Miami Beach Fire-Rescue Engine 1 Responding
- Thread starter firedude
- Start date
Didn't really look like they were responding to anything as much as driving around with the lights on tapping the manual button sometimes.
lafd55
Member
I always wonder if these touristy type places ever ask their police and fire to keep siren usage to a bare minimum.
Perhaps they realize that RL&S doesnt actually save significant amounts of time compared to the risks it places upon the responding personnel and motorists, so laying on the Q/Airhorns/Siren does not provide actual benefit.
I hate that the VFD here runs their siren the moment they leave the apron until they put the truck in park, no matter the time, conditions or location. It is wholly unneccessary
I hate that the VFD here runs their siren the moment they leave the apron until they put the truck in park, no matter the time, conditions or location. It is wholly unneccessary
Rofocowboy84
Member
Bullets said:
As far as I know, NJ is just like PA, if your lights are on, your siren must be on, or else you're technically not considered an emergency vehicle...
And I'm guessing you've never responded in any major urban area, because lights and sirens do help immensely...
lafd55
Member
People seem to move just fine for FDNY and a lot of the time they tape the manual and do not have a constant siren blare... I'm sure when they hit heavy traffic they lay on the hyper yelp and air horns...
Some department's require while running code that everything must be on from beginning to end. My guess it is liability thing.
Rofocowboy84 said:
How about Atlantic City, Newark, Jersey City, Perth Amboy or Elizabeth, how about Route 1&9 at rush hour, do those count as Urban? I know they are not that effective, people ignore them, or they just refuse to move. But i also refuse to push people into intersections at red lights like so many others do if i have no open lane
Bullets said:
What kind of job do you have that lets you respond code in so many different jurisdictions? Just because YOU refuse to do something doesn't make it the wrong thing to do, never mind the fact that sirens must be on by law in many areas. And just because you might have a certain experience, doesn't mean it's true all over and for everyone.
lafd55 said:
Their department SOP and city/state laws support their "attempt" at reduction of noise pollution. In a heavy urban area such as NYC the performance of sirens also changes due to the acoustics caused by the city environment.
For all the manual siren use their chiefs use, they might as well just turn it to wail/yelp and leave it there.
dusty said:
Ding. We have a winner.
My department has 3 "codes". Red, Yellow, Green. Green is return to station, so that's pretty obvious you ain't running lights. a Code Yellow response is dictated by type of call and/or request of the individual calling in, and is simply responding with no lights or siren. Code Red is our standard response, which is lights and siren.
My take?
I am operating either a 48,000 lb apparatus with 6 firefighters inside, or a 68,000 lb apparatus with 2 firefighters inside. If I am responding there is a necessity for either of these apparatus and the attendant personnel who man the apparatus, to arrive at the scene. As such, in compliance with state law, department policy, and my personal decision as the apparatus operator.... I'll have all my blinky lights on and I will be making noise.... sometimes even if a code yellow is requested against our standard response protocols... You don't tell me you had a car wreck with a bicyclist on a highway and expect me to actually go code yellow.
Cross streets I know from living in the area to have people that stop late or don't stop for the stopsigns? Heavy air horn, pattern change on the siren.
Cross streets with vehicles at them? Light air horn, pattern change.
Coming up to a controlled intersection? Pattern change, air horn varying if I have to take oncoming or if the opticom worked.
Guess what happens if you're running lights, no siren, and you get the perfect storm of a responding apparatus, a 2 way stop on a 4 way intersection, A civilian, and a blind corner? You now have an out of commission apparatus, a new incident to respond to, and a lawsuit you'll lose... all of which mean your choice to "run silent" now cost you most likely your position, the taxpayers the protection from that apparatus thats now out of commission, and the taxpayers the bill for all associated fees/judgements/medical costs.
Never mind the cost of life. The bumper on my engine protrudes far enough that if I was in a head on collision with a standard passenger car from ANY direction, I will be impinging with it onto the passenger compartment enough to impact passengers directly. I will do everything within my power to include responding more slowly if the terrain, traffic, or weather requires me to do so. One such example is having to respond in all wheel drive with chains on with my engine. I can only do 35 with chains. If I have to be using chains, even driving 35 MPH, I'll be running my siren on wail just because everyone else that SHOULD be chained up (or just staying home) won't be and all the warning I can get so they stop SLIDING when they try to pull over, means they won't ten point my purty Pierce.
I'll respond as quickly and safely as possible to emergency scenes. That means running my lights and sirens if I need to run "red".
Now do I quiet it down as possible at night with low traffic? Yes. I run the Q on manual, and wind it up as necessary. Thats the nice thing about Q's both electronic and mechanical. You can vary how loud you want to be more readily than compared to other siren models. Still, if the call calls for a "Red" response, I'm going to be using some sort of audible warning in combination with my lights.
kitn1mcc
Member
Miami Beach traffic can be heavy at times. at others not so much., i have seen they responding like this many times on my trips down there. there coverage area is not big per unit. also Miami beach is laid out kinda of like NYC. also the major roads are all 4 lanes
theolog
Member
ISU_Cyclone said:
My touristy place has fire captains who reason that if they have to be up, everyone has to be up.
Our supervisors (fire and police) will have our asses for not using sirens when responding. It's policy and state law.
dusty said:
We are on the same agencies, we have been there as resources from the NJ EMS Task Force. I agree about the not pushing people into traffic technique, I will not do it as the liability is now on me if they get hit. The only time I will do it is if I'm going to a direct Life Safety Incident (Structure Fire, Entrapment, CPR, Unresponsive, Drowning, Shooting/Stabbing, certain HazMat, Fights, Calls with weapons involved)
dusty said:
I work for a statewide agency
and i work for multiple agencies that provide EMS services to or through these areas.
You are 12740164% correct that my sirens and lights must be on together by law. I come to a red light and there are cars in front, i will shut everything down. If i push them into the intersection and they are struck, injured or killed, i as the emergency vehicle operator is liable for the accident. It is not worth my certification, life and livelyhood to push someone into an intersection to save a few seconds responding. Time and again studies show that the effectiveness of responding RL&S in suburban/urban areas saves less then 60 seconds compared to flow of traffic driving.
CPR survivability is a handfull of a PERCENT 2-3% maybe higher in some areas, 5-6%. Very few fires are entrapment, its is a property saving function. The actual number of calls that require true emergent response is minuscule compared to those calls that warrant it. Should i push people into an intersection, speed, lay on the airhorns, or otherwise operate in an unsafe manner? NJ law also states that Fire/EMS can not exceed the speed limit, even when responding to calls emergent.
And i am not claiming that my experience is universal, but rofocowboy challenged my experience and i was simply informing him of my experiance