So I didn't know where else to post this so I'm dropping my thoughts here. It would be great if all the older lightbars were being reproduced again so it wouldn't be so hard finding needed parts! When code 3 still made the XL lightbar, I was told they couldn't do the cutouts in the lenses anymore because the machine broke and it wasn't cost effective to fix it. Now it sounds like you can't even get the XL lightbar new nowadays. Other lightbars have come and gone like the whelen advantage and mars bars just to name a few. Obviously for police and fire depts, they have nearly all switched to LED bars but for those of us restoring emergency vehicles or simply collecting... It would be nice if a company existed that produced all the old style lightbars again! When it comes down to it I'm sure it would be very costly to undertake this but still... Having accurate equipment is huge.
Thoughts on remaking old lightbars
- Thread starter Mark1710
- Start date
If I recall correctly, several years ago member nydiver was melting down old lenses and reflowing them into "new" lenses. I don't know if he ever got very far, but he mentioned it here: https://elightbars.org/forums/threads/lens-dome-etc-cleaning-and-polishing.62541/#post-111324
The late sirenman John Dorgan managed to obtain the original small Federal Model 17 lens mold and was producing these lenses for resale. That mold may be the single most valuable item in his collection. Look here: https://elightbars.org/forums/threads/its-finally-here-beacon-ray-model-17-c.22524/#post-201699
Member ryan performed a feasibility analysis of producing new TwinSonic lenses. He asserted that Federal Signal will not come off their molds. That discussion begins here: https://elightbars.org/forums/threads/making-new-vintage-model-domes.1900/#post-14125
The late sirenman John Dorgan managed to obtain the original small Federal Model 17 lens mold and was producing these lenses for resale. That mold may be the single most valuable item in his collection. Look here: https://elightbars.org/forums/threads/its-finally-here-beacon-ray-model-17-c.22524/#post-201699
Member ryan performed a feasibility analysis of producing new TwinSonic lenses. He asserted that Federal Signal will not come off their molds. That discussion begins here: https://elightbars.org/forums/threads/making-new-vintage-model-domes.1900/#post-14125
dmathieu
Lifetime VIP Donor
With all of the parts required for just one style bar, and the relatively small market...economically unsound.
Good to dream though!
Good to dream though!
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
The cost of recreating one vintage lightbar alone would bankrupt anybody who would attempt to do so, let alone every single vintage lightbar. The market is so small that it wouldn't make sense to even try. While it may seem as if there are several vintage lightbar enthusiasts, there really aren't that many to justify trying to manufacture parts to recreate vintage lightbars.
Forgetting for a minute everything you'd need to make domes and lenses, you would need the machinery to make all the other small metal plates, screws, clamps, brackets, and fittings that make up the guts of the bars.
Forgetting for a minute everything you'd need to make domes and lenses, you would need the machinery to make all the other small metal plates, screws, clamps, brackets, and fittings that make up the guts of the bars.
WhelenNDealin
Member
This is spot-on, IMO. Factoring in what's involved in even a more basic "classic" bar, you still have a ton of production involved. I'm taking a guess here, but much of the machinery and/or molds needed to manufacture even the most basic parts (e.g. a rotator gear), in addition to raw materials (e.g. aluminum, plastics, etc), in addition to production machinery design, maintenance and operation costs plus the costs of hiring, training and paying assemblers, even if there were only a few of them, would be huge.
Now, take a rarer and/or more complicated bar where the molds/designs are long gone, the original production machinery long-scrapped and the production specs long gone and things get even more costly. Throw in the costs of the redesign and production of even the most basic things like a gear, and those costs go up even further. I'm by no means an expert in industrial production, manufacturing, design or processes, but there's a shocking amount of time, labour and money involved in making even pretty basic stuff.
That and the other big downside would be that these bars would be reproductions, more or less. They wouldn't really be the real deal. That and it opens the floodgates for really cheap knockoff copy reproductions. Take a look at anything collectable where reproductions are made; there's usually a saturation in low-quality knockoff junk and copies. Not to mention reproductions being passed off as the real deal. It really opens the door for scammers and crooks like crazy.
That, and it's a copyright and patent litigation nightmare.
It's a wonderful idea, it really is, but it's just not feasible and as I see it, risks saturating the market with overpriced garbage knockoff reproductions, making the terrain even trickier for collectors.
Last edited:
Jarred J.
Lifetime VIP Donor
you can take almost any product, send it to china and have it remade for reasonable amounts...
The original patents for some items would have the dimensions of the items so no need to "reverse engineer" them. metal in bulk is cheap (compared to buying at resale or post distributor pricing). its feasible for the right investor with nothing to do, but there isnt a market enough to do it.
plus it would no longer be "rare"
The original patents for some items would have the dimensions of the items so no need to "reverse engineer" them. metal in bulk is cheap (compared to buying at resale or post distributor pricing). its feasible for the right investor with nothing to do, but there isnt a market enough to do it.
plus it would no longer be "rare"
WhelenNDealin
Member
My biggest problem with having it remade is that it'd really open the flood gates for really garbage-quality knockoffs of the reproductions hitting the market. Not just like Alibaba cheapo crap, but full-on copies of classic bars, beacons and sirens with the manufacturer's logos. Case in point, I collect Canadian and Commonwealth militaria. I get reproduction medals for display cases that I build. There are the good repros (which are also stamped with "REPRO" on the side of the medal or something similar) and then the ones that are absolute garbage quality from China or the ones passed off as the real deal. They mass-produce crap that's an affront to what those medals, decorations and orders stand for. They botch things like the typeface on the medals, the details of the medal and the effigy of HM The Queen. I've seen some awful effigies that make her look like a man in drag, amongst other things.
Another thing, a repro manufacturer that uses a company logo and trademark is opening themselves up to get sued into the stone age. Imagine a company using say, Fed Sig logos and trademarks. That company would be smashed into oblivion by a bunch of expensive lawyers.
Jarred, what you said is the "investor with nothing to do" is the biggie there. No secret that the big-money investors aren't going to waste their money in a niche market with very small, if any, returns. That and the bars wouldn't be rare. The day that a Skybolt, for example, ceases to be rare and collectible because of reproductions flooding the market is the day where I think a lot of us would get out of collecting. There would be such a saturation in NOS stuff that are just repros that it'd be very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially for a newbie such as myself.
Another thing, a repro manufacturer that uses a company logo and trademark is opening themselves up to get sued into the stone age. Imagine a company using say, Fed Sig logos and trademarks. That company would be smashed into oblivion by a bunch of expensive lawyers.
Jarred, what you said is the "investor with nothing to do" is the biggie there. No secret that the big-money investors aren't going to waste their money in a niche market with very small, if any, returns. That and the bars wouldn't be rare. The day that a Skybolt, for example, ceases to be rare and collectible because of reproductions flooding the market is the day where I think a lot of us would get out of collecting. There would be such a saturation in NOS stuff that are just repros that it'd be very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially for a newbie such as myself.
Stampeed Valkyrie
Member
Hey I'd be willing to pay if someone started churning out Aerodynic Clutch gear replacements.. seriously!