Rate the sirens

Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
I've been listening to sirens for over 40 years, and as I've been listening I've heard the good and the bad. So I ask you, which sirens sound best or worst to your ears? They can be mechanical or electronic, new or old, North American or foreign, but they must be emergency vehicle sirens. And you must rate them according to your own personal preference, not their 'effectiveness' as warning devices.


I'll start with my own 'ratings', although this is by no means an exhaustive list of everything I've ever heard.


Best sounding electronic sirens (in order of preference):

Low-pitched wail and yelp tones (in order of preference):
Federal PA15A series 1B, 1C, and 1D; PA20A series 2B, 2C and 2D. (love the slow rising wail tone)
Smith & Wesson Magnum series, early to mid 1970s (similar to above)
Signal Stat VI (yelp sounds like early PA15A and PA20A)
Federal PA15 and PA20 (classic Adam-12 tone)
North American Signal Siren Master (good wail tone)

High-pitched wail and yelp tones (in order of preference):
Silver face and early black face Federal PA300s (slow rising wail tone)
New Whelen 295 series (1990s to present)
Code 3 V-con and Mastercom series (nice windup on the wail tone)
Various Carson sirens (late 1980s to present)
Unitrol Omega series (sound somewhat like Carson sirens)


Best sounding mechanical sirens (in order of preference):
B&M Super Chief (the original 'growler' siren)
Federal 77 series (dual tone rotor/stator assembly)
Federal WL (standard pitch)


Worst sounding electronic sirens:
Federal PA15A series 1E, PA20A series 2E, PA20A series B, PA150, PA170, PA200, and PA1000 (all of these sirens have a high-pitched fast rising wail tone - they sound like girls screaming)
Unitrol 80K (fast rising wail tone - another screamer)
Australian 'Mad Max' siren (I don't know the brand, but the siren is so high-pitched it's almost a dog whistle)
Motorola T1300A (poor attempt at simulating the sound of a mechanical siren)
Federal eQ2b (wail sounds okay, but the yelp is terrible)
GE Power-Call/Siren (yelp sounds too choppy and robotic)


Worst sounding mechanical sirens:
High-pitched Federal 66, 28, W and X series sirens (16 ports in rotor/stator assembly. Thank goodness they didn't sell as well as the standard pitch versions)
Federal Q series (Too shrill sounding, and unbearably shrill at top speed)
 
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Henry455

Member
May 21, 2010
513
Houston, TX
I agree on your selections but would add the Heathkit GD-18 (550-1300 Hz) to the low pitch group and the Federal C-4,5 series to the Best sounding mechanical sirens.
 

Fast LT1

Member
May 24, 2010
2,018
Sedgwick County, KS
Unitroll 8k needs to be on that list!
 

Medicman695

Member
May 27, 2011
311
USA, MN
The Federal eQ2B sounds terrible like a cat dying or something, and they don't sound like a True Q
 

NCFD43

Member
Oct 18, 2010
534
Northeast Ohio
the BEST sound to my ears...


Federal Q2B


Whelen 295HF series wail


Grover 1510's


Nothing sounds better than a screaming Q and grovers.
 

tsquale

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 12, 2010
10,511
Minnesota, USA
Worst sounding mechanical sirens:
High-pitched Federal 66, 28, W and X series sirens (16 ports in rotor/stator assembly. Thank goodness they didn't sell as well as the standard pitch versions)


Federal Q series (Too shrill sounding, and unbearably shrill at top speed)

Finally someone else who dislikes the Federal Q's
 
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Black Hoe

Member
May 21, 2010
427
Long Island, NY
To add to your OPINION thread...


I would also put ANY current Unitrol model (Omega, 80K, Touchmaster) at the top of the Best Sounding High Pitched Electronic Siren list. I would also put the Federal Pulsator P660 / P280 on the top of the Best Sounding Mechanical Siren list.


On the best sounding Low Pitched Electronic Siren list, I would definitely add the old Whelen WS-227A and the old WS-295 to the list.
 
Jul 14, 2010
1,639
S.W. Ohio USA
Best modern electronic: Touchmaster


Worst modern electronic: Federal PA300


Vintage electronic: GE Powercall, Mars Clarion 2, Sireno Projector


Motorized: Federal doubletone, B&M Super Chief
 
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rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
Black Hoe said:
To add to your OPINION thread...

I would also put ANY current Unitrol model (Omega, 80K, Touchmaster) at the top of the Best Sounding High Pitched Electronic Siren list.

Agreed. Also the SS2000


Worst sounding: Code 3, esp the RLS
 
May 25, 2010
129
Los Angeles, CA
I agree with Wailer, though I am not clearly familiar with all the worst sirens. I hate high pitched electronic or mechanical sirens, and while I don't hate the Q2b, I sure agree that the pitch is too high. The very early Federal electronics sounded far better than what Federal offers today. The eQ2b should have reproduced the wail/yelp they had on their early low pitched sirens. The eQ2b yelp sounds absolutely terrible, like a sick or dying cow, but to me the wail sounds acceptable though not great. What were they thinking with the yelp? All the B & M sirens sound better with their growl, and high pitched electronics sound like screaming girls, i.e. effeminate if one can characterize a siren as such For horns, the best IMO are the Grover (stuttetone only), the Martin Horn 2297GM, and the Fiamm MC/2FI and MC/2FD, the latter of which can all operate continuously during response if desired.
 

SoloRTP

Member
May 22, 2011
144
NV, USA
Best electronic:


Anything from Unitrol.


In fact, the only NON-Unitrol electronic siren I have is the Code 3 unit custom made to fit the BMW RTP radio box.


CVPI = Unitrol Omega 9000


Suburban = Unitrol Touchmaster Delta


Kawasaki KZ1000Ps = Unitrol 80K


Over the years, I've have 80H and 80K sirens mounted in various vehicles, usually with the 480 control heads.


In the hangar I have a milk crate full of Unitrol 800s that I got way back when.
 

Retired1

Member
Jun 1, 2010
1,912
Woodward County, OK
"Australian 'Mad Max' siren (I don't know the brand, but the siren is so high-pitched it's almost a dog whistle)"


Anyone know what manufacturer(s) and model this/these is/are?
 

RDT Car 25

Member
May 22, 2010
364
Milford, CT
I may be :weird: :crazy: , but I like the Motorola T1300A and the GE Powercall.
 

VFVFCo.68

Member
Jun 15, 2010
64
Valley Forge, PA
i dont really have any worst siren categories but my fav mechanical is The Q, I see some people dont like it, but I effin love it. My fav electronic one is the Code 3 V-Con. I also like the powercalls but we dont use ours that often, and only 1 of our 8 apparatus has one.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
I agree that the best sounding mechanical sirens are: Super Chiefs, Siro-Drifts S8 and CS8 versions, Qs, Cs, 70s. These all have deep to medium tones except for the doubletones and the Qs higher pitch. I disagree that the high-pitched sirens: E-W series and 60 series are "bad". I like the high-pitched 28-H especially. They will move traffic. Two other motor sirens that are rarely mentioned need to be: The 8" CAM sirens and the 8" Hedberg sirens. Both were built to compete with B&Ms line, all three of which are 8", and originally with Federal C series before the Q was introduced. I've never seen either, but both Hedberg and B&M at one time built a larger siren to compete with the Federal Qs. Sireno's version of the Q, Model ED10 was one of the best sirens I ever had or used. Though hardly noticeable, the Sireno was only a fraction of an inch large than a Q, but it had a very good coasting clutch. I had one roof mounted on an Olds ambulance one time. One day sitting at a motorcycle race, I had backed the car slightly up a short ramp in the infield, with the car pointing nose down. There was a bit of a breeze from the south. I was standing a few yards away from the car on top of the ramp, and during a short break noticed a fluttering sound coming from the front of the ambulance. I walked down, and sure enough, the siren was "wind coasting" all by itself. I knew how well it coasted on a run, but never expected that!


As to electronics, I agree in general. I had an EQ2 for a short while. I liked the siren modes and the air horn was awesome. However, the yelp was absolutely pathetic.


Some of the best electronic sirens were the Federal Interceptors, Directors and early PA200s that could be "hung" between signals, getting that awesome "bark" and "chirp". What I don't like are the new-aged sirens that are all microprocessors. The wails sound backwards and the yelps are just squeals. Other sirens that I liked were the Unity SiTron, which was not that well known and didn't last all that long. They had a medium pitched wail, a very good yelp and hi-lo, and a "fast wail" that was awesome. Downside: they were not well-made and didn't hold up to busy siren use. I also liked the North American Siren-Master electronic series, and they are still in production. The "riot" function really gets attention, and there were two versions of the "riot" sound depending upon when the siren was built.


Another little known electronic siren that really packed a punch and wasn't all that expensive was the Vista Siren that was built by the Vista Corp. in Kansas City. It was a plain black box....nothing fancy. It was a 100-watt siren and had wail, yelp, hi-lo and manual. It had a deep-throated roar like I never heard, and had a much slower wail rate, yelp and hi-lo cycle than seen on most electronics. Sireno's Projector series was similar but not quite as deep-pitched.


Wailer: I noticed you don't like the high pitched sirens at all. I like some of those that I have mentioned...especially the one 28H that I used years ago. My favorite siren, however, has to be the Super Chief's deep-throated roar. In more than 50 years in EMS I have sat under my share of Qs and other loud sirens over the years. The B&M Super Chief is the only one that has ever really hurt my ears. If you ever get the chance to make it to a fire conference or muster in which B&M's owner, Kevin O'Connell puts on one of his demos....you'll really get a treat. In his demos he shows just how a Super Chief can put a Q to shame.....and he really does! 'Nuff said.
 

Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Skip Goulet said:
Wailer: I noticed you don't like the high pitched sirens at all.

Not true. I like the silver face and early black face Federal PA300s. They have a nice slow rising wail tone.


The high-pitched electronics that I absolutely hate with a passion are the 1970s E series Federal Directors and Interceptors, PA150, PA200, etc. They scream something awful. The 'in between tones' are kind of funny, but I can't stand the wail tone.

Skip Goulet said:
My favorite siren, however, has to be the Super Chief's deep-throated roar.

I like the Super Chief too. I've never heard one in person, but of all the recordings I've heard I got to like the growl. When the Super Chief is up to full speed it has a very reedy saxophone-like tone. When a Federal Q gets up to full speed it sounds very shrill and brassy like a trumpet being blown hard.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Wailer: I noticed that you're in Canada. Did Federal have a plant up your way that might have built some of the Inteceptors and Directors in Canada for Cananadian usage? I can't remember where the thread is located, but someone a few years back posted all the electronic siren sounds that he had available on a website. As you noted, some of them (even Federals) sounded awful. As I said before, I just don't like the newer breed of sirens that are built with microprocessors vs "real" amplifiers. I had a very nice SVP SA770 in one of my ambulances a few years back, and it was very nice. The one feature that I liked was the "alert" feature, which was a manual "whoop" sound basically. You probably wouldn't like it because it does have a bit of a screech to it; but it really moved traffic. Apparently someone else liked it, too, as it disappeared on us. I ended up replacing it with an older Director I happened to have on hand. The 770, by the way, had a very nice wail and yelp rate, compared to some of the stuff I've heard lately. As I said before, I guess it's just how one's ears are "tuned" as to which siren sounds someone likes or dislikes.


You said that you've never seen a Super Chief up close. Boy....are you missing something! If you ever get to look at one from the front, notice the scooped-out are on the front end. That's what gives the Super Chief its deep, penetrating tone. You had compared the Super Chief with a Q. The main difference between the two is size: a Q has a 10" diameter rotor, where the Super Chief, as with all three B&M current models, is 8". It's that whopper of a roar that the Super Chief produces that makes the difference. As I mentioned before, when Kevin O'Connell presents his demo symposium on emergency vehicle warning devices, he makes some specific comparisons between the Q and Super Chief. He actually makes two demos at once: the first is from inside the cab of a firetruck that has a Q mounted on it. He has a decibel meter, and from inside the cab runs the Q up and then shows the decibel reading, which is usually high. He then uses the same meter, but this time places his demo Super Chief as close to the actual mount location of the Q as possible. This time he has someone run the Super Chief up. He then shows them the decibel meter, and with the S.C., the reading is lower: that computes to much lower backdraft noise in the cab. Then he goes outside and has the two sirens side by side. He and the potential buyer (Fire Chief, etc.) then walk out 100'. First he has someone run up the Q and shows the decibel meter. He does the same with the Super Chief; but here's the big difference and the show-stopper. At 100' the scream of the Q can drown out the sound of the B&M at close range (say from 50-75'). But at the 100' mark, while the Q may put out more decibels, the Super Chief's deep pitch "overpowers" the Q at the further range. In actual usage, the Super Chief will rattle car glass at the 100' range and get attention long before someone hears the Q. Either way, Kevin makes a lot of sales that way.


One thing I neglected to mention previously is the phenomenon of the two new "mini" motordriven sirens that are now on the market that are supposed to give the Q and Super Chief runs for their money. Hardly! The two sirens are the California-built "Timberwolf" siren and the Michigan-built Screamin' Eagle. Both sirens physically resemble a Super Chief but on a much smaller scale. Both the Timberwolf and Eagles have 6" rotors (roughly the size of a Federal EG/WG siren...possibly slightly larger).


Both have dedicated siren motors: not the small black "heater" motor seen on the smaller Federal sirens: E/W class, VG, O and VL, along with other makers. They also have small coasting clutches that give each of the sirens a decent roll (but nothing to compare with a Q, B&M, C series or Doubletone). The Eagle well outrolls the T'wolf. The T'wolf's manufacturer once stated that he doesn't want a particularly long roll on his sirens as he thinks that might bother people. The Eagle is just the opposite, as it has a decent roll: on purpose. A couple of years ago the Odessa, TX Fire Dept. bought six new Horton Super Duty Type III ambulances, and all six were equipped with dual sirens: Whelen electronics and Eagle sirens mounted into the front bumper. Was I ever skeptical!!! I thought: "They'll never get through an intersection with those things"; but I was wrong! The Eagle has a decent volume and seems to be moving traffic quite well. I almost hate to say that I was impressed! But the firemen, themselves, really like them. They like them well enough that they recently mounted one on the Batt. Chief's wagon. Go figure. However, the downside of both sirens is the price. Both list for close to $3000! Kevin sells directly to fire departments and can get them into brand new Super Chiefs for much less. Actually a lot less: less than $2000 each when the dept. buys multiple units. The biggest downside for both of the small sirens is durability. The Eagle seems to be holding up well enough for OFD for the moment. Initially they had some problems with the clutches. Other than that they seem to be mechanically sound. Not so for the T'wolf. The company sold a large number when they first opened to the L.A. Fire Dept. As much as LAFD runs, those smaller sirens just don't hold up. I think these guys have spent more time in warranting their product than selling them! Now, while I've been reasonably satisfied with what I've seen with the Eagle, nothing but nothing will replace the sound output and durability of either the Super Chief or Q: hands down. RRRRRR! :p
 
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May 25, 2010
129
Los Angeles, CA
In the 1970s I used to visit B & M Siren on a regular basis. The owner of B & M was Richard (Dick) Miles. Either Dick’s grandfather or father founded B & M, I don’t quite recall, around 1910, making friction drive motorcycle sirens and electromechanical sirens. As a side note, Dick was an heir to Miles Pharmaceuticals, and I believe he held degrees in both engineering and mining geology. B & M consisted of Dick, a machinist or two, one of Dick’s sons, who mostly did machine work, and a very eccentric electronics technician who made the Stewart electronic siren for motorcycles.


B & M sirens were used throughout the Western U.S., especially in California. They were used on all LACo and LAFD heavy apparatus. You couldn’t see a Crown Firecoach equipped with any siren other than a B & M. Smaller departments also used B & M. Federals were rare. Chief’s vehicles used Super Chiefs, and CS8B or S8Bs were on apparatus. As a kid, at night, I could hear the Inglewood FD leave headquarters with 2 Crown pumpers, an ALF truck, and a chief, all vehicles equipped with B & M siren, from almost three miles away. It was an impressive sound.


B & M also manufactured an electronic siren, mostly for motorcycles, but probably used on some other vehicles. Originally designed by a motor officer named Stewart, the siren was built like an Abrams tank. It was very heavy duty, and highly resistant to shock and vibration, yet it was very compact. This was at a time when no one, including Federal made a robust cycle siren. Stewart originally made the sirens, and he and Miles were good friends. When Stewart died, Miles acquired the rights to the siren. The sirens I saw had wail only, or wail and yelp tones. Very unique, was the fact that some Stewart sirens were optionally capable of producing two simultaneous tones, using two 58 or 100 watt speakers. I’m not sure if the 100 watt type was actually made, but at least two sirens that used two 58 watt speakers were exported to Algeria and Sweden. I know that factually because Miles was not interested in export sales. He had me export both sirens. Any foreign inquiry was given to me.


Miles was a great guy, and he made great sirens. Kevin O’Connell carries on that tradition, making superior electromechanical sirens, that to my ear, sound better than a Q. The B & M web site shows early friction sirens for both cycles and vehicles. A photo section shows old EVs with B & M sirens.
 
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Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Skip Goulet said:
Wailer: I noticed that you're in Canada. Did Federal have a plant up your way that might have built some of the Inteceptors and Directors in Canada for Cananadian usage?

I don't know if there were any Federal electronic sirens made in Canada, but there was at least one model that was produced for the Canadian market. It was an FSC82, which was basically a rebranded PA150. I believe this particular model was available in the 1980s.

Skip Goulet said:
I can't remember where the thread is located, but someone a few years back posted all the electronic siren sounds that he had available on a website.

The only site I can remember was that of a Professional Car Society member... Scott Crittenden, maybe? I'm not sure. That definitely was a few years back.


I have my own website that is solely devoted to old Federal electronic sirens, and it has some sound files on it. Go to the link below if you want to check it out.


Old Federal Electronic Sirens

Skip Goulet said:
But at the 100' mark, while the Q may put out more decibels, the Super Chief's deep pitch "overpowers" the Q at the further range. In actual usage, the Super Chief will rattle car glass at the 100' range and get attention long before someone hears the Q. Either way, Kevin makes a lot of sales that way.

The reason why the Super Chief sounds 'louder' from a distance is that it runs at a lower pitch than the Q. The Super Chief has fewer ports in the rotor/stator assembly than the Q. Lower frequency sounds travel farther than high frequency sounds. The timbre of both sirens is also different. When a Q starts up, it goes 'AWWWWWWWWW'. When a Super Chief starts up, it goes 'RRRRRRRRRRRRR'.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Dr. Stouffer: Thanks for your history on B&M. I knew Dick Miles for manyyears. When I was in high school he gave our explorer post an old 6-volt S8 (no brake) for an emergency response vehicle we were supposed to get. That never happened, so our Advisor gave me the siren. My dad helped me mount it on a plywood board. We got a 6-volt car battery, and using the cable and footswitch that Dick sent with the siren, we were in business! I founded what would be known as our Siren Squad at my school. We took that old siren to the football games, running it up once when we made a 1st and 10, and then really romping on it if we scored! Gosh was that fun! The downside was that the siren had no brake. My senior year I was given an old 6-volt CAM siren. The CAMS were the same size as the Siro-Drift,but much higher pitched. It had a brake, so it took the B&M's place to please everyone. When I graduated I turned it over to my buddy who took over the squad, but after he graduated no one wanted it, so that was that. And eventually all such noise devices: horns, sirens, shotguns and canons were outlawed. They only allowed the victory bells.


I'm glad you got to see the original B&M plant on Pico! I always wanted to see the place, but I didn't get out to California until SoCal PCS put on a week-long meet in 2001. I had met Kevin in '99 at a PCS meet in PA. And wouldn't you know he'd be the first person I'd see once I got to LA? At the end of the week he put on an afternoon long siren symposium which dealt mostly with the history of B&M, and he had a good number of old sirens for display, along with three new B&Ms: one of each model. In 1998 I had gotten in contact with Kevin, as I had just learned that he had taken over B&M when Dick became seriously ill. You mentioned seeing Dick's son. The Miles' had no kids, but Kevin was as close to a son as Dick ever had; so that may have been who you saw: a much younger Kevin! Long story short, I had sent in an old S8B that I had run for years when I had an ambulance service. It was in bad need of repair. That was in '85 and I never saw it again. Repeated tries at contacting B&M got me nowhere and I eventually heard that Dick had died (this wasn't true). John Dorgan put me in touch with Kevin and I told him what had happened. I had described the siren to him as someone had painted the rotor a copper color, and Kevin had remembered seeing it. Anyway, he could never find it and promised to replace it. He did just that. At the end of his symposium he told the crowd about having heard from "this little guy in Texas", and then explained what had happened to my siren: apparently a former employee had made off with it. So he goes on to say that I had been patient, waiting since '98, but the wait was over. He then looks at me and says: "Get up here and get your damned siren!", laughing while he said that, and then handed me this very nice and newly chromed CS8B. Everyone later said that the look on my face was priceless! Anyway, as you said, Kevin is one good businesman.....and a good friend.


Wailer! I would bet that it was your website that I was on before, because the one I had been to had all sorts of electronic sounds, and if I remember correctly, a few of the motor sirens as well. You mentioned your Canadian PA150. I have a PA150 on a '74 GMC Type II ambulance that I wouldn't part with. You've noted before about the PA200s and some others being too high pitched. This PA150 is much deeper, and on the pair of PA100 speakers over the cab: LOUD! Just tapping the manual button results in a deep roar that hurts your ears and vibrates your brain! As you know, the 150 replaced the Director and the PA200 replaced the PA 150. I'll click on the link shortly and visit your site and see if it's the one I saw before!


Over the past couple of days in discussing sirens, I left out one that deserves mention: The Sterling series. The Sterling Siren Fire Alarm Co. of Rochester, NY, was owned for many years by American-LaFrance. For that reason, most ALF firetrucks had Sterling sirens: either their larger 30 series, and occasionally the smaller 20. The 30s had an 8" rotor and the 20s, 6". They called the Sterlings "Free Rolling" sirens, but they weren't true coasters. While they had a decent roll: much better than a 66G, for example, they just didn't roll all that long. And the 30s had a loud, mellow roar to them. Not quite as deep as a Super Chief, but close, but nowhere near as high pitched as the Q. Somewhere between the AWWWWW and the RRRRRR that you mentioned, Wailer! The most popular of the 30s was the 30 Sirenlite. This was an 8" siren with a big red flashing light, somewhat comparable to a C5L, perhaps. The smaller 20s were also available with either grille or lighted front end. I have a very nice totally restored 30 (grille model) and it is nice. I also have a very rough older 20 that has the front end missing, so it's hard to tell if it had a light or grille front. It's mechanically sound, but looks like crap!!


Dr. Stouffer: I forgot to mention: when we were at the PCS meet in 2001, Kevin was going to take everyone on a tour of his current location, but too many people signed up for it, hence the symposium. And he's been using that format ever since. If you haven't seen one, you need to. By the way, next Saturday (July 9) an Open House is being presented at old LA County Station 127...the one used as Station 51 during the Emergency! program. Squad 51 and the Ward-LaFrance Engine 51 (which has been totally restored) will be there "in person". So will Randy Mantooth and Mike Stoker. I would very much like to see those two rigs and meet the guys. I got to see my share of old Crowns when I was out there in 2002 for for SoCal's Summer Meet which includes their Code 3 run. SoCal president Lou Farah has a Crown and a '69 Stoner ambulance, and has since added Professional Ambulances original '77 hightop Cadillac ambulance. I had the pleasure of driving Lou's '69 Stoner in the Code 3 run! Awesome! The summer meet will be in two weeks on July 16. Try to make it.
 
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May 25, 2010
129
Los Angeles, CA
Skip, I first met Dick at the Pico location, and visited there several times, then later just east of downtown, in the Skid Row area where he moved. The Pico location was larger as I recall, and in a better area. I didn't like having to park around there, never knowing if I would lose my tires while at B & M. Did you know about the Stewart electronic sirens? The guy who built hem was named "Doc" (never go his real name) and I think he finally went to prison for attempted murder. This was 3rd hand info, from the guy (a friend) who originally sold the hi-lo horns to LAFD and LACoFD. At any rate, "Doc" was a very unusual character who lived at B & M, having a walled off sleeping area at both locations as I recall.


One big discrepancy between my version of Dick and yours is children. I was told he had 2 sons, Jimmy who worked at B & M, and a second son who was an architect. He periodically mentioned the architect as did Jimmy, and Jimmy never said anything about not being his son. I think (this is almost 40 years ago) when I first visited B & M, Dick introduced Jimmy as his younger son. I also seem to recall that Jimmy was interested in landscape architecture, and that either in the very late 70's or early 80's, Jimmy left the business to go into landscaping. If Kevin said that Dick had no children, this is quite puzzling, but it partially explains why one or both "sons" never took over the business. I had assumed that neither wanted B & M. I think that after 1981 I didn't again see Dick, as I went to work for Hughes Aircraft as an emergency management specialist, forgetting about lights and sirens for quite a while.


As for the open house at LACoFD Stn 127, I was the one who posted the info about the event under Industry Events on this site. I will be there as I am a vol. photographer with the dep't. I imagine Kevin might show up, but I might not know him, since I met him many years ago, and only once.


Where is the SoCal meet you mentioned? Thanks for your info, Skip.
 
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May 27, 2010
52
Beeville, TX
Best electronic: PA15, PA20, PA200, PA300 first gen. silver and black, Whelen WS series and 295 series old and new, SVP SA series, Code 3 V-Con


Piece of junk: Code-3 RLS, one got put in our new brush truck last year and it has the worst sounding wail and yelp I've ever heard.


Mechanical: Federal, Mars, Sireno, well any kind of mechanical siren is cool in my book


This is a cool siren BTW, never heard of the Magna-Pulse tone before until I found this:

 
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Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Skip Goulet said:
You've noted before about the PA200s and some others being too high pitched. This PA150 is much deeper, and on the pair of PA100 speakers over the cab: LOUD! Just tapping the manual button results in a deep roar that hurts your ears and vibrates your brain! As you know, the 150 replaced the Director and the PA200 replaced the PA 150. I'll click on the link shortly and visit your site and see if it's the one I saw before!

The PA15A series 1E (1970s), PA20A series 2E (1970s), PA20A series B (mid 1980s), PA150 (1980s), PA170 (1980s), PA200 (mid 1970s to end of 1980s), and PA1000 (mid 1970s to early 1980s) all have the same siren oscillator circuit and are designed to produce fast rising slow falling high-pitched wail and yelp tones.


If your PA150 sounds 'deeper' than a PA200, it's probably worn out. Some electronic sirens lose their pitch over time, and someone told me this is because the capacitors can't store a full charge when they get old and worn out.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Dr. Stouffer, Thanks for more on B&M history. I've never heard a word about these two sons in all the years I knew Dick (1960-on). So it was no surprise when Kevin told me that the Miles' had no kids and that he was as close to a son as the Miles ever had. I knew that Kevin worked for them a lot of years aside from other jobs he had. He took over the company when Dick came down with Alzheimer's and ended up with B&M in 1998. Dick passed away in 2001. The Summer Meet is Sat. July 16. If you're planning on putting a firetruck, ambulance or rescue in the Code 3, the staging area is at Rocky's Cafe at Whiteman Airport in Pacoima at 8:30. Otherwise, the actual meet occurs at Hansen Dam Complex which is located at Foothill Blvd. and I-210. If you can find a spot to watch the Code 3 run....it's worth the effort. As I may have mentioned, I got to drive Lou Farah's '69 Stoner hightop Suburban ambulance in the Code 3 run in 2002. Neat! BTW, what is your doctorate in: PhD, M.D.?


How about some infor on that Stewart electronic siren? Never heard of it. I had heard that B&M had produced an electronic siren, but haven't seen one. Kevin had almost one of everything B&M ever built at the 2001 meet, except for some that were simply prototypes.


Wailer: Thanks for the updated info on the PA150. This is the first one I've ever had or used. I'm not sure of the age of this siren, though, as it was put in the truck when the Taloga F.D. traded it in. It had had a North American originally. I'm not sure if the 150 was just something they had around and used it to replace the N.A. or if they bought it to replace the N.A. I won't argue the circuitry with you, since you know far more about that aspect than I do.
 
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Black Hoe

Member
May 21, 2010
427
Long Island, NY
Correct. The "updated" SP Mark 7 was the nail in the coffin for the company. It sounded absolutely horrible compared to the older SP Siren models. The company could not continue to run without the big NYPD contract.
 

CHIEFOPS

Member
Jan 24, 2011
1,532
NYC
I never understood why they couldn't replicate the tones of the original model with the new digital circuitry.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Well, I like the small size of that siren; but as I mentioned in an earlier post, all the newer-generation sirens, mostly beginning with Federal's PA300 and some others, all have microprocessors rather than a "real" (transistors, resistors, capacitors,etc.) amplifier. The wails sound terrible and the yelp isn't much better. Not much they could do to hurt the hi-lo or phaser, though. Electronic-wise, nothing beats the original Interceptors and Directors. While the Director had been considered Federal's "economy" siren for a long time, they were really under-rated, as they were much more versatile than a lot of people reaalized. They could take a lot of physical punishment and go on working. One neat configuration that I saw in the late '70s was on a brand new Type II Dodge ambulance that went to Metropolitan Ambulance of Amarillo for their office in Canyon, TX. This unit had three CP100 speakers over the cab powered by a Director. Ouch.....was that ever loud.


Another extremely loud Director was one I bought in 1974 at a ham radio swapfest. Got it and the MM24 speaker for $40. I used it on a '67 Chevy stationwagon ambulance that we had in our standby ambulance service; and even under the hood, that little critter was loud! But that's not the best part. Not long after I put the Director on the Chevy I received a call from the owner of AID Ambulance in Lubbock. He wanted to "borrow" a siren and speaker from me to go on a then-new '74 Dodge Maxi-Van ambulance they were putting together. I let them have the Director and underhood speaker. The speaker went on the front center of the roof; and it was flanked by three DoRay lollipop lights on each side of the speaker plus a Federal Model 14 beacon just behind the speaker. AID's office was about 1 1/2 miles from where I lived, but whenever they took off on a hot run in that Dodge, I could hear them when they pulled out of their driveway. Never figured that a "economy" siren could be so loud. Another siren that was a copy of the Director was a small-package siren known as the Trooper siren. It was built by a Ft. Worth co. called 'Lectric Lites. At the time they were a small, independent co. originally started in Lubbock, but were later bought out by the Code 3 people. The Trooper looked like a Director and utilized the same circuitry. But they came in a much smaller cabinet. Not quite as small as the Mark mentioned in this discussion, but small and loud.


I do a bit of First Response in my part of the county, and to that end currently have a small remote-mount mini siren in my car. I have a small car, so the amp. is under the seat and the control head is down in the console. Works out nice. But like some of these other sirens that have been mentioned, it is microprocessor-based and sounds like crap on wail. The other tones are reasonable, except for "manual", which is a joke. When you hit the manual button, you get a quick "burp", like bumping the manual button on other sirens. You don't get a full rise and fall. And before I forget, this siren is marketed by Speedtech Lights in Richardson, TX, and is foreign made. But price is reasonable: $119. And it puts out 150 watts. Speedtech also offers a nice line of inside and outside LED lights, including full size and minisized lightbars. I would be wary, however, of their workmanship. I have heard friends who use their products complain about the lights or sirens not holding up to rigorous use. Like anything else, some things don't hold up, but they have a decent warranty, and they offer good discounts on their refurbished items, which come and go. I have one of their LED dashlights that is a refurb, and it cost $40. I've been happy with it.
 

Wailer

Member
May 24, 2010
2,290
Canada
Skip Goulet said:
Never figured that a "economy" siren could be so loud.

If you're thinking of the brown face Director, there were three versions of that siren (according to features and sound).


1) PA15 (early to mid 1960s): wail, yelp, and alert tones, low pitched wail and yelp tones, operates at 75 watts (actually more like 45 watts) with one speaker or 100 watts with two speakers.


2) PA15A series 1B, 1C, and 1D (late 1960s): wail and yelp tones only, low-pitched wail and yelp tones, operates at 58 watts with one speaker or 100 watts with two speakers.


3) PA15A series 1E: (1970s) wail and yelp tones only, high-pitched wail and yelp tones, operates at 58 watts with one speaker or 100 watts with two speakers.


When I think of the high-pitched 1E series Director of the 1970s, it doesn't sound a whole lot different than most of the electronic sirens that are in production today.


The 1960s Directors, on the other hand, don't sound anything like the sirens we hear nowadays. They have much deeper lower-pitched tones.
 

Skip Goulet

Member
Feb 23, 2011
4,241
Midland, TX
Hey Wailer: Yeah, most of the Directors that I've seen and used were the brown-faced, with the Intercetpors always blue. Even that little Trooper siren I mention above which copied the Director inside and out was brown-faced. I've never really been able to keep up with the variouis series they came out with the Interceptors and Directors; but I would agree with you that there are some that I liked better than others. My first-ever Director was an original PA15 that still had the "Alert" function. As I'm sure you know, the Alert was removed from both the Interceptor and Director, and replaced by the Hi-Lo on the Intercetpor, and eliminating a third sound on the Directors. What I liked about this particular Director was that you could "hang" the selector switch slightly off of wail and it would give a funny sound: a long monotone sound followed by a short drop. You could also hang it between wail and yelp to get the funky chirp. With the late Interceptors and early PA200s you could also hang it between yelp and hi-lo to get the famous "bark". The Powercall Siren Co. that is now based in VA has a sound on their electronic sirens that they call "6-Adam". That is the chirp sound I have described. They also have the famous Powercall sound, along with a terrible-sounding wail and a reasonable yelp.
 

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