid, and both are equally trained.

Dont judge everyone, judge your area, dont say private ambulance companies suck. Say they suck where you are. I dont say that municipal ambulance companies suck just because my town has a private one and there isnt a municipal ambulance. :nono:


Your logic is still flawed. Just because you are an EMT does nnot mean you are good at what you do. Most do most private transport only companies require additional training? Even with that, you need to actually be good not just have a certificate. You only become good with proper field experience for services that have some self respect. And sorry but the transport companies aaround me are the worst. They didnt even have AEDs until 2011 in most rigs. They don't dress the part and they drive like clowns.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
I will also rephrase. By private I mean interfacility and nursing home only. Not 911. So I guess there are technically private companies that run 911, not in my area though (except for non profit ambulance associations with municipal names)
 

5309

Member
Jan 4, 2012
758
Central, Florida
charlie82 said:
Sorry, to be the best you have to look the part. Doctors and nurses in hospitals dont get to look this way, why should we. You can do all the skills you want, but if your patient does not trust you, you may as well be worthless.

i disagree... You have to build the ra-pore with your patient to get them to trust you??


If your agency doesn't require you to have a hair dress code then it shouldnt matter. All agencies are different.


So if my agency want us to be clean shaven and squared away i am suppose to be better suited for the job than the medics and EMT's in the next county over who can have beards and goe-tees? Or wear there hair down than up in a pony tail?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bigassfireman

Member
May 23, 2010
823
U. S. of A. Ohio
5309 said:
i disagree... You have to build the ra-pore with your patient to get them to trust you??
If your agency doesn't require you to have a hair dress code then it shouldnt matter. All agencies are different.


So if my agency want us to be clean shaven and squared away i am suppose to be better suited for the job than the medics and EMT's in the next county over who can have beards and goe-tees? Or wear there hair down than up in a pony tail?

While I don't disagree with you, it is more about the majority of pt's ideals and beliefs and projecting a professional appearance to them. Society in general judges at first site and many folks will not feel nearly as confident in their care provider if said provider is sporting lip piercings, nose rings or even tattoos. It may not be right, but our society has made it so. With that being said, I doubt many, if any, pt's would give 2 shits about what you look like when they are truly dieing.
 

Klein

Member
May 22, 2010
966
Texas
charlie82 said:
I will also rephrase. By private I mean interfacility and nursing home only. Not 911. So I guess there are technically private companies that run 911, not in my area though (except for non profit ambulance associations with municipal names)

I work for a 911, non-fire, county based, non profit, EMS service. We run the 911 calls for the NW part of my county. No fire, no city, no transfers, just 911 calls. We have a city to the south with a FD/EMS system and the EMTs that are crap, are the ones that want to be a FF. I get that. I would hate to be forced to care for a patient when I want to fight fire But some of the transfer services we have are good. We actually have a transfer company that will mutual aid if we get busy. They use our medical director and same protocols. They are top notch. Most others in the city and county...well, you will be lucky to see both crew members wearing the same uniform with the patches on correctly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
Klein said:
I work for a 911, non-fire, county based, non profit, EMS service. We run the 911 calls for the NW part of my county. No fire, no city, no transfers, just 911 calls. We have a city to the south with a FD/EMS system and the EMTs that are crap, are the ones that want to be a FF. I get that. I would hate to be forced to care for a patient when I want to fight fire But some of the transfer services we have are good. We actually have a transfer company that will mutual aid if we get busy. They use our medical director and same protocols. They are top notch. Most others in the city and county...well, you will be lucky to see both crew members wearing the same uniform with the patches on correctly.

This is similar to what I do. In my county, EMS and Fire are separate. But both are municipal. Fire is volunteer (I do that too) and EMS is paid/volunteer. However, some of the towns have a contracted service (not AMR style) that only operates in that town. Not quite sure how it works.
 

charlie82

Member
May 21, 2010
353
PA / USA
5309 said:
i disagree... You have to build the ra-pore with your patient to get them to trust you??
If your agency doesn't require you to have a hair dress code then it shouldnt matter. All agencies are different.


So if my agency want us to be clean shaven and squared away i am suppose to be better suited for the job than the medics and EMT's in the next county over who can have beards and goe-tees? Or wear there hair down than up in a pony tail?


If services do not have appearance requirements, they should. It is disrespectful to be with a patient when you are 2 days out of a shave. This is a country where your appearance is important. When you go to an interview you dress nicely and clean yourself up. I treat every shift like an interview. Your appearance displays professionalism, which is why we have uniforms. If it did not matter what we looked like, we could all show up in flip flops and tank tops. Your patient needs to trust you, and part of that trust is your appearance, along with your skill and demeanor.
 

Bigassfireman

Member
May 23, 2010
823
U. S. of A. Ohio
charlie82 said:
If services do not have appearance requirements, they should. It is disrespectful to be with a patient when you are 2 days out of a shave
So this brings about another question. What about volunteers? If I take a call today, I haven't shaved since Wednesday morning, because I don't want to. I'm not going to stop and shave before I go on a call.
 

timlinson

New Member
Apr 11, 2011
513
North Dakota
Private services often hire those right right out of classes with their new EMT. Why? Because 99% of transfers are non-emergent, and take time to complete. This allows the EMT to practice their skills in a controlled environment in which there aren't emotions running high, etc... Now that being said, I can see how you think they suck. But, the experience gained, skills practiced daily (without all the stress), allows those EMTs to perfect their skills, which makes them great EMTs.


Sorry to say, but your service just sucks then. While I know some private company owners don't give two shits, you can't judge them all for the ones you've seen.


I work for a non-fire, county, paid service. We do all 911s, transfers, standbys, yet still have shitty EMTs. Most cases, I'd rather take a private service driver than most of my co-workers.


By the way, ND only requires valid HCP CPR and EVOC to drive an ambulance.


RIP driver and patient.
 

theroofable

Member
May 23, 2010
1,379
New Jersey
charlie82 said:
I will also rephrase. By private I mean interfacility and nursing home only. Not 911. So I guess there are technically private companies that run 911, not in my area though (except for non profit ambulance associations with municipal names)

Thats better. Now you understood what I am saying. Private companies that do 911. They have a contract with our town to provide EMS coverage. They also have a 911 center that handles the township, and does the dispatching too.
 

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