What is (was) FCC Narrowbanding?

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
Even though it has been quite some time since the FCC's Narrowband mandate has occurred, I still see some confusion on exactly what happened when this occurred.

Let's start out with a brief explanation of how a normal analog FM voice signal "looks" like.  Draw a horizontal line, then draw a wavy line up and down across that line that extends equidistant above and below the line.  You've just drawn the space that a voice signal takes up.  Let's say the center of that line depicts your Fire dispatch frequency, or 155.000 Megahertz (MHz).  

Prior to narrowbanding, basically, each radio transmission was allowed a 000.025 MHz (25 Kilohertz/KHz) total space around it's  frequency that it could operate in.  Without going into specifics, that means that your frequency of 155.000 was "allowed" from 154.9875 MHz to 155.0125 Mhz to operate.  That is a 25 Khz space.  We call this 25 KHz channel spacing.

After narrowbanding, all VHF (for the purposes of public safety, 150-174MHz), and UHF (421-512MHz), transmissions were only allowed to take up half that space, or 12.5 KHz (000.0125 MHz) instead of 25 KHz.  Your fire dispatch frequency of 155.000 now could only take up from 154.99375-155.00625 (compared to 154.9875-155.0125).  When you consider the frequency range of 150-174 MHz as a "spectrum", your transmissions after narrowbanding were only allowed to take up half the space in the spectrum as they did before.  The wavy line you drew earlier is now half as wide.  

Alright, cool, but why?  To make room for more available licensed frequencies.  That's it.  When all the existing frequencies now take up half as much space in the spectrum as they did before, we've now got room in that same spectrum for TWICE as many licensed frequencies to give out to the end user like PD's, FD's, EMS, etc...

"So why did we HAVE to go digital?"  You didn't.  But, Many agencies took advantage of the narrowband requirement to purchase new and update radios and radio systems.  Many OLD radios didn't even have the capability to DO narrowband, so they were not compliant with the narrowband mandate and could not be used, forcing agencies to purchase new radios.  Some agencies with equipment like this said "OK, we have to buy new radios and possibly new equipment for our radio system to narrowband.  Do we want to spend a bunch of money only to keep the junky same old type of system that we had, or do we want to spend money and update our radio system to something more effecient?  We have to spend the money either way, we either stay with what we have, or upgrade and prepare for the future".

In the case of local agencies where I live, that's exactly what happened.  They had some narrowbandable equipment, and some that wasn't narrowband compliant.  They also were having trouble communicating between agencies on different types of radio systems.  So all the agencies said "Well, we HAVE to spend the money to narrowband, lets use this opportunity to upgrade to P25 trunking and get everybody in the county on the same system at the same time".  Still, many agencies across the country chose only to narrowband their current system and be done with it.  In many cases, all that took (with modern enough equipment) was a contractor or city/county radio tech to come in, change all the current frequencies from 25khz spacing to 12.5khz spacing in your portables and mobiles, push the "program" button on the programming software, and be done with it.  (There was also work at tower sites to narrowband the tower site equipment as well).  Some agencies also took this time to license new frequencies for additional use, or update their current analog systems, or kept their existing conventional (non trunking) radio systems from analog voice to digital voice.  The ONLY requirement was narrowbanding.  Any upgrades past that were left entirely up to agencies.

I see a lot of people saying "Yeah we did the digital requirement". Not true.  there was no requirement to go digital.  Some agencies just knew they were going to have to spend money anyway, and took the opportunity to do massive upgrades instead of merely complying with the narrow band requirement.

Narrowband does not mean digital.
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Ben, subjectively, do most people hear a difference in a narrow band transmission, vs the old, wider channel?  It's not like hi-fi sound (20Hz - 20kHz) was being transmitted before.  Was the wider channel just wasting spectrum all those years, or narrow banding a compromise of audio quality?
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
A narrow radio transmitting and being received by a narrow radio, the difference in audio is minimal.  The quality is the same, but the audio level drops minimally.  A narrow signal being received on a wide radio will be significantly quieter, and vice versa, a wide signal being received on a narrow radio will probably sound over-driven.  Ultimately, the goal would be to get all radios on a particular system switched on the same day to minimize this, which happened pretty well around here, so none of that really matters.

I wouldn't say wide was wasting space, it's just that the space wasn't needed back then.  I wouldn't necessarily describe narrowbanding as a compromise either, when done right by the radio manufacturers.

From the FCC narrowband FAQ: "It has been estimated that Narrowband compliance can result in a 3 dB loss in signal strength. However, this rule of thumb is based upon a "plain vanilla" Narrowbanding scenario where a 25 kHz analog system converts to a 12.5 kHz analog system."

There's some very technical reasons behind that, that I only have a mediocre ability to explain.  We have a ton of really good radio guys on here that may have better explanation skills than me that might jump in, but suffice to say when we get into db readings and all that jazz, it gets deep quick.
 
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MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
I have a LE agency that just formed. The chief was told that the FCC now requires a written letter head from other agencies to be able to program other channels into their radios and that they could not do so without the letter head. Is this true? I haven't heard any such thing, then again the radio shop here is RAtarded....
 
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justavillain

Member
Mar 7, 2013
1,010
Grand Rapids
We needed the letter close to what you where told. But that was because a county apx 50 miles away from us has the same base freq. But that said we shouldn't hear anything from their tx/rx. The letter was just an acknowledgement by us that if we get some weird skip that's why.


Then we moved our repeater and had to get the same letter from them.


It is a vhf freq that I'm referring to and nothing to do with channels
 
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rwo978

Member
May 21, 2010
5,196
ND, USA
I've heard that Joe. Deals with MOUs and mutual aid. You know how it is, everything needs to be on paper.
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
The reason authorization letters happen is FCC licenses only grant specific numbers of radios to be used on a given frequency.  The number is up to the applicant, but legally, you can't have more radios than the number listed on your FCC license.  Licenses will usually list something like 'FB" (Fixed base, or the tower site, etc...), " FX" (control stations/desktop radios), and "MO" (mobile units).  FCC license holders need to be aware of how many mobile units, specifically, they are ACTUALLY using compared to what's allowed by their license (listed under MO), as well as the geographical area in which the users are operating their radios, since FCC licenses list that as a condition of the license ie; "Operating within a X Km radius of location of FB1".  Ultimately, the license holder (your sheriff, chief, EMA coordinator or whatever) is responsible to ensure that people are complying with the things listed on his/her license.

I can't speak for sure about an FCC requirement to have those letters, if anything it should be the license holder of the frequency they want to program that needs the letter.  I wish I could quote all the FCC rules.  But if I started reading them all right now, I'd probably die of old age (I'm 30) before I got halfway through.
 
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Steve0625

Member
Jun 23, 2010
1,213
Northville NY
It's less about the number of units authorized on the license, and more about legally allowing your neighbor to use your frequencies from time to time. Legally, I can not transmit on your licensed channel and you can't transmit on mine. However, if we execute a Memorandum Of Understanding that simply states that you are authorized to operate on my channels as needed and I am authorized to operate on your channels when necessary, then we've satisfied the FCC's rules on licensing and channel usage.

A lot of this arose out of the 9/11 issue of radio interoperability. It connects neighboring agencies quickly and legally with a minimum of muss and fuss.

It's a simple matter of documenting permission to use another agency's radio frequencies.
 
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MEVS06

New Member
May 23, 2010
3,485
San Antonio, TX
I understand all that, but what I think is BS that there are 3 state wide frequencies TX LAW 1, 2 and 3 which were implemented to circumvent all that. Yet the shop refuses to program those three channels.
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
Then they're idiots.  And if they're not ALSO programming the applicable National Interoperability frequencies in every radio they touch, they should be.
 
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JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Medical helicopters in our area love to use the simplex TX Law channels for some reason.  We'd be up the creek if our shop wouldn't program in those frequencies.
 

cabunty

Member
Sep 21, 2014
135
New England
Prior to narrowbanding, basically, each radio transmission was allowed a 000.025 MHz (25 Kilohertz/KHz) total space around it's  frequency that it could operate in.  Without going into specifics, that means that your frequency of 155.000 was "allowed" from 154.9875 MHz to 155.0125 Mhz to operate.  That is a 25 Khz space.  We call this 25 KHz channel spacing.

After narrowbanding, all VHF (for the purposes of public safety, 150-174MHz), and UHF (421-512MHz), transmissions were only allowed to take up half that space, or 12.5 KHz (000.0125 MHz) instead of 25 KHz.  Your fire dispatch frequency of 155.000 now could only take up from 154.99375-155.00625 (compared to 154.9875-155.0125).  When you consider the frequency range of 150-174 MHz as a "spectrum", your transmissions after narrowbanding were only allowed to take up half the space in the spectrum as they did before.  The wavy line you drew earlier is now half as wide.  
Correct me if I am wrong here... 25 KHz radios are only allowed a 10 KHz of deviation and 12.5 Khz are only allowed 4.5 KHz. In between the channels on 25 KHz, 15 KHz of unassigned space is there to keep users from interfering with each.other. In the case of 12.5 KHz that empty space between users is 8 KHz.
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
If those FM deviation numbers are true, that would be a noticable difference in the tonal quality.
 

Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
Correct me if I am wrong here... 25 KHz radios are only allowed a 10 KHz of deviation and 12.5 Khz are only allowed 4.5 KHz. In between the channels on 25 KHz, 15 KHz of unassigned space is there to keep users from interfering with each.other. In the case of 12.5 KHz that empty space between users is 8 KHz.
That extra space is for just what you described, yes.  I didn't want to get too technical in my basic explanation.

If those FM deviation numbers are true, that would be a noticable difference in the tonal quality.
To a radio nerd, yeah.  I can tell the difference.  But, manufacturers tried to make the difference between the 2 very minimal by the time it gets to the speaker.  If I put a set of wide radios and a set of narrow radios in front of a couple random public safety people and asked them to tell me which one was which based on how they sounded when they talked on them, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
 
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JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
explain.  :)
 
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Jarred J.

Lifetime VIP Donor
May 21, 2010
11,586
Shelbyville, TN
I think he's trying to say that 4.5 x 2 = 9 and not 8
 

JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Let's hear from Ben.  There might be a guard band, hence the seeming error in his arithmetics.
 

cabunty

Member
Sep 21, 2014
135
New England
Not to nitpick, but it's in error in the explanation of channel spacing. 25 KHz spacing users are only allowed and allocated 10 KHz bandwidth around the center frequency. 5 KHz on either side. 155.005 and 154.995. The extra 15 KHz was there to limit interference from adjacent channels/users.  

So say you are assigned 155.000 and the next town in the band plan using VHF-hi is assigned 155.025. 155.000 (you) + .005 (upper half of your allowed .010 allocation/deviation) + .015 (unassigned space to limit interference) + .005 (the low half allowed on adjacent users center) = 155.025

12.5 MHz is half of the 25 MHz but you are now only allowed 4.5 KHz (vs. 10) around your center frequency. 155.0045 and 155.9955. The "extra space" between users is also reduced to 8 KHz (vs. 15).

The easiest way to picture it is like a mag light going from flood to spot. Old style is flood, wide and spilling light all over. New 12.5 is the tight spot with much less flood. 

...and I won't even get it more complicated by mentioning VHF-hi 7.5 spacing or going into 6.25 KHz efficiency equivalents and such that are also going to happen at some point.  :)
 
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JazzDad

Member
Aug 5, 2011
5,165
USA
Great!  Much better than "i think your math is off."
 

cabunty

Member
Sep 21, 2014
135
New England
Correct, T-band is exempted from this past narrowbanding phase but supposedly will be part of the "giveback" that was part of....ready...the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012... strange as it may seem... T band is/was only used in/around the metro areas of 13 cities in the US those being Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas/Fort Worth, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Francisco and DC. There were also a few paging frequencies exempted, VHF-lo (30-50MHz), etc.

:)
  
 
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Ben E.

Member
May 21, 2010
2,417
Iowa, USA
Not to nitpick, but it's in error in the explanation of channel spacing. 25 KHz spacing users are only allowed and allocated 10 KHz bandwidth around the center frequency. 5 KHz on either side. 155.005 and 154.995. The extra 15 KHz was there to limit interference from adjacent channels/users.  


So say you are assigned 155.000 and the next town in the band plan using VHF-hi is assigned 155.025. 155.000 (you) + .005 (upper half of your allowed .010 allocation/deviation) + .015 (unassigned space to limit interference) + .005 (the low half allowed on adjacent users center) = 155.025


12.5 MHz is half of the 25 MHz but you are now only allowed 4.5 KHz (vs. 10) around your center frequency. 155.0045 and 155.9955. The "extra space" between users is also reduced to 8 KHz (vs. 15).


The easiest way to picture it is like a mag light going from flood to spot. Old style is flood, wide and spilling light all over. New 12.5 is the tight spot with much less flood. 


...and I won't even get it more complicated by mentioning VHF-hi 7.5 spacing or going into 6.25 KHz efficiency equivalents and such that are also going to happen at some point.  :)

Like I said, you're on the money with your explanation.  For a basic explanation, I didn't feel the need to go into the extra space, yada yada.  If I messed up my math, or rounded up to simplify, than oops.
 
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Alec R

Member
Sep 9, 2014
50
eLightbars
Is narrowband a requirement for the business bands? The VHF/UHF bands that do NOT require a license, more specifically?
 

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