Michigan - Light bar VS interior light setup

[Stimpy911]

I have been doing some searching and have not found an answer. I apologize in advance if I missed it in another thread. I am working on installing emergency lighting on my 2007 Silverado and I had a question about using a light bar vs not using a light bar.


I prefer to use a light bar so I will be purchasing a Pinnacle Mini LED and then increase my visibility with a few other LED light placements. However, I have seen a few first responder POV trucks that have 360 degree lighting using grill lights etc, and no light bar. Reading the Michigan Law it seems to me that you have to have a light bar to be legal. Is this true or are you also legal if u decide to outfit your truck with hide a way LED lights that provide 360 degree coverage?


Thanks

 

[ISU_Cyclone]

I think the more common term for no lightbar would be "interior lights" or "interior setup"

 

[Stimpy911]

I think the more common term for no lightbar would be "interior lights" or "interior setup"

haha thanks.

 

[jprleedy4680]

For all intents and purposes, as the law has been explained to me, an overhead is required. However, I know people who have successfully passed inspection with a 360 all-interior setup. I can only assume that out depends on where you're at and who you're dealing with. Some departments have an overhead requirement written into their SOG's.


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[billforbush]

There are at least two sections of the Motor vehicle Code that apply. By looking at both sections in context, I believe that there ia a distinction between Fire department-owned vehicles and privately owned vehicles of firefighters. The first refenec is in Section 257.2, where it defines authorized emergency vehicle:


257.2 (a) Vehicles of the fire department, police vehicles, ambulances, privately owned motor vehicles of volunteer or paid fire fighters, or volunteer members of an emergency rescue unit if authorized by the chief of an organized fire department, a county sheriff, or the director of the department of state police, or privately owned motor vehicles of volunteer or paid members of a life support agency licensed by the department of licensing and regulatory affairs if authorized by the life support agency.


The next section (257.698) refers back to section 2 with regard to POVs only:


257.698 (a) A police vehicle shall be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red or blue lights, for use in the performance of police duties.


( B) A fire vehicle or ambulance available for public use or for use of the United States, the state, or any unit of the state, whether publicly or privately owned, shall be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights and used as required for safety.


© An authorized emergency vehicle as defined in section 2 may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights for use when responding to an emergency call if when in use the flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights are mounted on the roof section of the vehicle, either as a permanent installation or by means of suction cups or magnets and are clearly visible in a 360 degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person operating lights under this subdivision at any time other than when responding to an emergency call is guilty of a misdemeanor.


Therefore, I would say that department vehicles must have 360 degree visibility but there is no mention of roof mounting in that section. Vehicles authorized in section 2 (POVs) however must have 360 degree visibility AND the lights must be mounted on the roof section of the vehicle, either as a permanent installation or by means of suction cups or magnets.


I would think that a "throw light" of some sort, coupled with effective interior (supplemental) lighting would be appropriate for POVs to meet the intent and the letter of the law.


Hope this helps ....


Bill

 

[Stimpy911]

Thanks Bill. It does help.

 

[fire1]

For all intents and purposes, as the law has been explained to me, an overhead is required. However, I know people who have successfully passed inspection with a 360 all-interior setup. I can only assume that out depends on where you're at and who you're dealing with. Some departments have an overhead requirement written into their SOG's.

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I agree with Bill. On a POV, you are not allowed to be a slick top. You must have a 360 light that can be seen for 500 feet under normal atmospheric conditions (no cheap walmart lights). Who ever inspected and passed them with a 360 all-interior setup, needs to read up on the law.

 

[Stimpy911]

I agree with Bill. On a POV, you are not allowed to be a slick top. You must have a 360 light that can be seen for 500 feet under normal atmospheric conditions (no cheap walmart lights). Who ever inspected and passed them with a 360 all-interior setup, needs to read up on the law.

I prefer to have a mini light bar for that reason. It just seems safer to me. Also going to add headlight and tail light flashers along with a couple grill lights when I have the extra money. I really like the Sound Off Pinnacle Mini Light bar. Great 360 degree coverage and have seen good reviews on it. Looks like I can buy it for under 250 bucks and that makes me pretty darn happy. lol

 

[jprleedy4680]

I agree with Bill. On a POV, you are not allowed to be a slick top. You must have a 360 light that can be seen for 500 feet under normal atmospheric conditions (no cheap walmart lights). Who ever inspected and passed them with a 360 all-interior setup, needs to read up on the law.

I agree 100%. I was actually mildly shocked when I heard it.


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[jprleedy4680]

I prefer to have a mini light bar for that reason. It just seems safer to me. Also going to add headlight and tail light flashers along with a couple grill lights when I have the extra money. I really like the Sound Off Pinnacle Mini Light bar. Great 360 degree coverage and have seen good reviews on it. Looks like I can buy it for under 250 bucks and that makes me pretty darn happy. lol

Pinnacle Mini is a great bar. I have one myself. Made right in MI, too.


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[backdraft51]

Don't an interior bar count. "D the lights must be mounted on the roof section of the vehicle, either as a permanent installation or by means of suction cups or magnets." A interior bar is mounted to the roof section of the vehicle. So is a stick if mounted in the back. As long as you have 360 degrees mounted on the roof section I'd say your legal. It does not say above or below the roof section. So my lights are mounted to the roof section. on the interior. To me that meets the law. just my $0.02.

 

[jprleedy4680]

Don't an interior bar count. "D the lights must be mounted on the roof section of the vehicle, either as a permanent installation or by means of suction cups or magnets." A interior bar is mounted to the roof section of the vehicle. So is a stick if mounted in the back. As long as you have 360 degrees mounted on the roof section I'd say your legal. It does not say above or below the roof section. So my lights are mounted to the roof section. on the interior. To me that meets the law. just my $0.02.

The law states a 360 arc. I think you'd need some lighting on the top of the rear passenger windows too. Interesting point none the less.:thumbup:


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[OTFD122]

I have talked with many fellow police officers about this issue and basically it comes down to the individual municipality and how much they care about this issue. I agree an exterior roof mounted light is superb, but "roof section" could be interpreted as interior roof mounted lights - and I have seen it done with 360 coverage. My dept is strict on exterior roof mounted, but you go up North into the mitten and you see 4 way flashers and a FireBeam on the dash for a POV setup. I would always cover your butt and go with a good mini bar or throw light JUST in case you got in an accident there would be no arguing yout were legal.

 

[Newton15]

I would recommend using some type of roof mounted light whether it be a throw light or mini bar. I run with a mini bar, i usually recommend them to anyone in the area who is a responder looking for a vehicle setup. Although I have seen alot of set ups which would be questionable at best, your best bet and maybe most cost effective is to utilize a mini bar. The mini bar will give the 360 coverage as stated without questioning how to interpret that law. Just my opinion

 

[Detroit VAP]

I have noticed that most ambulances and some fire department owned vehicles with interior or surface mounted lights. Several local cities seem to have no problem with them. Michigan Law requires a light that can be seen 360 degrees from the highest part of the vehicle, not lights inside that reach 360 degrees. If a person driving an emergency vehicle that does not have a roof mounted light gets in an accident, a good lawyer will get that emergency vehicle found at fault. A few years ago, a volunteer in Roscommon County was running with just a dash light and no siren, to a call. He struck a car head-on and killed the driver. While just having the dash light was not the only reason he was found guilty of manslaughter, it was a contributing factor. The only exception to not having a roof mounted light in the MIchigan Motor Vehicle Code, is for law enforcement vehicles that require a stealth appearance.

 

[Stimpy911]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I intend to follow the letter of the law. I do work as a 911 Dispatcher so I would be stupid not to. When I get it set up I will keep you all posted with pictures and a video if your lucky. lol

 

[mjMIff]

Roof... Sorry but this brings up another problem..

(5) The use or possession of flashing, oscillating, or rotating lights of any color is prohibited except as otherwise provided by law, or under the following circumstances:

So this part makes having any flashing oscillating or rotating lights of any color in Michigan illegal. UNLESS...


You are using a police car -

(a) A police vehicle shall be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red or blue lights, for use in the performance of police duties.

You are using a fire truck or ambulance -

( B) A fire vehicle or ambulance available for public use or for use of the United States, the state, or any unit of the state, whether publicly or privately owned, shall be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights and used as required for safety.

So those two vehicle classifications are now exempt from section five and there is no definition of where these lights can be mounted.


Now if you are using a POV -

© An authorized emergency vehicle as defined in section 2 may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights for use when responding to an emergency call if when in use the flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights are mounted on the roof section of the vehicle, either as a permanent installation or by means of suction cups or magnets and are clearly visible in a 360 degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person operating lights under this subdivision at any time other than when responding to an emergency call is guilty of a misdemeanor.

If you read this the way it was written, it does not give you the legal option to put lights "anywhere on your POV you want", it is saying they "are mounted on the roof section" - what wouldn't be considered a roof, a grill, licensee plate brackets?


Now section H states while using the term "authorized emergency vehicle" as defined in section 2 -

(h) An authorized emergency vehicle may display flashing, rotating, or oscillating white lights in conjunction with an authorized emergency light as prescribed in this section.

So it looks like the only thing that is legal in Michigan for POVs is roof mounted 360 lights and wigwags. If anyone can conjure up another opinion or has some others ideas, glad to hear them..

 

[squeeeg]

This has come up a couple times and I think the general consensus for the LETTER of the law is that you can only have a light bar on your roof. Technically that means no grill lights, wigwags, side warning lights or anything else. However depending on your local PD, SD and Troopers; as well as you dept SOG's you can probably get away with a lot. Heck go to Rosscommon for FF week you will see what some people put on their trucks.


But all said and done the one thing I would make sure is on my vehicle is a overhead lightbar

 

[jprleedy4680]

But the letter of the law does not stipulate that you shall have not more than one light mounted on the roof section, nor does it stipulate that you may not have other lights affixed to any other section of the vehicle. To me, the law seems to indicate that you must have, at a minimum, a roof-mounted 360 light (and a siren, of course).

 

[mjMIff]

But the letter of the law does not stipulate that you shall have not more than one light mounted on the roof section, nor does it stipulate that you may not have other lights affixed to any other section of the vehicle. To me, the law seems to indicate that you must have, at a minimum, a roof-mounted 360 light (and a siren, of course).

Part 5 makes these lights illegal, so part C makes them legal for POVs but also says "if when in use the flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights are mounted on the roof section of the vehicle".


Part B does not seem to apply as my POV is not for use by "the state, or any unit of the state", but only by me.


Part H makes white lights legal anywhere on a vehicle, apparently.


I have the stuff mounted all over my vehicle, so I am just playing devils advocate on how interesting this is. I assume this law was written during a time when most volly's responded only to the station.

 

[jprleedy4680]

Also I would reckon when the law was written auxiliary lighting wasn't a norm like it is now. Probably wasn't even thought of when writing the legislation.

 

[Fireguy273]

I understand that Law Enforcement gets some exceptions, but even without my lightbar (roof mounted) activated I have more than double what most (including MSP) Law Enforcement Slick Top vehicles possess...


I think this law should be revisited - Especially, like someone said above, with the changes in technology and available products it is easy to obtain 360 degree coverage without a roof mounted light.

 

[badge22]

I understand that Law Enforcement gets some exceptions, but even without my lightbar (roof mounted) activated I have more than double what most (including MSP) Law Enforcement Slick Top vehicles possess...

I think this law should be revisited - Especially, like someone said above, with the changes in technology and available products it is easy to obtain 360 degree coverage without a roof mounted light.

BAD IDEA. Trust me, you don't want them to reconsider anything. Without a doubt, POV's may end up with nothing. Trust me on this. Let a sleeping dog lie. As someone who was involved in the original bill and several updates told me, it was almost a disaster. For example, security asked for green and got amber, if they would have asked for amber, they would have probably gotten red. The revisiting would more than likely be done by people who don't have a clue.


I live in an area where many on call fire departments run nothing on most of their POV's and save a ton on insurance, or so they think and say. One of these days, the guys are going to kill someone blowing their horns and running their four-ways. Not many chiefs are completely against lights, they just don't recommend it. So the guy that puts a red light and a siren on his truck or car is called a "hot rod" and ridiculed. But the morons that drive stupid are okay.

 

[davidinmi]

Just reading this over and wondered, don't two negatives make a positive? Lol. Something to ponder....

 

[Andy L.]

Michigan State Police Traffic Services Section (AKA Motor Vehicle Code Gurus) translate "roof mounted" as being mounted to the exterior portion of the vehicle. Interior mount lights would be considered mounted on the "ceiling" of the vehicle, not the roof.


Unfortunately all equipment inspections are done in house now at each department with the Chief being responsible. Many department Chiefs don't know, don't care, don't inspect, whatever, etc which is why POV's are seen running all sorts of setups.


Letter of the law allows for red only mounted on the roof, visible 360 degrees. Technically additional lightheads aren't granted the way law is written - everything needs to be mounted to the roof. The white light in conjunction with red was added at a later date and is written to allow use by POV as long as the possess the required red lighting. No amber for POV's also.....