Whelen Question on Sapphire + liberty/Justice IO board

[jessicarabbit]

So, I'm looking at using a Liberty WECAN IO board as a pseudo flasher. Being able to essentially control each lighthead seems like a good idea.

I do have a few questions. I see some older WECAN boards are 'dumb' boards and can't be programmed on the fly. When is the cutoff? How do I identify which boards are fully programmable and which ones are limited?

How many amps is each output on an IO board?

Is it negative switched or positive switched?

What is the response time of activating an input and lighting a corresponding output?

Is there a reason I wouldn't want to go with a newer IO board, like from a Justice?

Is there a different controller from a different lightbar I should be looking at for flexibility, cost, or any other reason?

 

[NoLimitSquads]

Why are you trying to use a lightbar I/o board as a flasher? Why not use an actual flasher? Something to consider, if you can find a WC expansion module, you can program them as an inner edge to get them to work with Sapphire. Ive never done it, but I know that its possible.

 

[jessicarabbit]

Why are you trying to use a lightbar I/o board as a flasher? Why not use an actual flasher? Something to consider, if you can find a WC expansion module, you can program them as an inner edge to get them to work with Sapphire. Ive never done it, but I know that its possible.

Which module? https://www.whelen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/14585.pdf ?

How does one 'program it as an inner edge'?

Everything I'm seeing shows it's not an option for Sapphire, just Carbide.

I'm seeing IO boards complete with wiring for ~$100. All the expansion modules I'm finding are $200+

 

[Sparky_911]

How many amps is each output on an IO board?

Whelen 500 heads run 1-2amps for a 6 led head, 2.5-3/halogen, .8-1.5/single LR11. Those are all common among standard/wecan bars.

Is it negative switched or positive switched?

Standard IO boards are negative switched. Not sure on wecan.

What is the response time of activating an input and lighting a corresponding output?

Should be the same as a standard switch. Maybe a .5 second delay if the bar is running full tilt and you change a function.

Is there a reason I wouldn't want to go with a newer IO board, like from a Justice?

The need to control each head on the fly...this for real world use or as a man cave/demo unit? Lotta options out there for flashers with multiple patterns.

Is there a different controller from a different lightbar I should be looking at for flexibility, cost, or any other reason?

A lot depends on what the purpose of the lights are. Feniex 4200mini is fairly inexpensive and reliable. The options go up to $$$$ from there.

 

[NoLimitSquads]

Which module? https://www.whelen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/14585.pdf ?

How does one 'program it as an inner edge'?

Everything I'm seeing shows it's not an option for Sapphire, just Carbide.

Thats the correct expansion module. It was never designed to work with sapphire, but there is a hack. This is a pic from an FB post of someone who has done it. But it should be noted that you would only be able to use these outputs for lightheads, the output signals are PWM, not constant on, since thats how the inneredges are controlled. But I would imagine that when using a lightbar I/O board, this will probably also be the case, but Im not positive on that.

 

[jessicarabbit]

Intended use is just custom lighting.

Example - dual use flashers/brake. Set input tied to brake signal to override existing flash pattern and turn red LEDs to the rear as solid. DUO color/white for scene illumination or flashing depending on scenario, etc.

Instead of having everything semi-random I can essentially use lightbar flash patterns for virtually any lighthead.

If it's negative switched that may put a kabosh on things.

 

[NoLimitSquads]

I know that you are trying to save a buck, but how much is your time worth? I think a Smart Logic flasher is really what you want. They can be found new for $200 or less, and you may be able to find a used one. It will be so much easier and more straightforward than trying to do something that a product wasn’t intended for. Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[jessicarabbit]

I know that you are trying to save a buck, but how much is your time worth? I think a Smart Logic flasher is really what you want. They can be found new for $200 or less, and you may be able to find a used one. It will be so much easier and more straightforward than trying to do something that a product wasn’t intended for. Thats just my 2 cents.

8 outlets isn't enough .... unfortunately.

I did confirm with Whelen that if I stick with a DUO board I should be good to go in terms of compatibility/programmability, since the first 2 generations of Liberty board could be an issue.

They also confirmed the negative switching, and 2.5A MAX per channel. I did not ask about PWM although I should have. PWM may only work on 'dumb' heads, not heads with controllers built in, even in steady burn.

I forgot to ask if any other IO boards were positive switching.

I could use the TA outputs as dedicated lines, but then I'd lose TA functions.. and I only have one Sapphire with TA that I'm saving for another project... which again points me right back to IO board because they have TA built in.

I guess I could add TA board to the unit that doesn't have one but I'm sure that'll be more expensive than buying another Sapphire, now that Sapphires are like 15 years old.

 

[NoLimitSquads]

Well, depending on what you are trying to do, the smart logic flasher outputs are rated at 5 amps each. Most lightheads are under 1a each, so you could put up to 4 lights on each output. Most builds that I do, I double up lights on outputs. Im not trying to talk you out of what you are doing though, just throwing some ideas out there.

Aren't the TA outputs also negative switching?

 

[Tango7]

You said 8 outlets isn't enough. How many are you looking at?

In my installation I was looking at a minimum of 10 heads - but they were dual Blue/Amber, and I wanted the ability to sync the blue, amber or both, so I had 20 heads (each head color = 1 output).

After much waffling and research (I looked at using an I/O board as well), as well as considering the possibility of having to use relays to reverse the output polarity, I went with a used Whelen Cantrol (IIRC it was around $350-400) which allows the control of 32 2a outputs, 2 low current (<.25a) and 8 high current (10a) outputs. Buy once, cry once.

I picked up a CANEM16 expansion module to control a Frankenbar ILB I built using 500 duo heads, a CANPort OBDII input board and another CANEM I'm installing for a rear bar that will serve as warning and TA.

While it doesn't have DVI (<sigh>), it can do pretty much anything I want it to, in blue, amber or both. And with CORE as the current product, they're dropping in price.