Whelen Gen2 CANTROL issue

[Devenob1]

Hello everyone, have a issue hoping someone may be able to help me here. See video attached for visual but..

I have a gen 2 Cantrol with a input expansion module, with a new 15 button handheld controller and a whelen 100w speaker, no light bar, Only 12 ions being run on it.

the issue started when I got a single flash red error LED, everything still worked though. After driving around and getting back in my truck and starting it up I checked to see if the LED went off. Well now I get a power LED, no middle led at all and still a red single flash LED. The remote will click but doesn’t activate anything making it essentially useless. Iv cycled it, pulled all power, uploaded a new program and a blank program, all fuses and connections are good as well.

I then went to my truck this morning after sitting all night start it up...and boom NO errors at all green power led and green middle led and NO red error light...works fine, remote fires up and controls everything. Well after driving to the hardware store and coming back to my truck I start it up and ...back to square 1 same error crap green power LED, no middle led and single flash error led. Remote doesn’t work ect. This entire thing happens everyday... anyone have any clue!? Any help is appreciated

 

[FusionWolf]

This may be totally not it but I had the exact same issue with my Gen 2. And what it turned out to be was that I was not using a compatible control head. Something about 4 wire vs 8 wire or something communication cord between the control head and Cantrol. I swapped out the head for a verified compatible controller and my problems went away. But I was experiencing these exact same issues that you were

 

[Devenob1]

This may be totally not it but I had the exact same issue with my Gen 2. And what it turned out to be was that I was not using a compatible control head. Something about 4 wire vs 8 wire or something communication cord between the control head and Cantrol. I swapped out the head for a verified compatible controller and my problems went away. But I was experiencing these exact same issues that you were

I was afraid of that, I guess I’ll have to go back to that old handheld

 

[FusionWolf]

I was afraid of that, I guess I’ll have to go back to that old handheld

A lot of control heads are compatible with the Cantrol. I would just verify with whelen (actually don't because they told me my original sapphire control head would work for the cantrol and it didnt) I verified with strobes n more that the control head compatibility and the confirmed it didnt.
Confirm the parts are compatible before giving up hope.
For me a new control head resolved all issues I was having both with the control head and my 16 output expansion module

 

[FusionWolf]

Another thing to toss in because I had an issue with carbide as well that was very similar. Check the Cat6 link between your handheld unit and the expansion cable. I found that when the Cat6 connector wasn't compatible with power-over-ethernet that it resulted in very similar symptoms. If that's the case then a simple Power over ethernet connector should resolve all issues

 

[Devenob1]

Another thing to toss in because I had an issue with carbide as well that was very similar. Check the Cat6 link between your handheld unit and the expansion cable. I found that when the Cat6 connector wasn't compatible with power-over-ethernet that it resulted in very similar symptoms. If that's the case then a simple Power over ethernet connector should resolve all issues

How would you hook that thing up?

 

[FusionWolf]

How would you hook that thing up?

It's very simply just a connector that goes between the long Cat6 cable from the Cantrol to your control head that both male ends plug into. Some cat6 connectors like that do not support 12v and at a max can transmit about 2v. Worth a try seeing if that fixes the issue. Was a very quick easy connector that allowed my carbide to work flawlessly.

 

[Devenob1]

It's very simply just a connector that goes between the long Cat6 cable from the Cantrol to your control head that both male ends plug into. Some cat6 connectors like that do not support 12v and at a max can transmit about 2v. Worth a try seeing if that fixes the issue. Was a very quick easy connector that allowed my carbide to work flawlessly.

Anyway you could post a link to one on eBay or something please?

 

[FusionWolf]

Anyway you could post a link to one on eBay or something please?

I haven't found a link to one but I will post a pic of mine tomorrow for ya

 

[Devenob1]

I haven't found a link to one but I will post a pic of mine tomorrow for ya

Ok! I guess in the meantime I’ll plug directly into the cantrol with the remote with no extension and see if my issues stop

 

[FusionWolf]

So it's this black connector. This has to be able to support power over ethernet for the control head to function. You can figure out if this is the issue by plugging your handheld directly into the cantrol.

 

[Devenob1]

View attachment 224075
So it's this black connector. This has to be able to support power over ethernet for the control head to function. You can figure out if this is the issue by plugging your handheld directly into the cantrol.

Well I plugged directly into the CANTROL and it’s working now. Iv run a bunch of errands turning my truck off and on a bunch and it’s fired up every time. Still get the slow single red error but whatever. I looked at the connector for the cords and it said cat5e? Is the controller a cat 6 cord? Maybe the extension cord is a cat 5e ?

 

[FusionWolf]

I got to be honest I'm not entirely sure the difference of the wires. My friend who does networking though explained to me that essentially if that connector isn't rated for power over ethernet that you can burn up that PCB board that's inside the connector or it simply won't allow the proper voltage to go through to totally power the unit

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Something like this SHOULD be the proper connector. I personally am using an extension that says its cat6. The connector should be your failure point however

 

[shues]

View attachment 224075
So it's this black connector. This has to be able to support power over ethernet for the control head to function. You can figure out if this is the issue by plugging your handheld directly into the cantrol.

Edit: This post is incorrect, so I've changed it to small text in hopes of preventing anybody from relying on its content and becoming misinformed in the future.

The pictured coupler is appears to a rollover coupler, where the coupler reverses the order of the pins. Note that the cables' detent tabs are on opposite sides of the coupler.

With this style of coupler, pin 1 on one cable gets connected to pin 8 on the other, pin 2 of one goes to pin 7 of the other, and so on. A rollover coupler is critical in when coupling two telephone patch cords, as telephone patch cords themselves are also rollover cables.

Instead of a rollover coupler in your application, you should be able to use juat about any straight-through coupler.

 

[FusionWolf]

The pictured coupler is appears to a rollover coupler, where the coupler reverses the order of the pins. Note that the cables' detent tabs are on opposite sides of the coupler.

With this style of coupler, pin 1 on one cable gets connected to pin 8 on the other, pin 2 of one goes to pin 7 of the other, and so on. A rollover coupler is critical in when coupling two telephone patch cords, as telephone patch cords themselves are also rollover cables.

Instead of a rollover coupler in your application, you should be able to use juat about any straight-through coupler.

I thought it was a rollover coupler as well but it's just odd pin orientation that it does a crossover like that. A straight through coupler should work just fine as that is what I use on a carbide system that had a very similar if you hear this.
Testing it- it was a B to B connector or at least that's the configuration I had my Cat6 wires pinned. That connector works perfectly with that carbide and cantrol system. the picture shown is the connector that comes from Whelen

 

[shues]

I stand corrected! That is definitely a straight-through coupler. I have one here and have tested it for continuity to confirm. My previous post is entirely wrong. I apologize for confusing the issue!

 

[FusionWolf]

I stand corrected! That is definitely a straight-through coupler. I have one here and have tested it for continuity to confirm. My previous post is entirely wrong. I apologize for confusing the issue!

It is interesting for sure they way they oriented the plugs. Not sure why they did it that way. The design of the coupler definitely leads you to believe that it's a rollover

 

[Devenob1]

Well I’m not sure if it was my cables not being pushed into the coupler all the way or the coupler itself. Or the wire holder I had the controller threaded through pinching the cables but it’s been working fine for a couple days now

 

[Nolines]

Knock wood

 

[baraban]

I got to be honest I'm not entirely sure the difference of the wires. My friend who does networking though explained to me that essentially if that connector isn't rated for power over ethernet that you can burn up that PCB board that's inside the connector or it simply won't allow the proper voltage to go through to totally power the unit...

The difference is broad and not that simple, but I'll try to simplify.
In general, the higher the CAT# - the more improved technology is used. That includes the size of the copper strands(AWG), cable sheathing, pair of wires shielding, twisted wires, and obviously the length of the cable as well. CAT5 are possible to use for POE but it's more limited than higher CAT cables.



As far as a difference between Crossover and Straight ethernet connection is whether you are connecting devices over a network device or without it. Basically, it has to do with RX & TX communication. If you are using a network device like a router or a switch, Straight through cable is perfect. That way device's TX wires are communicating straight to the router's RX wires.
But when you are connecting for example a computer straight to another computer w/o any switch or router, you need crossed over cable so one computer's TX is going straight to the second computer's RX wires and vise-versa.

 

[Tango7]

As a resi/commercial spark forced to dabble in networking, I was about to offer my $0.02 when I saw:
Great explanation.