Whelen Fail

[Station 3]

We have a 2010 Tahoe with a Whelen Liberty lightbar and it has only been in use for about 1 year now and well some of the LEDs on the drivers side corner has gone out. Also on the rear of the Tahoe we have some Whelen Avengers and one of the Heads also has about 2 LEDs out with also around 1 year of service we got this unit when i joined the department so thats how i know the age. All the equipment was brand new in the package becuase i remember delivering them to the install shop. Just want to show that just because its a "Name Brand" does not mean its perfect and not gonna burn out like the china stuff.


Thought this thread would be good for the die hard fanatics. I would blame the problem with the water inside the lightbar but that would not be fair since the Avenger lighthead that also burned out is inside the unit and has no contact with water.


WHELEN FAIL pictures by 069751 - Photobucket

 

[Ipuvaepe]

Well of course, no product is perfect. There are always faulty bars out there, the question is how often they are faulty. Just because yours broke doesn't mean that the entire series is not necessarily better than say, STL LEDguy or Voltex.


And when you factor in Customer Service...


My point is, one bar proves absolutely nothing. In fact the only thing that one product can prove or disprove about an entire product line is a statement made about all products equally in the entire line, id est "these bars are infallible and will never ever break" which is a statement flawed in its conception.


Unless of course this is a rant post, in which case I do hope your situation.


And since it's two products that have had failures which I haven't heard many (or rather, anyone) complain about before, could it be an electrical problem with the vehicle?

 

[MEVS06]

No its the WHELEN products that are craptastic. This bar had a shit load of water issues from day one...

 

[Ipuvaepe]

I'm not disputing that, 'tis why I tend not to recommend Whelen products primarily. But OP is extending the performance of one Liberty and one Avenger to all mainstream name brand lights.

 

[WS224]

I will add this. The fire department I work for typically buys an average of 10 new ambulances a year. The batch that came in last year (2011) do not yet have a year on the road. They are all outfitted with Freedom light bars and M series heads in all the usual spots and a few extra. They all have large sections - 25% to 50%, of the LEDs out in multiple heads per ambulance.


Whelen is in luck, bc as long as part of it lights up, most of our "mechanics" say that it works and Whelen will never hear about it. Regardless, their quality has been steadily declining.

 

[fleetcomm]

I have 60 liberty lightbars in service and to this point they have had very few problems. I have had the most problems with external mounted vertex with water intrusion but, whelen has always taken care of them in a timely manner. The problem someone brought up is there shop not whelen, I have had problems with all the major led light makers lights and they have always repaired or replaced the light. There will always be failures with lights I only care if the company will stand behind thier product and take care of the customer.

 

[HalliganHook]

I've never had any major issues with Whelen LED's dying, and in the few instances where I have had an issue it was resolved immediately without any hassle. Keep in mind that Whelen probably ships hundreds of lightbars a month. If a few of them have issues that is expected. You are dealing with sensitive electronics. It happens with every manufacturer of emergency lights. Either way, I would still buy any of the major brands over all of the cheap knockoffs being sold on this message board.

 

[bigcat]

What is the point of this thread? To take WHELEN down a notch?


Send the light heads back, get them fixed for free... or don't.


Then how about you do something about your problem. If a bar continually gets moisture in it, open it up! It's plastic lenses and gaskets with vent holes on the bottom of the endcaps. Something ain't sitting right. That's not even a problem, it's maintanence.

 

[Mrlunchbox]

I noticed a small spot of moisture getting into my liberty the other day. After close inspection it turns out that the end cap gaskets (both of them) were not sitting right. Left a small space on either side for water intrusion. My fault not Whelen since I installed the lenses last.

 

[WS224]

What is the point of this thread? To take WHELEN down a notch?

Send the light heads back, get them fixed for free... or don't.


Then how about you do something about your problem. If a bar continually gets moisture in it, open it up! It's plastic lenses and gaskets with vent holes on the bottom of the endcaps. Something ain't sitting right. That's not even a problem, it's maintanence.

You are right and wrong. To some degree, I can see moisture problems with light bars. Flush mount lights however should not have 5 out of 8 failing within less than a year.


Yes, I commend Whelen for repairing or replacing their products with most of the time no questions asked, but should you have to take an emergency apparatus out of service for days on end because of light failures? The answer is clearly no. As much as people complain about "cheap" products on this board, don't get pissed off when it is about Whelen.


Maybe someone from there will catch wind of this and step their game up. For what Whelen sets their prices at, they should work forever like LEDs are supposed to.

 

[philyumpshus]

I'd like to see some real failure statistics on all the major manufacturers. I like Whelen but I don't think that they're the only option when it comes to lights. Yes, they will have failures and yes, it's a PITA to have to change them out. I think part of the reason that people get pissed over Whelen lights failing is that you pay top dollar for them and they are a big manufacturer. If you see Whelen lights every day and some of them are broken, you remember that. If you see a Tomar light once a month and it works fine, then you'll think that Whelen must have more issues. I'm not knocking Tomar or defending Whelen, just pointing out what happens. If you want another example, look at McDonald's- they're the biggest fast food retailer in the world so they always get blamed about obesity issues, unhealthy food, etc. No one ever raises a peep about Burger King, Wendy's, KFC, or the small chains that sell food that is just as bad for you. A bigger target is easier to hit.


I would like to point out that our 2010 Road Rescue ambulance has only 1 diode working in a front 700 of its 4500 bar and 2 diodes out in a rear 900.

 

[deputychief301]

No matter what product from Whelen, they have always had a problem with moisture in their leds from tir 3, justice bars and now the


libertys. This info I provided came directly from the Michigan Rep and only solution is to hold them accountable by letting the rep come


out and fix the equipment as he has done alot.Hold them accountable....................................


Jim Rogers


deputychief

 

[Outsider]

Believe it or not, the diode failures are not a result of moisture intrusion or anything within Whelen's control. Between the middle of 2009 and the early part of 2010 Whelen recieved a shipment of diodes from the diode manufacturer that had a higher than acceptible failure rate. The result is lightheads that have partial outages. Any manufacture that used this particular diode during this time period is dealing with the same exact issue. Why do you only notice it with Whelen? Simple. Volume. If you take 10% of 500 light fixtures, thats 50 lights. If you take 10% of 50,000 light fixtures, you get 5,000. Which one are you going to notice? The good news is that if you contact your local rep, they will replace them at no charge for the entire 5 years that they are within their warranty. Sure it is a pain, no doubt, but you won't be let down and you will never see Whelen backing away from its warranty policy like some companies on here lately.

 

[fleetcomm]

My department buys between 10-15 vehicles a year for the last 7 years I have bought mostly whelen, sound off signal, and code 3 products. We also do work for other departments that have fed sig led products and I have not seen failures with the led's of any of the manufactures that was more than the others all have had failures and all of them have fixed them. My department stocks led heads for replacements so we don't have down time waiting on replacements and I have never had to replace the heads in our liberty bars but, I know other departments that have.

 

[Station 3]

In a small department like ours putting a brand new unit out of service for something like Lights not working is just not going to happen. We will try to arrange for Whelen to send us replacement parts with out having to put our unit out of service lets see how good this customer service really is.

 

[twodogs603]

Keep in mind that Whelen probably ships hundreds of lightbars a month. .

Whelen ships several thousand lightbars a month.

 

[fleetcomm]

In a small department like ours putting a brand new unit out of service for something like Lights not working is just not going to happen. We will try to arrange for Whelen to send us replacement parts with out having to put our unit out of service lets see how good this customer service really is.

Our whelen distribtor has offered to ship us a lighthead or part to make sure we were taken care of we just have not needed to do that. I can not complain about customer service from any of the major light manufacturers and I am not saying that service is going to be bad from others b/c I have not dealt with them and I don't know.

 

[MEVS06]

I made several calls to whelen a few years ago for my old department for two pairs of lin6 and tir6 lightheads that were on our charger that were holding water. They refused to work with us, we only had two units and could not take one out of service like they wanted. Its just not possible to do that and they wouldnt send the replacement light to the PD. I even asked if they would send one pair at a time. Emailed them pics of the entire lighthead, front, back, on etc. No was the answer. So when it came time to get another unit no whelen was used at all.

 

[ISU_Cyclone]

It's not really a fail since they will replace it for free...no questions asked. I say "Win!"

 

[nluszcz]

They had my CenCom fixed in two days, for free, no special shipping fees, without a receipt. How awesome is that? Yeah, it stinks that it still takes a few days. I'm just a volunteer so me loosing lights for a few days isn't a HUGE deal, but they went WAY farther than I ever expected helping me, and I'm a nobody. If they go this far for me, a guy who buys $200 of stuff per year, on average, I have perfect faith they'll take care of a bigger account and go even farther. None of our equipment on our units have any issues, nor have in the time I've been there.

 

[fire1]

In a small department like ours putting a brand new unit out of service for something like Lights not working is just not going to happen. We will try to arrange for Whelen to send us replacement parts with out having to put our unit out of service lets see how good this customer service really is.

Have you talked to the dealer, that you bought the items from. If they are reputable they should send you replacements. The only out of service time, would be to replace them. I have done this a few times for my customers.

 

[Fast LT1]

I had this happen a couple months ago, on an install i did. Their slimlighter quit working on one side and they have only two cars. Whelen didn't want to send us a replacement and told us we had to send in that unit, leaving the car with grille lights for front warning. So i pulled the slimlighter out of my own POV and let them borrow it for 10 days.

 

[MEVS06]

The only thing the whelen rep knows is she is FREAKING HOTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!! She doesnt know shit about the actual products. I have had Code 3, Star/SVP and FS send out replacements for different customers of mine without having to send in the damaged items until I got the new ones in and installed on the vehicles, that is customer service. I have sent in so much crap to whelen its not even funny anymore.

 

[julietbravosierra]

It's whelen.... What did you expect!

 

[chono]

I don't see much a point of this topic. Every single manufacturer is going to have some of their products fail. Just send it in and get it fixed.

 

[C420sailor]

I bet I can find plenty of FedSig/Code 3/etc products that have shit the bed too.


Shit happens. Quit your bitching and either send the lights in to be replaced or don't buy Whelen.

 

[FireGuru]

I myself have seen this across the board. That is why I'm not impressed with LED systems. What I have seen is like what Station 3 has shown, not total failure but parts of it not working. As a customer I know I get agrivatated when my "stuff" doesn't work right.


If it were up to me (part of it being old school to) give me by PARS and let 'em spin baby!! :thumbsup:


And 3, that was a good heads up, you know most guys don't even notice that. But you can bet all, well most anyhow, us eLightbars guys would see that a mile away!!

 

[Klein]

This thread has no real point. No product in the universe is perfect and some will be defective. Nobody claimed Whelen or the other big names are flawless. Utilize their warranty and customer service and get over it.

 

[kitn1mcc]

Let me put it this way i have Whelen Light heads mounted on Trucks that take way more abuse than a car and they still work most were installed in 08,09,10 and they work great these are on both plow and non plow dump trucks

 

[FireEMSPolice]

As others have said, all products have flaws. Garza is probably trying to blow steam off.


Also, sometimes its not possible to send product in. Doing so puts small agencies in a pinch by having a vehicle out of service longer then it would to swap the bad gear for the good. Its much easier to get the new stuff sent to you where you can swap in much less time and send the defective stuff back.

 

[WS224]

Keep in mind, these are all off of the SAME ambulance that is less than a year old and there are about 10 more just like it. Everything circled is off multiple leds that are out, they are not off due to the pattern. What you see is all you get.


Regardless of their replacement policy, this is piss poor.

 

[C420sailor]

Keep in mind, these are all off of the SAME ambulance that is less than a year old and there are about 10 more just like it. Everything circled is off multiple leds that are out, they are not off due to the pattern. What you see is all you get.

Regardless of their replacement policy, this is piss poor.

Shit happens.


Did you send them back to Whelen for replacement?

 

[ISU_Cyclone]

Every time someone posts something broken from Whelen, I chuckle because there is a 100% chance it will be replaced for free.

 

[MEVS06]

Good luck with them actually making it easy to get them replaced, oh and they dont always replace items. A Deputy U.S. Marshal I know has been fighting with whelen to replace his CMHSL leds replaced for over two months. I guess there shippment of leds from china havent made it yet...

 

[ISU_Cyclone]

Good luck with them actually making it easy to get them replaced, oh and they dont always replace items. A Deputy U.S. Marshal I know has been fighting with whelen to replace his CMHSL leds replaced for over two months. I guess there shippment of leds from china havent made it yet...

If the parts haven't arrived yet, then how do you expect them to replace his CMHSL? Seems like they aren't refusing, but delaying until it is possible.

 

[C420sailor]

If the parts haven't arrived yet, then how do you expect them to replace his CMHSL? Seems like they aren't refusing, but delaying until it is possible.

I think he was trying to make a crack at the fact that Whelen (along with most every other company out there) uses Chinese LEDs.

 

[WS224]

Every time someone posts something broken from Whelen, I chuckle because there is a 100% chance it will be replaced for free.

Chuckle all you want. Maybe you looked at he pictures and didn't read. I know Wheln will replace th light heads. That's gret, but it isn't that easy. This ambulance averages about 12-15 runs a day. There are about 10 other ambulances with the same shitty light head problems that also share about the same call volume.


So what is your chuckleheaded recommendation? You find it acceptable that a third of your ambulance fleet needs to be put out of service so you can mail in bad heads and wait for them to ship new ones back?


Who cares if they'll replace them, the point of the matter is a product with an advertised service life of 100,000 hours and a premium price should never need replaced. Ten new vehicles, all with half of the warning packages not functioning properly should not be acceptable. I bet if they were yours, your chuckle head would be upset as well.

 

[ISU_Cyclone]

Chuckle all you want. Maybe you looked at he pictures and didn't read. I know Wheln will replace th light heads. That's gret, but it isn't that easy. This ambulance averages about 12-15 runs a day. There are about 10 other ambulances with the same shitty light head problems that also share about the same call volume.

So what is your chuckleheaded recommendation? You find it acceptable that a third of your ambulance fleet needs to be put out of service so you can mail in bad heads and wait for them to ship new ones back?


Who cares if they'll replace them, the point of the matter is a product with an advertised service life of 100,000 hours and a premium price should never need replaced. Ten new vehicles, all with half of the warning packages not functioning properly should not be acceptable. I bet if they were yours, your chuckle head would be upset as well.

I'm sure Whelen would be more than happy to make accommodations for a large department like Memphis Fire. Did you investigate the problem at all? Bad batch? Install issue?

 

[WS224]

I'm sure Whelen would be more than happy to make accommodations for a large department like Memphis Fire. Did you investigate the problem at all? Bad batch? Install issue?

No sir. I don't even ride those things, let alone work on them.


The bigger part of the problem is that the people that do ride them don't really care if they work or not and the people that work on them think that "a few" led's out doesn't matter.........it's fine.


If it were up to me, they would be working.

 

[Tony63031]

We have a Whelen Freedom LED bar on our fire truck and last year during the good Friday tornado here. We were responding to calls all over for people trapped and a branch felt and smacked our lightbar as the truck was moving. The lightbar took the impact and the only damage was a lense that cracked. Granted, all the other lights on our truck are Code 3 ( they donated the light so ), but just figured I'd share about our Whelen experience.