National Light Laws

[ark_firefighter]

I've been thinking and maybe someone can shed some light on this...


Why can't we make lighting colors standard across the U.S. ?


Police: Blue "hence the blue line thing"


Fire: Red


EMS: Red


Tow: Amber


Civil Defense / Office of Emergency Management / Homeland Security: Red/Blue





All the Amber to the rear that you want


All the Clear to the front that you want


NO Clear rear PERIOD!


And drop Purple and Green


Why has no one pushed for this ? And why are some states to lazy to relise that volunteers need lights and sirens to respond quickly ... hence volunteering to save lives... not show up late and be blamed for not being there in a timely manor.

 

[ff_emt_820]

I would support this exact "set up" in a heart beat (provided that volunteers have siren in conjunction with red). I just do not know how we would need to contact to even find out about pushing for this (NTSB, USDOT, NFPA, etc...). Can anyone shed some light on where to begin?

 

[ark_firefighter]

Yea Sirens a must for volunteers...


And lets put county OEM's in charge of management of the "regs"


Everyone gets certified and is issued a card like a Drivers Licenes with name, dob, address, department, dept ID etc info and make a national data base...if you break the law or abuse it licenes is revoked ...

 

[HILO]

Because each state is able to write their own laws. Think how long it took to have mandatory seatbelt laws in ever state.


Besides, it is pretty common to understand that you yeild row to red, or blue lights. And it is your responsibility as a driver to know the laws in a state you are driving in. Some states do not allow radar detectors, or things hanging on your rvm, no matter where your from.

 

[Fast LT1]

You're a moron if you think security people won't take advantage of using r/b! And thos topic is a broken fucking record already!

 

[ark_firefighter]

You're a moron if you think security people won't take advantage of using r/b! And thos topic is a broken fucking record already!

I think there is a diffrence between a Police Officer and a Rent-A-Cop...


if you don't like the tune just walk away

 

[MEVS06]

This has been posted many many times. In all honesty all EMERGENCY services should use red and blue period. Simple minded sheep dont know the difference.

 

[dg0223]

The reason you don't see a national push for standardizing light laws is because there is little, to no, money to be made from it. Special interests and lobbyists don't have any money to make from a national emergency light law.


Also, standardizing lights means several departments across the nation would have to spend money in becoming compliant when there is little money to spend on things of importance, as it is. Imagine having to replace every lightbar, or lightbar components, in California because police cars now had to have blue lights all around. California can't even pay their employees, much less spend thousands of dollars on an unneccesary light change.


I apologize in advance for the comments I'm about to make, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get flamed for what I'm going to say, but so be it. What does it matter what emergency light laws are in every corner of the United States? Who cares if volunteer firefighters are allowed to have a single blue light in one direction, and a red light in the other direction? Who cares if a certain police agency is using blue to the rear and red and clear to the front?


The bottom line is: If you're a law enforcement agent, firefighter, or EMT, you can use emergency lights and sirens. Do you have to know what the laws are in your neck of the woods? Yes, you do. Other than that, you shouldn't have red or blue emergency lights on your vehicle. If you escort tractor trailers, plow snow, drive around in a security guard car, or chase tornados, you should tread very carefully when it comes to driving around in something with emergency lights or sirens. If you have to make an excuse, or try to justify why, you have emergency lights on your car, you probably shouldn't have them in your car.


I collect lightbars. I don't mount them on my truck. I don't have any reason to have lights mounted in my truck. You can call these people whackers, wackers, wannabes, or whatever you want. They're just delusional and mentally unbalanced if they think they should be driving around with lights on their cars.


I like coming to the site, because I find cheap parts for my lightbars, I like looking at pictures of some of the awesome restoration projects, and I actually enjoy talking to some boardmembers. I don't understand why everything has to deevolve into some pissing contest over laws you probably can't interpret or understand. Some members are so negative on the board, and think they're always right. Everyone should take a step back and stop worrying about winning a pissing contest over the internet. I know this is too idealistic, and you all may think I'm full of shit, but I think everything would be better if we just got along and enjoyed the posts about lightbars.

 

[chono]

This has been posted many many times. In all honesty all EMERGENCY services should use red and blue period. Simple minded sheep dont know the difference.

1+ More visible


and in Iowa all emergency services can and many do.

 

[litning]

Think how long it took to have mandatory seatbelt laws in ever state.

um, sorry, it's not in every state yet

 

[LRGJr72]

This has been posted many many times. In all honesty all EMERGENCY services should use red and blue period. Simple minded sheep dont know the difference.

Nationalized light-color rules would infringe on states' already compromised rights. But I DO love the idea of RED/BLUE on ALL emergency vehicles. Red shows better in the day and blue stands out better at night.

 

[rofowacker]

Security / rent a cop / mall cop / police wanna be's can have all green..

 

[firefighter7017]

The reason you don't see a national push for standardizing light laws is because there is little, to no, money to be made from it. Special interests and lobbyists don't have any money to make from a national emergency light law.

Also, standardizing lights means several departments across the nation would have to spend money in becoming compliant when there is little money to spend on things of importance, as it is. Imagine having to replace every lightbar, or lightbar components, in California because police cars now had to have blue lights all around. California can't even pay their employees, much less spend thousands of dollars on an unneccesary light change.


I apologize in advance for the comments I'm about to make, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get flamed for what I'm going to say, but so be it. What does it matter what emergency light laws are in every corner of the United States? Who cares if volunteer firefighters are allowed to have a single blue light in one direction, and a red light in the other direction? Who cares if a certain police agency is using blue to the rear and red and clear to the front?


The bottom line is: If you're a law enforcement agent, firefighter, or EMT, you can use emergency lights and sirens. Do you have to know what the laws are in your neck of the woods? Yes, you do. Other than that, you shouldn't have red or blue emergency lights on your vehicle. If you escort tractor trailers, plow snow, drive around in a security guard car, or chase tornados, you should tread very carefully when it comes to driving around in something with emergency lights or sirens. If you have to make an excuse, or try to justify why, you have emergency lights on your car, you probably shouldn't have them in your car.


I collect lightbars. I don't mount them on my truck. I don't have any reason to have lights mounted in my truck. You can call these people whackers, wackers, wannabes, or whatever you want. They're just delusional and mentally unbalanced if they think they should be driving around with lights on their cars.


I like coming to the site, because I find cheap parts for my lightbars, I like looking at pictures of some of the awesome restoration projects, and I actually enjoy talking to some boardmembers. I don't understand why everything has to deevolve into some pissing contest over laws you probably can't interpret or understand. Some members are so negative on the board, and think they're always right. Everyone should take a step back and stop worrying about winning a pissing contest over the internet. I know this is too idealistic, and you all may think I'm full of shit, but I think everything would be better if we just got along and enjoyed the posts about lightbars.

I agree with just about everything you said. While red/blue is more visible than single colors, which has been proven by many studies, there is no cost efficent way to convert the entire country to this. And honestly, what would it help? I'm sure theres never been an accident where at the conclusion of the investigation, it was determined if they had been running a blue, red, clear, or whatever color light, then the collosion could've been avoided. The topic is only important to people like us who frequent forums about emergency lighting. Everyone knows to yeild to red or blue, so I see no prevelent need for everyone to have both. I also can not see why volunteers MUST have sirens. I'm a volunteer, and my state doesn't allow them, and we get to the calls and put the fires out in a timely manner. There are states all over the country that don't allow lights of any kind for their volunteers, and they out their fires out just fine. There's an exception to every rule obviously, but for the most part, changing the entire country to red/blue is just a waste of money in an already cash-strapped society.

 

[Pursuit]

I don’t believe that 'every' emergency vehicle should be equipped with both red, and blue lights. Unfortunately, for all of the hard working, and honest people in the public safety field there are always one, or two bad apples. I would hate to see a “bad apple” Volunteer Fireman take advantage of a circumstance just because he has the exact same light setup as a State Trooper, or vise versa.

 

[MEVS06]

My point is that the simple minded people in this country dont know the difference in colors.

 

[HILO]

um, sorry, it's not in every state yet

Thank you!

 

[Hollywood]

Pass. No desire to run all blue on my patrol car. I'll keep my red and blue thank you.

 

[Klein]

I would hate to see a “bad apple” Volunteer Fireman take advantage of a circumstance just because he has the exact same light setup as a State Trooper, or vise versa.

There are bad apples in every company. A volunteer firefighter, EMT is just as important as a LEO. Red and blue is the most visible setup and an emergency response for both need to be the safest as possible so why not be visible with the best possible light setup.


Oh and it is time to lock this B up. This has been talked about so many times.

 

[Support Services]

Than we can get a National Police Force to enforce the law. I think each state should and will reatin control over their state.

 

[nerdly_dood]

How about this:


- Every emergency vehicle, POVs included, can use any combination or single color of flashing red or blue warning lights and a siren. That's right, a fire truck could use all-blue just as easily as a police car could use all-red, or a POV can use red/blue.


- At least 50% of lights visible to the rear must be amber while the vehicle is stopped, in addition to any traffic advisors. Flashing amber warning lights visible to the front and side may only be activated while the vehicle is stopped.


- No more than 4 white flashing lights may be visible in any one direction. Flashing headlights each count as one flashing white light. No white flashing lights may be visible to the rear. White flashing lights may only be used in addition to red or blue flashing lights.


- Green lights=command center, purple lights=funeral, amber lights require a permit, red/blue lights and a siren require a different permit, yadda yadda yadda.


^^ That's the important part. I see no need to specify whether a vehicle is a police vehicle or a fire truck, POV or whatever, by the color of the warning lights. All that matters is that people pull to the side of the road and stop to let them by. I know that since red lights are best in the day and blue is best at night, it's best to have both, but I'd prefer that the option remain available to use a single color if desired.


Some others could be added as well, but they're not as important:


- Steady-burning blue cruise lights may be used as passive warning on emergency vehicles. Steady-burning red lights visible to the front of the vehicle may be used as active warning in addition to other flashing lights. Vehicles with a permit for amber warning lights may use amber steady-burning cruise lights visible to the front and red steady-burning cruise lights visible to the rear as passive warning.


- The number of red flashing warning lights visible to the rear may not exceed the number of red flashing warning lights visible to the front of the vehicle.


- POVs may have a maximum of 4 flashing warning lights visible in any direction, and up to 2 steady-burning red warning lights visible to the front.


- Rent-a-cops can use flashing amber lights or steady-burning blue lights.

 

[theroofable]

How about this:

- Every emergency vehicle, POVs included, can use any combination or single color of flashing red or blue warning lights and a siren. That's right, a fire truck could use all-blue just as easily as a police car could use all-red, or a POV can use red/blue.


- At least 50% of lights visible to the rear must be amber while the vehicle is stopped, in addition to any traffic advisors. Flashing amber warning lights visible to the front and side may only be activated while the vehicle is stopped.


- No more than 4 white flashing lights may be visible in any one direction. Flashing headlights each count as one flashing white light. No white flashing lights may be visible to the rear. White flashing lights may only be used in addition to red or blue flashing lights.


- Green lights=command center, purple lights=funeral, amber lights require a permit, red/blue lights and a siren require a different permit, yadda yadda yadda.


^^ That's the important part. I see no need to specify whether a vehicle is a police vehicle or a fire truck, POV or whatever, by the color of the warning lights. All that matters is that people pull to the side of the road and stop to let them by. I know that since red lights are best in the day and blue is best at night, it's best to have both, but I'd prefer that the option remain available to use a single color if desired.


Some others could be added as well, but they're not as important:


- Steady-burning blue cruise lights may be used as passive warning on emergency vehicles. Steady-burning red lights visible to the front of the vehicle may be used as active warning in addition to other flashing lights. Vehicles with a permit for amber warning lights may use amber steady-burning cruise lights visible to the front and red steady-burning cruise lights visible to the rear as passive warning.


- The number of red flashing warning lights visible to the rear may not exceed the number of red flashing warning lights visible to the front of the vehicle.


- POVs may have a maximum of 4 flashing warning lights visible in any direction, and up to 2 steady-burning red warning lights visible to the front.


- Rent-a-cops can use flashing amber lights or steady-burning blue lights.

I like it. Not a good idea to limit the number of lights though. It gets confusing when, a 4 head stick and a dash light would be legal, but 4 grill lights and a dash light would be illegal. :bonk:Also, many fire companies and ems squads use red and blue, which is why this one is better. The main thing is to keep unauthorized people away from lights, not emergency personnel.

 

[CHIEFOPS]

I don't see anything in Article 1 of the Constitution that gives the Legislative branch the authority to tell states how to govern their own roads.

 

[RolnCode3]

I think what we have in CA is perfectly fine.


And you can guarantee that if CA's requirements became invalid (like solid red not required on all emergency vehicles), you'd get no buy-in from CA. We'd just take our ball and go home.

 

[nerdly_dood]

I like it. Not a good idea to limit the number of lights though. It gets confusing when, a 4 head stick and a dash light would be legal, but 4 grill lights and a dash light would be illegal. :bonk:Also, many fire companies and ems squads use red and blue, which is why this one is better. The main thing is to keep unauthorized people away from lights, not emergency personnel.

Another thing that oughta be in there is that a 4-head LED stick would probably count as 4, not 1, depending on the flash pattern. A 'light' would be considered as the smallest unit of glowy-bits that flashes as a single unit. So if the 4-head stick flashes each lighthead as a single unit, then it's 4 lights (such as alternating -O-O / O-O-) but if it flashes all at once (as in, OOOO / ----) then it'd be one light. Also, if a group of LEDs sold as one lighthead (such as a LINZ6) has a split flash pattern, then that would count each part that flashes separately as a separate light.


LEDs make this much more difficult, as with halogen and strobe it'd simply be counting the individual light bulbs or strobe tubes, but counting a single LED as one light would basically prohibit them from POV use. The same goes for lightbars - an 8-head Liberty wouldn't count as 1 lightbar, it counts as 8 lights, and a 2-rotator Highlighter counts as 2. The idea here is to avoid unnecessarily excessive use of lights. My philosophy is that 'less is more' - an individual lighthead is more effective individually if there are fewer of them. Wikipedia's article on diminishing returns helps communicate that idea.


Either way, the federal government has no right to regulate such things, but it'd still be a good idea to have a law like that in every state.


As for California doing its own thing, it wouldn't necessarily violate those rules - a Cali-standard light setup would fit just fine with my rules, it's just that mine are more permissive with regards to the use of blue lights, less permissive with regards to the use of amber lights, and steady-burning red lights aren't mandatory.

 

[Jarred J.]

:explode: NOT THIS AGAIN!!!!!!!!! :explode:

 

[BackYardSales]

How about this:

- Every emergency vehicle, POVs included, can use any combination or single color of flashing red or blue warning lights and a siren. That's right, a fire truck could use all-blue just as easily as a police car could use all-red, or a POV can use red/blue.


- Rent-a-cops can use flashing amber lights or steady-burning blue lights.

NO!!! No Blue at all on Fire and definitely not on rent-a-cops.

I don't see anything in Article 1 of the Constitution that gives the Legislative branch the authority to tell states how to govern their own roads.

Well, since Federal funds paid for the Interstate system and most of the roads designated with US-XX numbers, I'd say the Feds could have some say in colors used on those roads.


And whoever said the county OEM should have 'more power' [channeling Tim Taylor] has never met our county OEM turd. Dude thinks he's God already.

 

[Cam]

Another thing that oughta be in there is that a 4-head LED stick would probably count as 4, not 1, depending on the flash pattern. A 'light' would be considered as the smallest unit of glowy-bits that flashes as a single unit. So if the 4-head stick flashes each lighthead as a single unit, then it's 4 lights (such as alternating -O-O / O-O-) but if it flashes all at once (as in, OOOO / ----) then it'd be one light. Also, if a group of LEDs sold as one lighthead (such as a LINZ6) has a split flash pattern, then that would count each part that flashes separately as a separate light.

LEDs make this much more difficult, as with halogen and strobe it'd simply be counting the individual light bulbs or strobe tubes, but counting a single LED as one light would basically prohibit them from POV use. The same goes for lightbars - an 8-head Liberty wouldn't count as 1 lightbar, it counts as 8 lights, and a 2-rotator Highlighter counts as 2. The idea here is to avoid unnecessarily excessive use of lights. My philosophy is that 'less is more' - an individual lighthead is more effective individually if there are fewer of them. Wikipedia's article on diminishing returns helps communicate that idea.


Either way, the federal government has no right to regulate such things, but it'd still be a good idea to have a law like that in every state.


As for California doing its own thing, it wouldn't necessarily violate those rules - a Cali-standard light setup would fit just fine with my rules, it's just that mine are more permissive with regards to the use of blue lights, less permissive with regards to the use of amber lights, and steady-burning red lights aren't mandatory.

All I can say is WTF. Why in the hell would we need a law that? The fact that you even need to add into it that a four head LED lightbar counts as four light or maybe one light or what the hell ever should say it all; way to complicated. Who cares? Who cares what flash pattern is used. So a 8 head Liberty counts as 8 lights and a Highlighter counts as 2. Great, what's the point? Not that any new law is need but if it was need to would be to simplify things, not put anybody that read it other then the members of this board into a coma.

 

[Cam]

All I can say is WTF. Why in the hell would we need a law that? The fact that you even need to add into it that a four head LED lightbar counts as four light or maybe one light or what the hell ever should say it all; way to complicated. Who cares? Who cares what flash pattern is used. So a 8 head Liberty counts as 8 lights and a Highlighter counts as 2. Great, what's the point? Not that any new law is need but if it was need to would be to simplify things, not put anybody that read it other then the members of this board into a coma.

Also aren't you the one that had the other goofy lighting law idea that ban strobe beacons and like one brand of lightbars?

 

[RolnCode3]

As for California doing its own thing, it wouldn't necessarily violate those rules - a Cali-standard light setup would fit just fine with my rules, it's just that mine are more permissive with regards to the use of blue lights, less permissive with regards to the use of amber lights, and steady-burning red lights aren't mandatory.

you're right. I thought about that after I posted, but figured the subtlety would get lost in the noise. Solid burning wouldn't need to be required - just allowed (the opposite of what I said).

 

[Klein]

NO!!! No Blue at all on Fire...

I ask...why is that?


Do police have more pressing-emergency-responses than Fire and EMS thus LEOs need the blue to indicate "I am a police officer, you know this because I have blue and red lights so please move faster"?

 

[nerdly_dood]

All I can say is WTF. Why in the hell would we need a law that? The fact that you even need to add into it that a four head LED lightbar counts as four light or maybe one light or what the hell ever should say it all; way to complicated. Who cares? Who cares what flash pattern is used. So a 8 head Liberty counts as 8 lights and a Highlighter counts as 2. Great, what's the point? Not that any new law is need but if it was need to would be to simplify things, not put anybody that read it other then the members of this board into a coma.

Limits on the number of lights for POVs was a secondary consideration, though, it's just not as important as the first 4 points.

 

[C420sailor]

This thread is f*cking stupid.

 

[Jarred J.]

This thread is f*cking stupid.

+1


:beat_deadhorse:

 

[rwo978]

+1

:beat_deadhorse:

+2


:beat_deadhorse: :beat_deadhorse:

 

[pdk9]

I've been thinking and maybe someone can shed some light on this...

Why can't we make lighting colors standard across the U.S. ?


Police: Blue "hence the blue line thing"


Fire: Red


EMS: Red


Tow: Amber


Civil Defense / Office of Emergency Management / Homeland Security: Red/Blue





All the Amber to the rear that you want


All the Clear to the front that you want


NO Clear rear PERIOD!


And drop Purple and Green


Why has no one pushed for this ? And why are some states to lazy to relise that volunteers need lights and sirens to respond quickly ... hence volunteering to save lives... not show up late and be blamed for not being there in a timely manor.

I totally agree that there should be a nationwide standard of Blue for LE, Red/Clear for Fire/EMS, Red/Blue for Federal LE, and Removing Green (except as a command beacon color). I personally think that plenty of people have pushed for this, but that most states don't want to go ahead and actually make changes to the laws regarding colors, due to the costs that each fire/ems/LEO agency would endure in changing over their apparatus and the POVs of members (IMO).


With regards to the sirens, I think that the concern of states that don't allow vollies to have sirens in their POVs and respond code 3 is that they feel that there'd be a lot more accidents if they allowed Vollies to have them to respond to calls. I personally think there definitely would be more accidents, but if I were a state legislator, I would make stipulations & requirements for Vollies that want to apply for a siren permit in order to minimize this, since some states don't really enforce any requirements for vollies to have lights/sirens in their vehicles:


--they must get signature of approval from their fire chief and get a signature from the local LE agency


--they must have completed a State EVOC course


--they must be 21 YO and have been driving for X amount of years (so you don't have idiot explorers that have been driving for 1 year that are driving RLS like maniacs)


--and they must have a clean driving history.


I would also have each vollie re-apply every few years, so that the state would be able to see if their statuses in any of these categories changed. Yes, it'd be a pain, but IMHO it would help prevent the few psycho/idiot drivers with RLS privileges from making the rest of us look bad

 

[bwoodruff]

I don’t believe that 'every' emergency vehicle should be equipped with both red, and blue lights. Unfortunately, for all of the hard working, and honest people in the public safety field there are always one, or two bad apples. I would hate to see a “bad apple” Volunteer Fireman take advantage of a circumstance just because he has the exact same light setup as a State Trooper, or vise versa.

This happens already. It is illegal to impersonate an officer whether you are allowed to have the lights or not. There are still people who do it.

 

[jrfive0]

Just What the heck is everyones problem with white to the rear ? Please educate me....I've been a cop here in Jersey for 10 years, and nearly every police car in every jurisdiction that ive ever seen and every single state police car has some form of flashing white strobe in its reverse lights or a white tir3 mounted on the back license plate...I have never seen or heard, of ANY, crash or other adverse incident attributed to "white lights to the rear"..... and especially being in the lovely liberal republic of new jersey where we just got tasers (in which the policy is super restrictive and a joke to use anyway here) can barely search cars due to repeated liberal state supreme court decisions, and nearly no citizen can carry a concealed gun, So as opposed to where anyone else lives on this board, i think my state would've seen such a lawsuit or banned their use already....just sayin

 

[nerdly_dood]

Flashing backup lights or hideaways in the backup lights aren't a big deal, it's when the car's got (for example) a 50/50 red and white lightbar that it gets to be a problem. Having just one white light visible to the rear in the lightbar isn't a big deal, but there's a point where lights that are bright enough to draw attention become bright enough to decrease visibility - white lights do this far too easily, so it's best to put an amber filter in back to avoid that.

 

[MJDNRP-6885]

Than we can get a National Police Force to enforce the law.

We can't even get our government to enforce it's own laws...


ie... Illegal Immigration


And I'm not just talking about people from south of the border either.

 

[EMT-BLS]

NO!!! No Blue at all on Fire

Because it clashes with the red paint! :haha: