Weird/Cool/Odd Britain

[SomeBloke]

So having trawled through some of youtube, again, I came across a couple of videos of some cool, odd and somewhat weird sirens from across the UK.


Musical Sirens of London Fire Brigade

 

[Rofocowboy84]

The one on the right truck in the first vid sounds like a Whelen WS-295...

 

[SomeBloke]

Yep alot of the lfb use whelen ws295s. The newer vehicles use whelens too. In fact most of the uk uses whelen and premier hazard sirens. The met police like to be different though and use whelen, redtronic and metsound sirens.

 

[Station 3]

The BMW "air raid" siren sounds like something the Japanese Imperial Police have in all the Marked units. The weirdest one was that WHITE NOISE siren thats just cool. I wonder if it was effective in its job?

 

[SomeBloke]

If memory serves, me the vehicle on the video is from a drama series called London's Burning but I know North Yorkshire ambulance service did use it. I think they found it effective but it caused too much confusion for motorists so stuck with the standard wail/yelp/two tone. There was an article from I think Leeds University that covered this siren.


As for the BMW I do know that it is fitted to several marked and unmarked met police units and is also fitted to several Humberside Fire appliances.

 

[SomeBloke]

Edited. Double post

 

[slash9dotnet]

First video sounded like the ole' Wobbulators. lol

 

[lafd55]

I don't really think those are weird or odd to me...... Maybe that "White Noise" Siren, but everyone else sounds about right for where they are. If you should us American cars with those types of sirens then I would definitely consider them out of place.

 

[poornamechoice]

The BTP van siren I am sure is the common RSG universal siren (may be rebadged from another company for all I know), these are the controllers/sirens in our fleet Universal Controller (CVS) (they make our lightbars too - we use the Stellar LED ones).


We only have wail and yelp installed on most of the cars however the newer ones have a seperate air horn switch (although it is a little odd to hear someone laying on the air horn thick and then a little astra emerge from traffic).


I can remember my driving instructor going "wail for the journey, yelp for the junctions, sod messing with the rest - two car convoy, both on seperate tones", not sure I agreed with entirely but that is probably why we don't have more tones installed, keeps you focused on the driving.

 

[SomeBloke]

The BTP van siren I am sure is the common RSG universal siren (may be rebadged from another company for all I know), these are the controllers/sirens in our fleet Universal Controller (CVS) (they make our lightbars too - we use the Stellar LED ones).

We only have wail and yelp installed on most of the cars however the newer ones have a seperate air horn switch (although it is a little odd to hear someone laying on the air horn thick and then a little astra emerge from traffic).


I can remember my driving instructor going "wail for the journey, yelp for the junctions, sod messing with the rest - two car convoy, both on seperate tones", not sure I agreed with entirely but that is probably why we don't have more tones installed, keeps you focused on the driving.

Wouldn't be Lincolnshire police would it? They're the only force I know to have only wail/ yelp installed. I've heard the Btp van's siren on nearly all of Avon and somersets vehicles, Cambridgeshire, west midlands, and a saw a brand new paramedic vehicle video with can't remember which service.

 

[poornamechoice]

Wouldn't be Lincolnshire police would it? They're the only force I know to have only wail/ yelp installed. I've heard the Btp van's siren on nearly all of Avon and somersets vehicles, Cambridgeshire, west midlands, and a saw a brand new paramedic vehicle video with can't remember which service.

Not Lincs but it is on your list, bit odd really as there is nothing to stop it being enabled but they have just chosen for whatever reason to disable the other tones. Some pandas in around 2008 did get hi-lo tones but the new ones have not and we had a 2007 Focus with the phaser tone...not sure what the gucci cars (traffic/firearms etc) get, no doubt better!

 

[SomeBloke]

That is just odd then, I bet the traffic/ARVs got Whelens and/or Prem-hazards. I'm guessing it's West Midlands then, as A/S have all tones as the Cambridgeshire vehicles I've seen/heard.

 

[EngCo4]

I'll bet you guys would go CRAZY if you


had Federal Q2Bs and Grover airhorns on


your apparatus! Wouldn't it sound GREAT


bouncing off of those buildings in London's


narrow streets?


Don;t the Eurpoean countries (and the UK of course)


have some kind of standard or ordnance that


forbids the use of real sirens such as Federals


because of the "air raid" syndrome from the wars?


Just sort of curious, because I notice that even


before electronic sirens, euro apparatus and


police vehicles used those 2-tone horns. I


think that originated with the French?


Fill me in? Always want to learn new things.


Thanks

 

[SomeBloke]

I think you are correct with regards to the Q not being used. Police originally used bells then moved onto the air horns then the yelp and wail. With regards to noise though there are some laws in areas of the uk for use of car horns and fireworks after 11pm in residential areas. But also two tone horns aren't exactly quiet, I always think of them as the Q of Britain.


I know Spain has something similar to a Q siren which they run alongside two tones.

 

[EngCo4]

SomeBloke;


I find the part about "objectionable nosie limits" interesting


when it comes to EMERGENCY WARNING EQUIPMENT! We


are encountering similar things here in the States! NYC has


banned the use of real sirens like the Federal Q because of


"high and objectionable noise" and "noise pollution"!


The whole purpose of emergency warning equipment is to


MAKE NOISE and STAND OUT AGAINST THE NORM!


Between hermetically sealed automobiles and uber-quiet


emergency vehicles, there have been MORE accidents between


EVs and citizen vehicles than ever before! I would think that


the problem would be exponentially worse in the narrow


crowded streets over there!


I do, however, understand and sympathize on the topic of


the "air raid syndrome" because of all of the horrific trauma


that European countries have suffered over the last century.


I saw a similar discussion on another fire services board and


a fellow from Finland cited this reason for not using conventional


sirens there. Although he says that now some countries ARE


adopting more Amrican types of audio warning equipment, even


mechanical sirens on vehicles!


I also note that visual warning equipment seems to be very minimal


on fire apparatus in Europe, but that EMS vehicles are starting to


carry more and varied lighting packages now. Same for police.


But Fire vehicles still seem somewhat muted in their equipment.


Is there a pan-Eurpoean standard for warning equipment over


there?


BTW...what do Europeans think of our warning equipment and


vehicles?


Again, would be interesting to learn.


Thank you

 

[SomeBloke]

There isn't a standard for EV lighting or setup but the Uk, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Germany are definitely more likely to light up EVs than say France. Spain is an odd one as their fire vehicles are bad but Ems and police are well lit.


The UK is outfitted with Whelen, Premier hazard and the odd Federal signal lighting equipment so it's usually very visible. But at the same time most of the Uk and Scandanavia have reflective battenburg patterns so they stand out a lot.


Poland and a few other eastern block countries are fast becoming better equipped with some great EV lighting.


The only area I'd say Britain falls over is unmarked police cars... But that's mainly the London met police who like to play hide the light from view.


I think a lot of EU sees US EVs as mobile discos, very bright and noisey but somewhat ridiculous. But I live in Alabama where things seem quite well balanced, local PD uses Whelen libertys and edges with minimal interior flashers.


Go on YouTube and search for BlueLightVids he's great for London and southern county vehicles.


The worst police force in England I've seen regarding EV setup is Thames valley who put mini bars on everything. :bonk:

 

[poornamechoice]

SomeBloke;

I find the part about "objectionable nosie limits" interesting


when it comes to EMERGENCY WARNING EQUIPMENT! We


are encountering similar things here in the States! NYC has


banned the use of real sirens like the Federal Q because of


"high and objectionable noise" and "noise pollution"!


The whole purpose of emergency warning equipment is to


MAKE NOISE and STAND OUT AGAINST THE NORM!


Between hermetically sealed automobiles and uber-quiet


emergency vehicles, there have been MORE accidents between


EVs and citizen vehicles than ever before! I would think that


the problem would be exponentially worse in the narrow


crowded streets over there!


I do, however, understand and sympathize on the topic of


the "air raid syndrome" because of all of the horrific trauma


that European countries have suffered over the last century.


I saw a similar discussion on another fire services board and


a fellow from Finland cited this reason for not using conventional


sirens there. Although he says that now some countries ARE


adopting more Amrican types of audio warning equipment, even


mechanical sirens on vehicles!


I also note that visual warning equipment seems to be very minimal


on fire apparatus in Europe, but that EMS vehicles are starting to


carry more and varied lighting packages now. Same for police.


But Fire vehicles still seem somewhat muted in their equipment.


Is there a pan-Eurpoean standard for warning equipment over


there?


BTW...what do Europeans think of our warning equipment and


vehicles?


Again, would be interesting to learn.


Thank you

It is a bit of a balance of risk vs. gain.


Our driver policy is very simple, lights on = should have sirens on. Running without sirens is permitted but in the event of an accident expect to face some uncomfortable questions about your decision.


The police station I work at is directly in the middle of a housing estate, when I drive out I drive along terraced streets where the road is just about the width of two cars. If I end up being sent to a call needing lights/sirens at 4AM am I going to gain anything except waking up and annoying the residents? Probably not, no one will be around, I will drive a little slower to cater for the lack of siren. That is my decision, nothing in law to stop me using the siren as soon as I start the car if I want to - it is specifically allowed for me to use the siren 24x7. That journey at 3PM? You bet the siren will be on.


Love a set of classic two tone air horns on the car though, not sure the alternators in my little car will cope though!

 

[EngCo4]

poornamechoice;


Thank you for the reply. Maybe the term "muted" was a little off...


I was referring to the minimalistic amount of lighting on fire apparatus


and the relatively "quiet" audio warning equipment as compared to


what we use here in the US.


It seems that the traffic congestion and roads system there is at least


as bad (if not worse in some cases) as it is here. And it makes one


wonder why you all wouldn't want more lighting and louder warning


devices in order to make yourselves known over all of the ambient


noise, congestion, and other lighting from buildings, storefronts and


advertising. This is part of what causes us here to add lights to our


apparatus in this country. (Yes, "pride" is also a factor)


Looking at some response videos from Europe and the UK it seems that


your apparatus doesn't get noticed by other drivers and it is hard to


spot the responding apparatus in all of the clutter due to the small


number and size of emergency lights. Apparently Police and EMS are


waking up to this and between the bright paint schemes and the


addition of newer and brighter emergency lighting and louder sirens


they seem to fare better in traffic.


Would this require a standards change for fire apparatus lighting?


I also notice that you all are using more lightbars on apparatus now


but also not many lights in them! Lots of spaces "blanked out" rather


than populated with additional light heads. Wonder why? If you have


it, use it!


This is shaping up into an interesting thread! Thank you.


PS...You ever look at any of our response videos from over here?


Comments? Good to learn!

 

[SomeBloke]

I think it does depend on which county you are in as each tends to outfit their vehicles differently. Not to mention that the part time stations get the older vehicles as its cost effective and they still do the job.


Personally I reckon Avon fire & rescue, Hampshire fire service and Humberside fire & rescue are the best lighting setup services in England. Hampshire seems to be one of the best counties for EV equipment too.


In response to lightbar spaces quite a few are strobes which as we all know don't capture too well on camera.


Weirdly London ambulance service vehicles are outfitted with a full light set yet only use minimal lights, but the RRVs are lit up like Christmas trees.


On a plus Britain doesn't seem to have problems with Split-fail which is great. Too many US povvids have I seen where all you see is an orange or purple blur that could set off an epileptic at 2 miles.

 

[Snibsey]

I think you are correct with regards to the Q not being used. Police originally used bells then moved onto the air horns then the yelp and wail. With regards to noise though there are some laws in areas of the uk for use of car horns and fireworks after 11pm in residential areas. But also two tone horns aren't exactly quiet, I always think of them as the Q of Britain.


Not exactly accurate. A few police forces installed friction drive and later electrically driven disc sirens in their traffic cars in the 1940s and 50s but these were replaced by the less difficult to maintain air horns in the 60s.


Some fire brigades and ambulance services also equipped their fleets with disc sirens in the 1950s and 1960s.

 

[SomeBloke]

I think you are correct with regards to the Q not being used. Police originally used bells then moved onto the air horns then the yelp and wail. With regards to noise though there are some laws in areas of the uk for use of car horns and fireworks after 11pm in residential areas. But also two tone horns aren't exactly quiet, I always think of them as the Q of Britain.

Not exactly accurate. A few police forces installed friction drive and later electrically driven disc sirens in their traffic cars in the 1940s and 50s but these were replaced by the less difficult to maintain air horns in the 60s.


Some fire brigades and ambulance services also equipped their fleets with disc sirens in the 1950s and 1960s.

Ah, that's pretty interesting. The disc sirens were like mini air raid sirens, right?

 

[Snibsey]

Ah, that's pretty interesting. The disc sirens were like mini air raid sirens, right?

The police in Nottingham conducted experiments in the 1930s to find the most effective warning device for their cars and found that friction drive sirens could be heard upto half a mile away. At this time London's Metropolitan Police cars didn't even have their ridiculous bells.


All Nottingham's emergency vehicles were fitted with disc (air raid style) sirens until the middle 1960s.


Here's a link to a photo of an ambulance that has been preserved with its mechanical siren quite visible.


Vintage ambulance museum , restoration, Nottinghamshire , UK

 

[SomeBloke]

I guess that's what I get for being a Teeside/Yorkshire man... I certainly would love to hear a disc siren vs a Q siren!


Incidently have you the new Nottinghamshire dog section skodas? They look bloody mean!

 

[poornamechoice]

poornamechoice;

Thank you for the reply. Maybe the term "muted" was a little off...


I was referring to the minimalistic amount of lighting on fire apparatus


and the relatively "quiet" audio warning equipment as compared to


what we use here in the US.


It seems that the traffic congestion and roads system there is at least


as bad (if not worse in some cases) as it is here. And it makes one


wonder why you all wouldn't want more lighting and louder warning


devices in order to make yourselves known over all of the ambient


noise, congestion, and other lighting from buildings, storefronts and


advertising. This is part of what causes us here to add lights to our


apparatus in this country. (Yes, "pride" is also a factor)


Looking at some response videos from Europe and the UK it seems that


your apparatus doesn't get noticed by other drivers and it is hard to


spot the responding apparatus in all of the clutter due to the small


number and size of emergency lights. Apparently Police and EMS are


waking up to this and between the bright paint schemes and the


addition of newer and brighter emergency lighting and louder sirens


they seem to fare better in traffic.


Would this require a standards change for fire apparatus lighting?


I also notice that you all are using more lightbars on apparatus now


but also not many lights in them! Lots of spaces "blanked out" rather


than populated with additional light heads. Wonder why? If you have


it, use it!


This is shaping up into an interesting thread! Thank you.


PS...You ever look at any of our response videos from over here?


Comments? Good to learn!

I do often think about more lighting, currently some of our cars are what would be deemed by most in the US as woeful (twin rotators/couple of LED's/HLF and a siren - thats it) but they are slowly improving.

Would it make a difference having loads more lighting? Probably not much, siren could do with improving to 200W though. Did another trip today and most drivers noticed me well in advance and this is with 2 x 55W rotators, I think most people who don't notice me coming would not notice me even if the car was flourescent pink with 1KW worth of LED's on it, they are just bad drivers and more equipment would not change things - they are simply in their little own world. It is not a massive problem if the odd car does not notice me.


There is no real interest in the cars here by the actual people that drive them, most officers know that the 999 button turns the lights on and the clear button turns them off. That is the extent of their knowledge and interest so there is never push for improved lightbars/sirens, neither are the accident statistics good enough to justify it. We buy them for the most part from the manufacturer in a police package like this 52mpg Peugeot 308 now available as police car and as such I am furthest down the line when it comes to asking for more warning equipment - the companies have figured out what is just about the safe amount of lights to add to the car and nothing else is fitted.


Now budget cuts are hitting the emergency services everyone is looking to cut costs and as bizarre as it sounds I know that is why some of our lightbars are now half populated rather than fully. Sad state of affairs to save a little amount of money but can see why they are doing it.


I am always fascinated by response videos from the world over, it can improve your driving if you run through it and think what would I do in that position. Keep meaning to do one myself.


.

 

[SomeBloke]

I'm gonna take the opportunity to add a few videos of well lit UK/EU vehicles;


East of England Ambulance - in London

Hampshire is the only Fire service I know that incorporates Amber into the forward facing lightbar.

 

[Snibsey]

The police in Nottingham conducted experiments in the 1930s to find the most effective warning device for their cars and found that friction drive sirens could be heard upto half a mile away. At this time London's Metropolitan Police cars didn't even have their ridiculous bells.

All Nottingham's emergency vehicles were fitted with disc (air raid style) sirens until the middle 1960s.


Here's a link to a photo of an ambulance that has been preserved with its mechanical siren quite visible.


Vintage ambulance museum , restoration, Nottinghamshire , UK

Here's a photo of a preserved Nottingham County fire appliance with a mechanical siren and bell

 

[SomeBloke]

A pink fire engine...