What's the worst lightbar made by a well-known company? (FedSig, Code 3, Whelen)

[JohnMarcson]

I'm not counting bars that started out as one thing and then got new guts.... so the various bars Federal filled with different LEDs aren't being considered. Bars with multiple versions launch are fair game. I'm going to say the strobe version of the Vista was one of, if not the worst, "modern" lightbar. The poor strobe output was always obvious but even more so once the lower deck came with cuda LEDs. The shape of the top strobe reflectors essentially scooped sunlight in from the top to completely wash them out. On top of that fact, the power supply was supposed to be a breakthrough in pattern setup, with ricochet being hailed as the best of synchronized and random. In reality it was probably the worst of both, and almost looked like it was misfiring. The strobe version of the MX7000 was not good, but the strobe version of the Vista was somehow worse. I am however only talking about the strobe version. The Vista bar with halogen rotators was a good MX7000 competitor and in some ways better, but the strobe version was just awful.

The later independent rotator version of the jetsonic/stream was also pretty terrible. The chain drive version was arguably one of the best light bars of its era, and way ahead of its time with both a 12 volt and a multiplex smart version. For some reason the individual halogen rotators just didn't show up. I'm sure it was more noticeable because of how good the previous version was, but at one point the jet/steam rotators were almost invisible next to the flashers.That really began/continued a legacy of filling the jet with things that just didn't work, including LEDs. The jet strobe was pretty terrible too, but was made to look even worse by the fact that Tomar licensed the frame and put their strobes in it which showed off how good a strobe bar it could be.

The Code 3 intensity or XS was a big swing and a miss. At the time it was arguable that code 3 made the best rotator bars. It was probably not even debatable that they also made the worst strobe bars. The intensity was trying to compete with Whelen Edge, but basically added nothing and didn't pull off what it copied. The strobes were absolutely terrible output wise and they utilized a proprietary design where the capacitors were on the strobe heads. That idea never made sense to me because the capacitors are not a major failure point. I understand the idea of making the whole reflector and bulb replaceable, Whelen eventually did that rather than putting new bulbs into faded reflectors. But why put the capacitors on the disposable reflectors? I'm not sure if it wasn't attempt to compensate for different sized strobes while firing them off the same supply and not having to regulate output? It made for a really strange design that was incompatible with the rest of the world and seemed incredibly prone to failure. The outer domes did not hold up well and because they were complete domes vs lenses like the edge they let light in from the top and they faded. The internal colored filter system was not very robust and the tiny little plastic mounting feet tended to break. Add to that the fact that the patterns weren't anything special and the overall output wasn't good either and you are left with a bar that didn't offer anything that couldn't be gotten elsewhere, and screwed up the features it copied.The flush mount version of this bar when equipped with oscillating lights was actually pretty decent, but that's not really the same design.

I have over 20 Advantedge bars in my collection, I love the idea of what could be done with them. However.....The Whelen Advantedge was an example of missed potential. The bar allowed lots of options and could be customized into a really compelling system, on paper. In reality the lack of a reliable rotator really brought this bar down. The first two generations of rotators used brushes and the bulb rotated with the reflector which proved problematic. The third generation of rotator fixed that problem with a stationary bulb but lost a lot of the brightness and speed that the previous versions had. The oscillating options that were offered were plagued with snapped wires because the bulb remained on the reflector and the wires simply ran down through the assembly and twisted. It's not that this is a bad lightbar, I love customizing them and I have many in my collection. The Advantedge just represents a lot of missed potential IMHO. Theoretically, it was an edge bar with the ability to add external lower level lights and combine strobes with rotators. In practice it just had a lot of problems with reliability.

 

[Firefighterhtfd]

Non strobe advantedge thumbs down

 

[1968]

I'm not counting bars that started out as one thing and then got new guts.... so the various bars Federal filled with different LEDs aren't being considered. Bars with multiple versions launch are fair game. I'm going to say the strobe version of the Vista was one of, if not the worst, "modern" lightbar. The poor strobe output was always obvious but even more so once the lower deck came with cuda LEDs. The shape of the top strobe reflectors essentially scooped sunlight in from the top to completely wash them out. On top of that fact, the power supply was supposed to be a breakthrough in pattern setup, with ricochet being hailed as the best of synchronized and random. In reality it was probably the worst of both, and almost looked like it was misfiring. The strobe version of the MX7000 was not good, but the strobe version of the Vista was somehow worse. I am however only talking about the strobe version. The Vista bar with halogen rotators was a good MX7000 competitor and in some ways better, but the strobe version was just awful.

The later independent rotator version of the jetsonic/stream was also pretty terrible. The chain drive version was arguably one of the best light bars of its era, and way ahead of its time with both a 12 volt and a multiplex smart version. For some reason the individual halogen rotators just didn't show up. I'm sure it was more noticeable because of how good the previous version was, but at one point the jet/steam rotators were almost invisible next to the flashers.That really began/continued a legacy of filling the jet with things that just didn't work, including LEDs. The jet strobe was pretty terrible too, but was made to look even worse by the fact that Tomar licensed the frame and put their strobes in it which showed off how good a strobe bar it could be.

The Code 3 intensity or XS was a big swing and a miss. At the time it was arguable that code 3 made the best rotator bars. It was probably not even debatable that they also made the worst strobe bars. The intensity was trying to compete with Whelen Edge, but basically added nothing and didn't pull off what it copied. The strobes were absolutely terrible output wise and they utilized a proprietary design where the capacitors were on the strobe heads. That idea never made sense to me because the capacitors are not a major failure point. I understand the idea of making the whole reflector and bulb replaceable, Whelen eventually did that rather than putting new bulbs into faded reflectors. But why put the capacitors on the disposable reflectors? I'm not sure if it wasn't attempt to compensate for different sized strobes while firing them off the same supply and not having to regulate output? It made for a really strange design that was incompatible with the rest of the world and seemed incredibly prone to failure. The outer domes did not hold up well and because they were complete domes vs lenses like the edge they let light in from the top and they faded. The internal colored filter system was not very robust and the tiny little plastic mounting feet tended to break. Add to that the fact that the patterns weren't anything special and the overall output wasn't good either and you are left with a bar that didn't offer anything that couldn't be gotten elsewhere, and screwed up the features it copied.The flush mount version of this bar when equipped with oscillating lights was actually pretty decent, but that's not really the same design.

I have over 20 Advantedge bars in my collection, I love the idea of what could be done with them. However.....The Whelen Advantedge was an example of missed potential. The bar allowed lots of options and could be customized into a really compelling system, on paper. In reality the lack of a reliable rotator really brought this bar down. The first two generations of rotators used brushes and the bulb rotated with the reflector which proved problematic. The third generation of rotator fixed that problem with a stationary bulb but lost a lot of the brightness and speed that the previous versions had. The oscillating options that were offered were plagued with snapped wires because the bulb remained on the reflector and the wires simply ran down through the assembly and twisted. It's not that this is a bad lightbar, I love customizing them and I have many in my collection. The Advantedge just represents a lot of missed potential IMHO. Theoretically, it was an edge bar with the ability to add external lower level lights and combine strobes with rotators. In practice it just had a lot of problems with reliability.

Totally agree with all of those points, though I think the Strobehawks strobes were even poorer quality than the Vista but I did see Strobe Vista's in Meriden CT and yes, they were pretty bad. I think the 6000 was the worst Whelen bar b/c of their pretty significant reliability shortcomings.

 

[dmathieu]

Yeah, and because of those reliability shortcomings and obvious design flaws the 6000 Series bars are in extremely short supply, making them probably the most desirable collector's bar out there.

 

[1968]

Yeah, and because of those reliability shortcomings and obvious design flaws the 6000 Series bars are in extremely short supply, making them probably the most desirable collector's bar out there.

Milford CT had 6000s in service all the way until at least 1989. They were known for installing old bars on new cars, they also had 8000s on aero Vics in the 90s.

 

[dmathieu]

Worcester, MA had them in 1976-1978

 

[JohnMarcson]

There is a set of three 6000s NOS in an undisclosed place.. 1 oscillating, 1 loaded strobe, and one base model. An offer of over $10k was declined. They may not have been prolific or extremely effective (not that any early strobe were), but to a Whelen collector they are basically a holy grail.

 

[1968]

There is a set of three 6000s NOS in an undisclosed place.. 1 oscillating, 1 loaded strobe, and one base model. An offer of over $10k was declined. They may not have been prolific or extremely effective (not that any early strobe were), but to a Whelen collector they are basically a holy grail.

I would disagree. For me it would be a V tube Edge with California lights.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I would disagree. For me it would be a V tube Edge with California lights.

Well Im not going to tell you what YOUR holy grail bar should be, that's a preference.

As far a the prices offered by collectors, I can't say I have heard of a higher offer on a Whelen bar than a 6000. The 6000 has a giant dome that can't be made from any other bar or part. The domes cracked frequently and a good condition example is extremely rare. The fact that they weren't popular only makes them more rare. The oscillating version may have less than a handful of examples left. V tube edges are cool, something I the second I see it .... But not for $10k.

Obviously everyone has their own "holy grail" based on preference. I was talking rarity and the general desire within the group of "spend the mortgage money" level collectors I share info with. We all may have bars we like better or specifically want, but the 6000 is among, if not the, the most rare model of vintage Whelen bar.

I also don't think the 6000 can even be rated in a list of "awful bars". They were considered a covered crossbar, and existed at the very beginning of vehicular strobe technology. I look at them as an important stepping stone towards making actually meaningful strobe warning equipment. In order to actually judge them, you would have to compare them to other strobe light bars of the time which there were none. To me they represent Whelen starting the process of refining strobe technology to be relevant for vehicular warning. There were lots of missteps along the way, but generally they reengineered them relatively quickly. That might be what appeals to me so much about the 6000 is it represents a breif first attempt at something that hadn't been tried before and what later strobe technology was built upon.

 

[JohnMarcson]

Totally agree with all of those points, though I think the Strobehawks strobes were even poorer quality than the Vista but I did see Strobe Vista's in Meriden CT and yes, they were pretty bad. I think the 6000 was the worst Whelen bar b/c of their pretty significant reliability shortcomings.

Strobe hawks are an interesting thing because they essentially kept the 8000 series design long past when light bars made out of two 360° strobes were obsolete. I think right when they first came out they might have been relevant, but for some reason they were offered long after the standard in the industry had moved on. Even the jet strobe was far superior and offered alongside of the stroke hawk. Why the strobe hawk remained in the product line as long as it did is really a mystery to me. They were absolutely ineffective, but I think compared to an 8000 series bar they were similar. It's just that they kept the design long after the edge replaced the 8000.

 

[JohnMarcson]

I threw together a quick video about what made the strobe vista so bad in my opinion.

 

[1968]

Well Im not going to tell you what YOUR holy grail bar should be, that's a preference.

As far a the prices offered by collectors, I can't say I have heard of a higher offer on a Whelen bar than a 6000. The 6000 has a giant dome that can't be made from any other bar or part. The domes cracked frequently and a good condition example is extremely rare. The fact that they weren't popular only makes them more rare. The oscillating version may have less than a handful of examples left. V tube edges are cool, something I the second I see it .... But not for $10k.

Obviously everyone has their own "holy grail" based on preference. I was talking rarity and the general desire within the group of "spend the mortgage money" level collectors I share info with. We all may have bars we like better or specifically want, but the 6000 is among, if not the, the most rare model of vintage Whelen bar.

I also don't think the 6000 can even be rated in a list of "awful bars". They were considered a covered crossbar, and existed at the very beginning of vehicular strobe technology. I look at them as an important stepping stone towards making actually meaningful strobe warning equipment. In order to actually judge them, you would have to compare them to other strobe light bars of the time which there were none. To me they represent Whelen starting the process of refining strobe technology to be relevant for vehicular warning. There were lots of missteps along the way, but generally they reengineered them relatively quickly. That might be what appeals to me so much about the 6000 is it represents a breif first attempt at something that hadn't been tried before and what later strobe technology was built upon.

That's an interesting perspective. I rated the 6000 series like I did b/c of it's overall lackluster reliability and performance overall, but in the period 1976-78 there was nothing like it. For strobes Whelen definitely found the right formula for strobes with the Edge. If the mission for Whelen was to match incandescent and halogen rotating technology they accomplished it by the mid 90s. So the 6000 series was an early and definitely not perfect step along the way.

 

[1968]

Strobe hawks are an interesting thing because they essentially kept the 8000 series design long past when light bars made out of two 360° strobes were obsolete. I think right when they first came out they might have been relevant, but for some reason they were offered long after the standard in the industry had moved on. Even the jet strobe was far superior and offered alongside of the stroke hawk. Why the strobe hawk remained in the product line as long as it did is really a mystery to me. They were absolutely ineffective, but I think compared to an 8000 series bar they were similar. It's just that they kept the design long after the edge replaced the 8000.

Was the 8000 as bad with effectiveness?

 

[1968]

I threw together a quick video about what made the strobe vista so bad in my opinion.

Spot on with the poorly executed engineering. I still think the Strobehawk might have been at least as bad. Federal just could never get strobes down, but I don't feel like that was a priority. Same with Whelen they seemed like a strobe first and halogen as side projects maybe to lead new agencies in or something. A few police agencies in CT had strobe Vista's which I don't know why b/c Whelen strobes were far better and were local. If your buying anything besides Whelen get something brighter, like the halogen Vista which would have been a far better competitor to Whelen strobe tech. I definitely favor rotating lights but Whelen found a way to engineer strobes that by the turn of the century were at least as bright and attention getting as halogen. Then came LED's and they had the perfect platform for that.

 

[Tango7]

From a KISS user standpoint based on my experience? Federal Smart Vector.

My FD bought an engine with one installed on the last C8000 series Ford produced by Peirce in 1991. You can see it on the cab in this photo:



Guys would get in and, used to Twinsonics, Aerodynics or other traditional bars would hit the E-Master, the lights would fire up and they'd pull out of the door.

As we later found out, the illumination period was the bar doing a self-diagnostic. It would go to a "standby" mode and await the user's choice of patterns or activity, meaning once they cleared the apron, they had no overhead warning.

After a few times of being observed pulling up on scene with only body lights and rear beacons, the crews got frustrated. I was nowhere into the tech side of bars but IIRC there was no way to keep the brain in standby without bypassing the E-Master, and nobody was willing to dummy wire it, so they pulled the system and went to a Code 3 halogen bar.

Bright? Yes. Multi-featured? Absolutely. Fireman proof? Nope.

 

[LED]

Strobe vista was the worst bar ever. Reflectors that kind of angled up and caught the sunlight completely washing them out.

 

[SNOW SYSTEMS]

I will attest to the theory of vista strobe being a horrific design. In like 2003 i found a sale on eBay, the seller had 2 brand new vistas, strobe or rotator for 400 dollars, i picked the halogen bar. Even at night time it was a mess. It was just such an awkward operating signal, especially with that center random rotator or tcl, and you had rays, halogen flashers and amber stick. Nothing about the lower options where special. It sure didn't do the "whelen SSF" effect. The rotator version with clear domes and filters when brand new where up there with the brightest police bars in that era. I loved the shape personally, good intersection punch.

 

[Master X]

Hands down the Lectric Lites Ranger Strobe Bar Model LL 300. Such a hideous and bulky bar. Some one near me is trying to sell one for $500. LOL I wouldn't give a $1 for it.

 

[1968]

Hands down the Lectric Lites Ranger Strobe Bar Model LL 300. Such a hideous and bulky bar. Some one near me is trying to sell one for $500. LOL I wouldn't give a $1 for it.

I agree that's about as bad as it get's, but I think this thread was about well known companies. This bar is still worse then anything Code 3, Whelen or Federal ever built.

 

[Master X]

I agree that's about as bad as it get's, but I think this thread was about well known companies. This bar is still worse then anything Code 3, Whelen or Federal ever built.

Then I would have to go with the Vista Strobe bar, I don't care for the shape of it but aesthetics aside its a poor performer.

 

[cabunty]

Has nobody mentioned the LED (stationary LED's) vector or whatever it was.

 

[1968]

Has nobody mentioned the LED (stationary LED's) vector or whatever it was.

Don't forget those LED Vistas.