What is a "flapper" on a siren?

[cromwell]

Hi friends!


Maybe a dumb question but I don´t know what a "flapper" is on a Pulsator siren...


Is it the grille in the front or something behind that grille?


What is the purpose of the flapper?


Is a Pulsator siren more powerful than for example a model 66 siren??


Greetings

 

[lotsofbars]

The pulsating mechanism worked by having a flapper control the amount of air that was being sucked in through the front and out the side slots of the siren. When the flapper was blocking the airway, the noise output would be noticeably diminished from when it was open, giving the siren a distinctive "pulsating" sound.


Here's a video that shows the pulsator attachment in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtqaY52RDyk

 

[foxtrot5]

Very cool idea, not sure if I personally like it, but I like the implimentation of doing something different in a time where most sirens only "ramped and coasted" if that's even a phrase...


Was the "flapper" user controlable or simply built into the siren and always in use no matter what?

 

[pc0k894]

The linked video is blocked to me for some reason.


Compare it to a musician holding a mute in front of a trumpet. It briefly muffles and changes the sound. The baffle is set on a gear that opens and closes as the impeller on the siren spins around. As long as the siren spun, the baffle opened and closed.


Maybe this link works?

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Very cool idea, not sure if I personally like it, but I like the implimentation of doing something different in a time where most sirens only "ramped and coasted" if that's even a phrase...

Was the "flapper" user controlable or simply built into the siren and always in use no matter what?

The flapper was opened and closed via rotation of the rotor, though I coudn't tell you how many revolutions it took to completely open and close it one cycle.

 

[Skip Goulet]

The flapper was opened and closed via rotation of the rotor, though I coudn't tell you how many revolutions it took to completely open and close it one cycle.

Those flappers weren't built very well and were forever getting stuck in the 'off' position, not allowing air into the chamber, thus muffling the sound almost completely. That's why they didn't last very long. I always thought that Federal could've refined them and kept them much longer since they had such a neat sound.


As to the other question, depends on which Pulsator you got as to whether it was louder than a 66G or not. Federal marketed the Pulsators in all classes except the tiny "volunteer" class. You could tell a Pulsator by its model number: the Q was a PQO, a C class was a PCO and the 66 was the P660 and was the one seen on the NYPD cars. The Pulsator attachment was also offered as a separate item for exisiting "regular" sirens.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

I'm one of the only NYPD alumni in a group of older old-timers who fondly remember the old stuff that prefers the pulsator w/out the flap, as in the 28/66 with nose cone but no flap inside, in fact I'm in the process of assembling an underhood version that would be a P280H (w/out flap).

 

[TheLightFromMars]

...I really don't get why they were needed in the first place. They didn't appear to me to make that big a difference in sound output or tone and pretty lame for a "mechanical yelp". IMHO it seems more like overcomplicating the plumbing...


Can somebody enlighten me on this?

 

[CHIEFOPS]

Jump to page 16, explains it's purpose and purported benefit


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3598300/Federal%201963%20Catalog.pdf

 

[Henry455]

...I really don't get why they were needed in the first place. They didn't appear to me to make that big a difference in sound output or tone and pretty lame for a "mechanical yelp". IMHO it seems more like overcomplicating the plumbing...

Can somebody enlighten me on this?

This was Federal's sales pitch: (Oops, looks like Chiefops and I posted at same time)

 

[TheLightFromMars]

Thanks guys. I figure I'd have to hear it in person to really make a good judgement on it.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

With flapper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtqaY52RDyk


Without flapper:

 

[cromwell]

Hello everybody and thanks for many interesting answers!!


Now to the value of a Pulsator siren with "the flapper" .....


I guess it is worth more if the flapper is working, right?


I have been offered to buy a siren like this, but the mounting foot is missing, don´t know if that´s a big deal...


And the siren is also a bit dented in the front (sorry, I don´t have any pic of it yet...)


How much do you think it could be worth in that shape??

 

[lotsofbars]

Hello everybody and thanks for many interesting answers!!

Now to the value of a Pulsator siren with "the flapper" .....


I guess it is worth more if the flapper is working, right?


I have been offered to buy a siren like this, but the mounting foot is missing, don´t know if that´s a big deal...


And the siren is also a bit dented in the front (sorry, I don´t have any pic of it yet...)


How much do you think it could be worth in that shape??

If it's beat up like that, it is and isn't worth a lot, depending on a few major factors. If it works well mechanically and it only has cosmetic issues, then it's worth a whole lot more than something that needs substantial mechanical work. The mounting feet aren't easy to find, but not impossible either. What's the asking price?

 

[Henry455]

Hello everybody and thanks for many interesting answers!!

Now to the value of a Pulsator siren with "the flapper" .....


I guess it is worth more if the flapper is working, right?


I have been offered to buy a siren like this, but the mounting foot is missing, don´t know if that´s a big deal...


And the siren is also a bit dented in the front (sorry, I don´t have any pic of it yet...)


How much do you think it could be worth in that shape??

Joe Dorgan has replica mounts for the 66/28 series sirens.

 

[cromwell]

If it's beat up like that, it is and isn't worth a lot, depending on a few major factors. If it works well mechanically and it only has cosmetic issues, then it's worth a whole lot more than something that needs substantial mechanical work. The mounting feet aren't easy to find, but not impossible either. What's the asking price?

I don´t know how much dented the siren is, but the seller that it is not that bad.


I was told to make him an offer... would 150-200$ be a fair price??

 

[Skip Goulet]

I'm one of the only NYPD alumni in a group of older old-timers who fondly remember the old stuff that prefers the pulsator w/out the flap, as in the 28/66 with nose cone but no flap inside, in fact I'm in the process of assembling an underhood version that would be a P280H (w/out flap).

For many years Federal offered the 66G with the extended front end and the small grille front that looked like screen wire. These front ends did not have the "louvers" on the bottom like you see on their lighted models. I have a very old model in my collection that is simply a "66" w/o the G added and was built in the '40s. This one is one of the rare 12-volt models that they made. They called it the "Junior Longroll Siren", but it's not a true coaster. This model has a small motor (not the little black "heater motor" you see on some of the smaller sirens), not the "starter motor" common to the larger sirens. But it packs a good wallop and has a decent roll. I also acquired a 66G some time back that had the same extended front end. Came off a fire truck in Chatanooga, TN. It had been dropped and the shaft was bent. I let my "adopted" father who is a retired vollie fire chief have it. He took the front end off and mounted it on a 77GB doubletone siren. It looks awesome, but I haven't had a chance to hear it yet.

 

[TheLightFromMars]

With flapper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtqaY52RDyk


Without flapper:

Thanks! NOW I hear the difference.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I don´t know how much dented the siren is, but the seller that it is not that bad.
I was told to make him an offer... would 150-200$ be a fair price??

With the bracket missing and if there are dents, I wouldn't offer much more than $75 or so. Remember, these may well be vintage, but not yet antiques. And it would help to know what shape it's in mechanically.

 

[Black Hoe]

I'm one of the only NYPD alumni in a group of older old-timers who fondly remember the old stuff that prefers the pulsator w/out the flap, as in the 28/66 with nose cone but no flap inside, in fact I'm in the process of assembling an underhood version that would be a P280H (w/out flap).

I strongly disagree. My early NYPD memories are the P660's with the flapper. To me it sounds like pure NYPD RMP's of the 60's. I recently purchased a fully intact P280. It took me several years to find one with the working flapper. I will post a video soon once it is hooked up in my Tahoe.


A Pulsator siren with a working flapper adds hundreds of dollars to the price of the siren.

 

[Skip Goulet]

I strongly disagree. My early NYPD memories are the P660's with the flapper. To me it sounds like pure NYPD RMP's of the 60's. I recently purchased a fully intact P280. It took me several years to find one with the working flapper. I will post a video soon once it is hooked up in my Tahoe.

A Pulsator siren with a working flapper adds hundreds of dollars to the price of the siren.

Finding a Pulsator with the working flapper is going to take some doing. And you're right, that jacks up the price a bit.


There's currently a rather rugged-looking old P280 on Ebay with the current bid about $40. I emailed the guy to ask if the flapper worked, and he said that he had run the siren with the pulser attachment off and it worked. He didn't even think about seeing if the flapper worked. Maybe he'll try it and get back to me. I've seen a lot of the old NYPD P660s around over the years. An Army surplus store up in Plainview, TX had a batch of the years ago that went for $39.99. The sirens worked o.k. but the flappers didn't. I bought one and took the Pulser front off and replaced it with the Propello-Ray light off a long deceased 67 siren. Worked fine and the old 66 was loud! It also looked decent on the roof of our '69 Pontiac ambulance, sitting between a pair of Federal "hill light" beacons and red DoRay lollipops!