Light Bar Made in America! What does this mean Exactly?

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
I'm probably not going to Score many Brownie Points here, just sayin.. :nono:


I see a lot of people bashing China made products or the American made Knock-off's, such as emergency lighting & sirens, when in reality they have no clue and make themselves sound like morons in the end. :bonk:


I mean we as Americans like to PRIDE in ourselves for American Made products right?!? :yes:


Well what if the American Made Lightbar or Siren, contains ALL Parts from china? Is it now JUNK? :undecided:


Now the Reality of the subject, all the so called American Made Emergency Products you buy, i.e. Whelen, Fedsig, Code3 etc. . the Inner conglomerate of parts, LEDs, flashers, curcuit boards are made in China, Taiwan, etc. the item maybe put together aka (Manufactured) in the USA, but the inner parts are STILL from over seas.


I love hearing "I would never buy that Chinese Junk!!" But in reality you really are or have.... :duh:


I will use a few threads posted here on ELB as examples of American Made containing Overseas parts:


This thread covers Whelen & FEDSIG.


FYI: The truth about Whelen


This thread covers Code3.


http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/code-3-solex-anyone-else-seen-58846/index2.html


IMHO in reality your buying an "American made" product that is chock full of overseas parts. The reason is it's manufactured cheaper, with cheaper labor costs. Thus equals more profit for the American companies brand name attached product. in laymans terms; Its cheaper to make and we can sell it for top dollar, & you the consumer WILL PAY our TOP DOLLAR prices, for our Quality American Made products! So the REAL QUESTION is are you really buying American? :undecided:


I am in no way supporting all China made lighting, but mearly pointing out the UNPOPULAR facts...


This is not just limited to emergency lighting as it includes; electronics, sirens, clothing, furniture, vehicles, etc. :rolleyes:


Reality Sucks Sometimes.. :popcorn:


I understand this topic has been brought up time and time again, but it is worthy of repeating frequently. As "We would NEVER Buy that Chinese CRAP".... ;)
 
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CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
A special thank you to MESDA6 for providing the legal link, for clairity! Buy American Act — Requires that a product be manufactured in the U.S. of more than 50 percent U.S. parts to be considered Made in USA for government procurement purposes. So this means 50% would be the American aluminum frame for rigidness, mounting brackets & rubber feet, attachment screws & base etc.. The other overseas imported 50% would be lenses all inside electronics, LEDs etc. ..


So in essence you are STILL buying American Made Chinese stuff.. ;) :yes: :rolleyes:
 
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HILO

Member
May 20, 2010
2,781
Grand Prairie Texas
It has more to do with the quality of the product. Yes there are many things that are made with chinese parts yet put together in the USA. The issue is the knock offs that are made from the US spec products. Most of the US companies work very hard to ensure their levels of quality are met, while the chinese companies will run different batches of the product, the additional products will not be made with the same standards as the contract product. There are other US companies that do not care about standards of quality. It is these lesser companies that are the problem.
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
HILO said:
It has more to do with the quality of the product. Yes there are many things that are made with Chinese parts yet put together in the USA. The issue is the knock offs that are made from the US spec products. Most of the US companies work very hard to ensure their levels of quality are met, while the Chinese companies will run different batches of the product, the additional products will not be made with the same standards as the contract product. There are other US companies that do not care about standards of quality. It is these lesser companies that are the problem.

I agree to a point, but I think MY issue is the fact only 50% of the light bar being made in the USA & the inner guts are manufactured IN China, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc. and those guts being added to the bars here in the US makes them AMERICAN MADE. Then people have the nerve to bash the overseas items. You see the overseas lighting having and same look but marketed there.


Yes some are low quality, the cases warp in the sun or they use a slightly different bulb array, may be dimmer or same brightness or the light has a slight difference so as to not have copy right infringements.


The comment of build quality, My point is it's still made in china, Chinese designed reflectors, Chinese LEDs .... Another point one could use for argument is the Warranty, I guess.. :undecided:


Bottom Line is we all hear the same comment, "if it comes from china its shit", but in reality the inner guts of the American made light bars are still from CHINA, despite the contracted quality "its still from china" and yes I understand there are many products you can look at and see they are a different quality, but many look the same and act the same as ones sold by the American companies. Its obvious their using the same designs or products labeled under a different name as what is sold here for 1/2 the price, does the lower price mean they are not as good as the more expensive American sold model?


I would like to point out many have seen the American Made sirens, lights, control modules, LED bulbs stop working after a week or month of use. ;)


I'm not bashing our American Made lighting products, but merely pointing out the lighting, sirens & flashers, people swear by ARE Chinese Quality Made... Like it or Not, the fact remains the same. :rolleyes: :)


Some examples of Chinese Quality products below:


LED-Sunshade-Light-Visor-Light-Deck-Light-Warning-Light.jpg


thE6X0B8IZ.jpg


thVVDYBQZ1.jpg

 
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CrownVic97

Member
May 21, 2010
3,350
Hazen, ND
I can attest that some China products are good, others are not. The patrol trucks that I use in my mine security job has China LED bars. Our main patrol truck has the Opti-Range lightbar with halogen takedowns and alley lights, rear LED TA, and 10 amber LED warning modules.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/LED-65.jpg


The other truck that is our backup has a Vangaurd 5000 lightbar. All LED modules for TDs, Alleys, TA, and red/blue warning.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/LED_5005.jpg


I would MUCH, MUCH rather have the Vanguard lightbar over the Opti-Range. The LED scene lights are pretty bright. I know the halogens on the Opti-Range are more focused, but the reflectors are plastic and only chrome-coated (the left alley is almost all black now). The warning LEDs are pretty bright on the Opti-Range, but they can't hold against the Vanguard's warning power.


The only thing I've have grown to hate on the Opti-Range is the switchbox.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/COBO07-L.jpg


For some reason, the Vanguard's switchbox works like a champ (same friggin' thing too....go figure:rolleyes:!). Here's what goes on:


Left alley switch does not work anymore, yet the switch still lights up and the alley light I tested separately - works fine! It used to work when I first started.


Right alley is touchy once in a while, but another flick and presto, it works again so at least I still got that.


The switch to engage the rear TA is not getting enough current to light them fully. I have to thump the son of a whore sometimes to get the full power of the LED modules to activate. Works excellent if you turn both the TA and the takedown on at the same time :weird: .


If I had MY way, the trucks would have Fed Sig, Whelen, etc products on 'em, but I'd take that Vanguard 5000 over the Opti-Range anyday if I had those two choices.
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
CrownVic97 said:
I can attest that some China products are good, others are not. The patrol trucks that I use in my mine security job has China LED bars. Our main patrol truck has the Opti-Range lightbar with halogen takedowns and alley lights, rear LED TA, and 10 amber LED warning modules.
[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/LED-65.jpg


The other truck that is our backup has a Vangaurd 5000 lightbar. All LED modules for TDs, Alleys, TA, and red/blue warning.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/LED_5005.jpg


I would MUCH, MUCH rather have the Vanguard lightbar over the Opti-Range. The LED scene lights are pretty bright. I know the halogens on the Opti-Range are more focused, but the reflectors are plastic and only chrome-coated (the left alley is almost all black now). The warning LEDs are pretty bright on the Opti-Range, but they can't hold against the Vanguard's warning power.


The only thing I've have grown to hate on the Opti-Range is the switchbox.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/catalog/COBO07-L.jpg


For some reason, the Vanguard's switchbox works like a champ (same friggin' thing too....go figure:rolleyes:!). Here's what goes on:


Left alley switch does not work anymore, yet the switch still lights up and the alley light I tested separately - works fine! It used to work when I first started.


Right alley is touchy once in a while, but another flick and presto, it works again so at least I still got that.


The switch to engage the rear TA is not getting enough current to light them fully. I have to thump the son of a whore sometimes to get the full power of the LED modules to activate. Works excellent if you turn both the TA and the takedown on at the same time :weird: .


If I had MY way, the trucks would have Fed Sig, Whelen, etc products on 'em, but I'd take that Vanguard 5000 over the Opti-Range anyday if I had those two choices.

The point here is whelen and fedsig and all the main manufacturers their insides are made in china, and yes I agree not all Chinese stuff is the greatest.. but the Chinese do make some products that are equal to our American/ Chinese lightbars.


here is your opti lightbar, & vanguard the switches or wiring between the bar and the box may be the issue, maybe higher amp switches? the opti bar IMHO has no argument from me of the sheap looking low light output that many use as an example of "all" china junk.


Opti-bar:

 

CrownVic97

Member
May 21, 2010
3,350
Hazen, ND
I missed that part about innards made elsewhere in American bars, CodeMan. Whoops:eek:. Well, then I wish I could say that there's something American in these but there's not :crazy: .
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
CrownVic97 said:
I missed that part about innards made elsewhere in American bars, CodeMan. Whoops:eek:. Well, then I wish I could say that there's something American in these but there's not :crazy: .

My friend, you really didn't miss much, its just a fact no one really looks at... Its a misconception the average Joe would think I'm buying an American made light bar that has a 5yr warranty and made a dent in my bank account.. I sure am glad I didn't buy one of those imported lights.. ;)


(I say this in jest)


Besides everyone knows the American made models have a higher quality because an American opened the shipped from china box then unpacked & screwed the Chinese Product in place in the American made light bar. :thumbsup:


I'm really not ranting, at least I hope I don't sound like I am.. :eek: Just pointing out facts is all :D
 

CrownVic97

Member
May 21, 2010
3,350
Hazen, ND
Yeah, that's true, CodeMan. Pretty much how it is now.
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
All JDI products are assembled in America with American parts by Americans, and look at the quality.


Nuff said!
 
Dec 4, 2011
1,126
US NC
JazzDad said:
All JDI products are assembled in America with American parts by Americans, and look at the quality.

Nuff said!

I thought you had to move operations due to having so many work-related accidents. I thought permanent blindness, severe burns, and two cases of vaporization raised your insurance premiums to unheard of rates.
 

Turd Ferguson

Member
Jul 3, 2011
2,250
Sumner, Wa
firefighter7017 said:
I thought you had to move operations due to having so many work-related accidents. I thought permanent blindness, severe burns, and two cases of vaporization raised your insurance premiums to unheard of rates.

In defense of JDI, in one of the two vaporizations, that worker was warned well in advance not to stand that close to the prototype JDI toaster.
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
PJD642 said:
My only contribution to this thread will be to say I wish the OP had used more smileys in his post....

Yeah I went a little over board with them... But text can be taken many ways other than how its intended. Having witnessed & have had my own posts that started an arguement due to others taking what is typed out of context. Its easier to add a smiley to show the context the comment is made in.. (insert Smiley here) :p .
 

MESDA6

Member
Jun 2, 2010
920
Central IL and PHX
It really doesn't matter where it was made if the manufacturer is legitimately following ISO Manufacturing Standards.


When the US plant gets a container load of components from an overseas plant, there should be a compliance audit as well as other testing performed to insure compliance with the spec that was required by the contract. If it doesn't meet spec, the manufacturer either rejects it and sends it back, or destroys it if it's too costly to ship back. The problem that grows out of this, is that the overseas plants are corrupt in many of the countries, and for every legitimate product they are making for a US manufacturer, the are cranking out 4 or 5 knock-offs that look like the same product, but are of inferior quality and selling them to exporters and importers.


That's the short version of how the market gets flooded with inferior crap.
 

Turd Ferguson

Member
Jul 3, 2011
2,250
Sumner, Wa
MESDA6 said:
It really doesn't matter where it was made if the manufacturer is legitimately following ISO Manufacturing Standards.

When the US plant gets a container load of components from an overseas plant, there should be a compliance audit as well as other testing performed to insure compliance with the spec that was required by the contract. If it doesn't meet spec, the manufacturer either rejects it and sends it back, or destroys it if it's too costly to ship back. The problem that grows out of this, is that the overseas plants are corrupt in many of the countries, and for every legitimate product they are making for a US manufacturer, the are cranking out 4 or 5 knock-offs that look like the same product, but are of inferior quality and selling them to exporters and importers.


That's the short version of how the market gets flooded with inferior crap.

Well of course. They gotta do something with all those failed/returned parts, right?
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
I have to stand corrected, Whelen does make a lot of their products in the USA.


But in this day and age there is no Emergency equippment company that truly makes every product In America...NONE...period.


This video shows a lot of what whelen makes:

 

mcpd2025

Member
May 20, 2010
1,557
Maryland, USA
HILO said:
Epic.. I love it! Way off topic, but I have a Tundra... lots of people call it garbage cause its a "foreign truck". They bash me for not buying an "American truck". Sad thing is, in 2010 when I bought it, it had the most domestic content of any half ton pickup truck for sale in the US. Since 2007, the Tundra has been #1 or tied or #1 as having the most domestic content in the US. The rednecks think I should have bought a Mexican made Ford, Chevy or Dodge because its an "American" company. Can't fix stupid boys...


Back on topic again...
 

CodeMan

Member
Dec 27, 2012
543
Central Florida
mcpd2025 said:
Epic.. I love it! Way off topic, but I have a Tundra... lots of people call it garbage cause its a "foreign truck". They bash me for not buying an "American truck". Sad thing is, in 2010 when I bought it, it had the most domestic content of any half ton pickup truck for sale in the US. Since 2007, the Tundra has been #1 or tied or #1 as having the most domestic content in the US. The rednecks think I should have bought a Mexican made Ford, Chevy or Dodge because its an "American" company. Can't fix stupid boys...

Back on topic again...

Back in Nov 03 I purchased my first ever new car, the 04 Toyota Tundra SR5. Then 6months later received a take home car, well last week the Tundra just hit 70k on the odo, sticker says made in USA at the KY plant.. lol


04 tundra.jpg


04 tundra2.jpg


The leader in tech is china/japan/and is were the Super LED is made... (back on topic)
 

Turd Ferguson

Member
Jul 3, 2011
2,250
Sumner, Wa
Don't get me wrong, I like the fact they have jobs here, but at the end of the day, the profits, however large or small, are going out of this country. I just don't like money going out. But i do understand that paychecks for American workers means money here. Now if the Big 3 would get wise, we might have an economic rally.
 

mcpd2025

Member
May 20, 2010
1,557
Maryland, USA
SeattleSAR said:
Don't get me wrong, I like the fact they have jobs here, but at the end of the day, the profits, however large or small, are going out of this country. I just don't like money going out. But i do understand that paychecks for American workers means money here. Now if the Big 3 would get wise, we might have an economic rally.
Just to put some stuff in perspective, GM received around $50 BILLION in bailout money from the US government. They paid back or settled about half of that, leaving about $25 BILLION stolen from the US government. But, whatever minimal profits that GM has posted have gone to pay the top 1 or 2% of upper management... people that are already filthy rich.


Meanwhile, Toyota has paid hundreds of millions of dollars per year in import tariffs, sales tax, income tax, etc. Toyota has created jobs in their factories for American workers, Toyota has created construction jobs for the men and women who built the factories and upgraded the infrastructure around. Toyota is using more American subcontractors and parts suppliers, which in turn pays more American workers.


Yea, Toyota profits are leaving and going back to Japan, but Toyota is a publicly traded company. If you want a piece of the pie, buy stock. GM "profits" stay here... but what does that mean? Do you benefit from that money? Does the average line worker benefit from that money?


I just don't understand the "Pro American Owned" argument in todays age. Between tax breaks for GM and tariffs paid by Toyota, I would be willing to bet that Toyota creates more tax dollars in the US than GM.
 

Turd Ferguson

Member
Jul 3, 2011
2,250
Sumner, Wa
I guess it's just a longing for days gone by that, unfortunately, will probably never come again. Yes, GM pulled off legal embezzlement. It just sucks the stranglehold hold greed has on this nation.
 

mcpd2025

Member
May 20, 2010
1,557
Maryland, USA
SeattleSAR said:
I guess it's just a longing for days gone by that, unfortunately, will probably never come again. Yes, GM pulled off legal embezzlement. It just sucks the stranglehold hold greed has on this nation.

Corporate greed is unfortunate. My father grew up in a time when "Made in America" meant it was well engineered and hand assembled by American workers who had pride in the job they performed and built a long lasting product. Then management got involved and realized a couple "problems" with this model...


#1 If products last forever, they can only sell one. If they only last 3 years, they have repeat customers


#2 If you can use cheaper parts, you have a higher profit margin. Cheaper parts break easier and faster


I have a house built in 1964. This was built by Americans who were proud of their work, and it shows 50 years later. The house is solid... hell the boiler still works 50 years later! I'm not gonna change it til it leaks. It might not be very efficient, but it is solid and better built than anything I could buy today! Modern houses are cheap particle board with stinky chemicals and need constant upkeep. My 50 year old brick house is virtually maintenance free.
 

HILO

Member
May 20, 2010
2,781
Grand Prairie Texas
mcpd2025 said:
Just to put some stuff in perspective, GM received around $50 BILLION in bailout money from the US government. They paid back or settled about half of that, leaving about $25 BILLION stolen from the US government. But, whatever minimal profits that GM has posted have gone to pay the top 1 or 2% of upper management... people that are already filthy rich.

Meanwhile, Toyota has paid hundreds of millions of dollars per year in import tariffs, sales tax, income tax, etc. Toyota has created jobs in their factories for American workers, Toyota has created construction jobs for the men and women who built the factories and upgraded the infrastructure around. Toyota is using more American subcontractors and parts suppliers, which in turn pays more American workers.


Yea, Toyota profits are leaving and going back to Japan, but Toyota is a publicly traded company. If you want a piece of the pie, buy stock. GM "profits" stay here... but what does that mean? Do you benefit from that money? Does the average line worker benefit from that money?


I just don't understand the "Pro American Owned" argument in todays age. Between tax breaks for GM and tariffs paid by Toyota, I would be willing to bet that Toyota creates more tax dollars in the US than GM.

Uh...GM did not steal or not pay back $25 billion. The Gov sold off all the stocks they had when GM went public, and lost $10.5 billion by selling off fast and quick. The G got close to $40 billion back from GM. Without the Gov bail out, had GM gone under and closed, millions of people would have felt the loss. With the bail out, not you, me, or any of the tax paying public felt any effect. And in reality, had GM and Chrysler gone under, it would have cost tax payers more than $100 Billion with aid, welfare, social security, unemployment, loss of income tax money, loss of other taxes, and that is a rough estimate. So while the US Gov lost around $13 billion, they saved over $100 billion. And that, my friend, is not such a bad investment after all.


I live near a GM plant. And many of my customers work at that plant. The money they give me is earned from working at that GM plant. There are 4500 people employed at that plant. There are hundreds who worked on the construction crews that built the stamping plant addition last year. Another few hundred non GM people that pick up the trucks from the plant, load them on trailers, and move them to the non GM shipping lot across the highway. More non GM people earn money loading them on non GM trains, and trucks. Kerr Industries has some 30 more people working on the vehicles from the plant, as well as the truck drivers that transport the vehicles there and back. Today I noticed at the old Naval Air Station, 10 miles away from the plant, thousands of NBS full sized GM SUV's. There is a trailer where probably 20 people are working, plus more trucks to bring and take vehicles out. So more non GM people working, as well as the city of Dallas getting rent money for use of the property. All told, this GM plant alone probably generates 10,000 jobs either directly or a few steps removed, that are worked by people who live in the area, and spend their income here. And pay local sales tax, as well as income tax.


Toyota has a Tundra plant down in San Antonio. No tarrifs, and Toyota gets the same tax breaks from the local and state level that GM does in Arlington.
 

Skippy

Member
Jul 3, 2010
423
Florida, USA
Toyota has truck plants in the US because of the Chicken Tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax which puts a 25% tariff on importing light trucks.


Same reason our domestic Ford imports those transit connects with back seats, windows and seat belts so they can be taxed as cars and has them changed into delivery trucks once they're here.
 

mcpd2025

Member
May 20, 2010
1,557
Maryland, USA
HILO said:
Uh...GM did not steal or not pay back $25 billion. The Gov sold off all the stocks they had when GM went public, and lost $10.5 billion by selling off fast and quick. The G got close to $40 billion back from GM. Without the Gov bail out, had GM gone under and closed, millions of people would have felt the loss. With the bail out, not you, me, or any of the tax paying public felt any effect. And in reality, had GM and Chrysler gone under, it would have cost tax payers more than $100 Billion with aid, welfare, social security, unemployment, loss of income tax money, loss of other taxes, and that is a rough estimate. So while the US Gov lost around $13 billion, they saved over $100 billion. And that, my friend, is not such a bad investment after all.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've heard your argument before and I think it is flawed.


If GM stopped making vehicles, your argument seems to favor the theory that all the GM vehicle buyers would never purchase another vehicle again. That's like saying people that bought a Hudson car back in the 50's never bought another car after Hudson went out of business. The reality is that Hudson's former customers went out and bought a Ford/GM/Dodge or other alternative.


If GM had been allowed to go into bankruptcy, one of two things would most likely have happened;


#1 They would have renegotiated their debts and been forced to adopt better management processes. This would have cost the US taxpayers significantly less money... basically the cost of the courtroom and judge.


#2 They would have gone out of business and Ford/Dodge/Fiat/Toyota/Honda/Kia etc would have absorbed their market share. The GM line workers could have gone and worked for the competition and gotten a comparable job. Parts suppliers would till continue to supply parts to the other manufacturers, they wouldn't have been completely without jobs


Bottom line, the US government should not be in the business of propping up failing private businesses. GM failed due to poor management practices. If my father-in-law incorporates the same flawed business practice and is losing money, will Obama step in and prop up his business? Doubtful...


Consider that GM has 22,000 direct employees and received $49.5 BILLION in bailout. If each employee received an equal piece of that pie, they would have received $2.25 MILLION per employee as severance pay. Again, the other manufacturers would have picked up GM's market share and employed the parts suppliers, transporters, dealers, salesmen, etc etc.


Waste of money and setting the precedent that if you are a large enough company that is run poorly enough, the US government will waste taxpayers money digging your ass out of trouble.
 

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