MTA Emergency Response

[Cam]

Maybe one of you New Yorkers can answer this. What is the deal with the lighting on the MTA Emergency Response vehicles? Their SUV seem to have two Whelen Edges or Freedoms with one being red and the other being amber. I see some that have the red in the front and some that have the amber in the front with the red in the rear. I have also seen a larger command type truck with amber body lights and a red mini-edge on the roof up front.


Just wondering

 

[NPS Ranger]

It would help if you had a picture to post. BUT... some railroad response vehicles have bogie wheels under the body they can lower, to drive on the train tracks. When on the tracks they may be required to display only flashing amber lights. This is an old picture from fdnytrucks.com but it gets the point across.

 

[Cam]

These are not any kind Hi-rail vehicle I'm talking about.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtheastorian/3707967613/

 

[Cam]

Here is another one but with the red lightbar in the rear.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/22214040@N08/4459710313/#/

 

[NPS Ranger]

Too much grant money, use it or lose it.

 

[aberfitchguy2472]

Too much grant money, use it or lose it.

That explains having two full sized lightbars on the vehicles, but why some with amber to the front and others with amber to the rear. The amber to the rear makes sense, but having it to the front on an emergency vehicle and red to the rear doesn't quite add up.

 

[JohnMarcson]

That explains having two full sized lightbars on the vehicles, but why some with amber to the front and others with amber to the rear. The amber to the rear makes sense, but having it to the front on an emergency vehicle and red to the rear doesn't quite add up.

Installer fail?

 

[Mike L.]

There was a program on the science channel or history or something called extreme fixes or something like that. Anyway the host was in philly and was assisting with their maintenance operations for their light rail / subway system. They had an MTA SUV that looked like the first one only it had an all red LED freedom. The reason was they respond code to alarms and emergencies. Several of the track was under a river and they had large pumps to keep the river from flooding the track, if the pumps failed they had 10 minutes before the track would start flooding possibly endangering people or trains.


The vehicle in your picture might be something similar. Also, the amber bar in front might be that that vehicle does not respond code3 but still requires the red lights for ID purposes (kinda like a police car that has amber lights for explorers / civilians).


two lightbars looks tacky though.

 

[wtbysix]

MTA is the worst runner organization. They blow money like it's going out of style and then complain they have no money and raise fares/ tolls.


They also drive GMC Yukons - guess Tahoes are not luxurious enough for them.

 

[UndercoverVLS]

They have NO emergency authority, so I couldn't give you an answer on the red to the front, nor have I seen any like that. The trucks I see all the time have the amber to the front and a mini bar in red to the rear. Also alot of trucks only have 4 Beacons; 2 up front and 2 in the rear.

 

[aberfitchguy2472]

They have NO emergency authority, so I couldn't give you an answer on the red to the front, nor have I seen any like that. The trucks I see all the time have the amber to the front and a mini bar in red to the rear. Also alot of trucks only have 4 Beacons; 2 up front and 2 in the rear.

If they have no emergency authority, why have red on them at all?


I guess the real answer is they are in NYC and most agencies do what they please. I think it was on here on one of the old boards that MTA Express buses displayed blue lights (don't remember if they were steady burn or flashing) to the front of the buses. Everytime I am in NYC I am amased at some of the things I see (not that I should be shocked by much anymore) and I'm not talking about the stupid people I mean lighting on some types of vehicles (and emergency lighting on vehicles that I would never think need to display said lighting).


Having emergency colors displayed on vehicles that have no authority just confuses people and it eventually causes people to have less reguard for the vehicles that are displaying lighting colors that command some sort of authority or right of way.

 

[911]

at a subway derailment a few years back, i seen a 2007 suburban with red 500 series linear grill lights,and mirrorbeam.......... respond code to the scene, and there werent any mta police geting out of it....

 

[UndercoverVLS]

Wow, seems like you have a lot of hatred towards NY and the people that live here lol. Why not just not go there then????


They have no emergency authority meaning they don't go lights and sirens but they certainly do have a purpose for the lights. I'm not sure what goes on in Indiana but I'm sure you know there's a lot of traffic in NYC. There are train incidents, bus breakdowns, etc. And these vehicles would be the ones alerting traffic of the situation up ahead. A lot better then having the Police to have to sit on it and waste manpower.


And I have never seen a bus displaying blue emergency lights on it.....


In no way am I defending the MTA, or what they do with their lights or their color combos, cause I could really care less what kind of lights some truck has on them. You just seem very bitter towards the whole situation for some reason...

 

[Truck26]

Ive seen plenty.. heres a shot.

 

[aberfitchguy2472]

No hatred or bitterness at all. I actually really enjoy NYC. I was merely pointing out that a lot of agencies in NYC do as they please in terms of emergency warning (they may have more of a handle on it now 9 years post 9/11). I don't really care what they do since it generally doesn't affect me, rather I was pointing out that throwing emergency colors on vehicles that have no emergency authority can make the public either more immune than they already are to warning equipment or it can confuse them (if it is possible to do that more). I completely understand them being at incidents or being there for manpower over the PD or FD. Being identifiable and being able to alert traffic is important, but amber can accomplish that as much as red can on the sid eof the road. It's all not really that important, I was merely just stating my opinion and making an observation.


I think you'd find if you knew me that I really don't have animosity towards very many people and that I am pretty easy to get along with.

 

[Truck26]

That is what I was talking about. I think that I have seen some videos on YouTube of them with flashing lights and not just steady burn. For some reason I think there were some that had single talons on the windshield somewhere, but I am probably wrong there.

Actually, you werent wrong...

 

[UndercoverVLS]

Yeah you do have a good point regarding confusing the already confused public with emergency lights. I havent seen buses with the blue lights, but now that I see the above pictures I do recall seeing one at a quick glance and saying why those blue lights, I thought maybe they went on when the passengers were boarding. Sorry if I seem to jump down your throat it just seemed like a bashing rather then a curiousity, my bad!


I will ask an MTA supervisor whats the deal with the blue lights on the buses so maybe we can get a true answer.


Also in regards to NYC and their own rules; From my experience, NYC operates almost like its own state inside of NYS. They follow the basic NYS laws but seem to make revisions to them, usually making them more strict. For example weapon laws, traffic rules, etc etc. It really is complicated to keep up with and understand in order to enforce them. But I guess a lot of it is a necessary evil in most cases.

 

[JohnMarcson]

Interesting....... I always thought the blue lights on buses were "hostage lights"... shows how little I am in a city big enough to have buses I guess... I wonder what they are really used for? Loading and unloading?

 

[kitn1mcc]

alot of folks LUMP the MTA all into one but the MTA has a Few Agency Under it. on of those being NYC Transit. the older Suburbans had 2 amber Super strobes on a Cross bar and 2 red Rotators in the Rear. i do belive it has something to do with marking the front and rear

 

[NPS Ranger]

I think it's just an offshoot of different color ID lights designating different routes. For example it's been used on the subway system for most of the last century, although recently disappearing since technology now allows huge colored backlit panels to ID the trains better:


http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/markerlights.html

 

[BigDogg795]

alot of folks LUMP the MTA all into one but the MTA has a Few Agency Under it. on of those being NYC Transit. the older Suburbans had 2 amber Super strobes on a Cross bar and 2 red Rotators in the Rear. i do belive it has something to do with marking the front and rear

This.


MTA is technically a multi state agency IIRC, whereas NYCTA (Surface and Transit) are actually city agencies.

 

[John]

The blue light buses are on the "MTA Select" routes. They skip some stops and ride in designated bus lanes. A vollie firefighter has been harassing anyone willing to listen (legislators, etc) about the MTA violating vehicle traffic laws with the lights. I think the talons were only used during the pilot program as I haven't seen them in a while but they still have the flashing blue roof lights.


Everyone in NYC has lights and sirens: ConEd (the power company) has a handful of emergency response vehicles with red. The violation tow trucks use red grill lights and wig wags when towing or just driving around. Senators, city council members, doctors, Salvation Army, MTA board members, chaplains, a couple thousand hatzolah members, buffs, impersonators, and a few thousand unmarked NYPD, FDNY, and EMS cars / trucks.

 

[UndercoverVLS]

I spoke to an MTA bus supervisor today and he said the lights are just to identify the "MTA select/express" buses. No other purpose really. Kinda odd if you ask me. Just proves abercrombie's validity in his argument of the public's immunity to emergency lights.

 

[aberfitchguy2472]

I spoke to an MTA bus supervisor today and he said the lights are just to identify the "MTA select/express" buses. No other purpose really. Kinda odd if you ask me. Just proves abercrombie's validity in his argument of the public's immunity to emergency lights.

So apparently residents in NYC can't identify the totally different paint scheme on these select buses, so they have to have lights on them...great thinking. I think if they can't pay attention to what bus they are about to get on, then the lights aren't going to help.


Next up, buses with red lights and sirens to signify high priority/super express service to certain locations in the city. First up, Times Square, next up Batter Park...hold on everyone we will be traveling qucikly and may have to stop suddenly because of a agressive cabbie or stupid pedestrian that steps out in front of us.

 

[911]

alittle off topic, but earlier today i went to brooklyn, and saw a yellow school bus, and it had a amber/red light stick mounted above the windshield and 2 flashes red surface mounted lightheads in the rear........

 

[Ben E.]

Aren't all school buses yellow with red/amber lights?

 

[NPS Ranger]

Not it they're a Hatzolah school bus! :lol:

 

[911]

not the normal school bus lights, in the front looked to be a ls12 or similar mounted on the exterior above the windshield, and was flashing as the bus was in motion, the rear had some kind of gen 1 led surface mount lights on the sides of the rear door... my first thought it could of been a bus belonging to a jewish school, as i have seen them with excessive lights before !!!

 

[911]

sorry to bring this back.... but last night i was driving in manhattan and in my mirror i see blue lights flashing...... so i go to look......... i finally seen a MTA City bus,with flashing blue leds....


it had 2 most likely whelen par36 in blue flashing the whole way down 1st ave........


also the tbta, which is part of the mta, was using a blue/red avenger to the front of a police car last nite on the verrazano bridge..... i seen them in the rear always, last nite was the first time ever i seen blue to the front for that agency !!!

 

[PC Comms]

My personal opinion for lighting is that there should be a nationwide standard for everyone. Red/Blue for police, red or red/white for fire and blue or blue/white for EMS. Green should indicate a command vehicle and amber should be for anything else not covered here. Solves the problem of covering your lights when going to a different color state and people would know exactly who is behind them when they see a light flashing. just my $0.02

 

[nerdly_dood]

I tend to think it would be simpler with every emergency vehicle using red and blue lights with blue and amber in back, including POVs, a green light or two to identify a command center, and amber for everything else meriting warning lights.


Someone mentioned school buses - they don't all have red and amber lights. Some still have only red lights. Also, some school buses I've seen in Virginia had normal halogen red/amber lights up top, but the swing-out stop sign on the left side had a pair of strobes.

 

[911]

what i meant about the school bus, it had EMERGENCY lights on it, not the normal setup

 

[NPS Ranger]

My personal opinion for lighting is that there should be a nationwide standard for everyone. Red/Blue for police, red or red/white for fire and blue or blue/white for EMS.

I tend to think it would be simpler with every emergency vehicle using red and blue lights with blue and amber in back, including POVs

And this is why a national standard will never happen, any more than a national standard badge shape or a national standard police uniform color. Everyone has a different opinion of what's "best."

 

[bfd740]

MTAPD has blue/red to the front, but a lot less blue than red. Typically they have 1 forward facing blue head in the lightbar and 1 of the lights in the grille is blue also.


Ever notice the suburbans with the two freedoms? I'm still trying to figure out what the red takedown lights on the rear bar facing forward are supposed to accomplish.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3458334994_524e8851d5.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4240606481_0e3c5ba03f.jpg

 

[Fast LT1]

My personal opinion for lighting is that there should be a nationwide standard for everyone. Red/Blue for police, red or red/white for fire and blue or blue/white for EMS. Green should indicate a command vehicle and amber should be for anything else not covered here. Solves the problem of covering your lights when going to a different color state and people would know exactly who is behind them when they see a light flashing. just my $0.02

I like how we do it, all vehicles that run Code 3 can run R/B, R/W, or Red. And anyone that isn't an Emergency vehicle has to use amber!

 

[Matted33]

Most of the NYCT trucks look like this now.


[Broken External Image]:http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/matted33/DSC_0063-4.jpg


[Broken External Image]:http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/matted33/DSC_0065-3.jpg


I have not seen any new trucks delivered with red lights in a while and it seems that new orders are coming in with FS Legend bars in all amber. The all amber Legends blow the Freedoms away. The emergency response trucks that have legends on them only have red and white reflective trim.

 

[911]

the driver of that yukon, is probably visiting a family member in methodist lol

 

[Matted33]

the driver of that yukon, is probably visiting a family member in methodist lol

No, I ran into the guy while taking photos. It belonged to a surface line dispatcher from 5th Av Depot. The guy was puzzled as to why I was taking photos of the truck.

 

[kitn1mcc]

i am surprised they are going federal whelen has had a strong hold on MTA they must not be using grant money then

 

[HFD eng1ine]

MTAPD has blue/red to the front, but a lot less blue than red. Typically they have 1 forward facing blue head in the lightbar and 1 of the lights in the grille is blue also.

Ever notice the suburbans with the two freedoms? I'm still trying to figure out what the red takedown lights on the rear bar facing forward are supposed to accomplish.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3458334994_524e8851d5.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4240606481_0e3c5ba03f.jpg

They probably order lots and lots of the same bar in the same layout but one amber and one red, then they just mount on to the front and one to the rear. They dont take the time cutomizing them so the back one doesnt have ftont facing brake lights etc etc...