No Love for White Lights

FatherOfFour

Member
Nov 4, 2012
134
Indiana
car54 said:
Here's a penny for thought. Lately around here its been foggy where school and public transit buses use there white rear beacons to be seen. Why not use say white lights in this scenerio?

My only thought on that is they could very well blind you. Think about driving in heavy for w/ your high beams on, the light reflects off the fog and blinds you. I would think that in that situation forward facing white would just "bounce" off the fog and blind you. The school buses (around here at least) have the white beacon on top of the bus where it doesn't affect the driver's vision, and because it's SOOOO high off the road compared to a normal vehicle it's not flashing directly into any other driver's face.....
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,989
Northwest Ohio
car54 said:
Here's a penny for thought. Lately around here its been foggy where school and public transit buses use there white rear beacons to be seen. Why not use say white lights in this scenerio?

The idea behind the white strobe to the rear of school buses is a totally different concept. These are set to a slow high brightness flash usually. They are a navigational type beacon really, designed to ping their position in several different visibility scenarios. When setup as warning lights (higher flash rates) white light becomes overpowering and distracting easily.
 

DJIceman97

Member
Dec 22, 2012
357
Northeast Kentucky
I have two clear lights on my truck, one is my red/clear L18 dash light, and the other is my strobes (turn signals and reverse lights)...not terribly bright but they catch your attention. When I go to LAW I'll have the clear LAW's set up to shut off on their own switch.
 

Kd8bao

Member
Mar 8, 2012
793
Independence, Ohio
JohnMarcson said:
It also needs to be shut off on scene.

Pretty sure as far as Ohio goes, you can only have white flashing lights to the front while in motion. once parked they should be steady as scene lights or shut off all together. forward facing white lights that is.
 

JohnMarcson

Administrator
May 7, 2010
10,989
Northwest Ohio
Kd8bao said:
Pretty sure as far as Ohio goes, you can only have white flashing lights to the front while in motion. once parked they should be steady as scene lights or shut off all together. forward facing white lights that is.

You are partially correct.... In Ohio there is a law that forbids white light to the rear of a motor vehicle, except emergency vehicles. Ohio fire depts do loosely subscribe to NFPA so there is that angle too, although many have clear to the rear. Ohio's emergency vehicle light laws require very little actually. Most regulation above that is department based. Almost every light based law in the Ohio vehicle code starts with something to the effect of "Except emergency and safety vehicles when engaged in official duties..."


Ohio State Patrol cars have white to the rear in their reverse lights and ODOT often has white to the rear too.


So yeah, white light to the rear is forbidden on regular vehicles, tolerated on service vehicles and allowed on emergency vehicles in Ohio.



For further info check the Lawriter - ORC official source for full text of the Ohio Revise Code (searchable) or our state laws thread.


http://elightbars.org/forums/f13/official-location-based-warning-hide-away-leds-general-meaning-discussion-thread-30732/
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
FatherOfFour said:
My only thought on that is they could very well blind you. Think about driving in heavy for w/ your high beams on, the light reflects off the fog and blinds you. I would think that in that situation forward facing white would just "bounce" off the fog and blind you. The school buses (around here at least) have the white beacon on top of the bus where it doesn't affect the driver's vision, and because it's SOOOO high off the road compared to a normal vehicle it's not flashing directly into any other driver's face.....

To continue John's post, the point of a white strobe on a school bus is the same point as the yellow paint job: It simply calls attention to the vehicle, without the need to communicate any message. If there is any message it conveys, it's simply "I am here." There's no need to tell people to drive with added caution or yield right-of-way. The buses have other lights to convey a different message when needed.
 

Flashguy

Member
Jan 4, 2011
842
United States, Florida
I had a guy in front of me tonight with a broken tail light housing. Everytime he hit the brakes I got blinded. Kinda proves the whole no white to the rear argument...and that was halogen!
 

Sigma Safety

Member
May 21, 2010
766
western Canada
nerdly_dood said:
To continue John's post, the point of a white strobe on a school bus is the same point as the yellow paint job: It simply calls attention to the vehicle, without the need to communicate any message. If there is any message it conveys, it's simply "I am here." There's no need to tell people to drive with added caution or yield right-of-way. The buses have other lights to convey a different message when needed.

Is there a particular reason that they wouldn't use an amber beacon in this scenario? Amber being the universal "hazard" colour, and white being the "what the....?" colour.
 

Solvarex

Member
Jun 2, 2010
561
Canada
Doug said:
Different animal - the takedowns are designed primarily as illumination devices, and do extra duty when flashing. Nonetheless, I bet that has some AWESOME light output!
Yep, I put pics in the thread.


I tried using just a single pair as flashing with the response mode but even in the daytime they were too blinding. If I used all four I suspect there would be a mysterious surge in MVA calls along whichever route I took...
 

nerdly_dood

Member
Jun 15, 2010
2,312
Georgia
leftcoastmark said:
Is there a particular reason that they wouldn't use an amber beacon in this scenario? Amber being the universal "hazard" colour, and white being the "what the....?" colour.

Amber lights indicate a hazard, but with a school bus, there's no more hazard than there is with any other bus - just worse seats and more ground clearance. Unless it's driving on the Interstate at least - here they recently changed the governors to allow a top speed of 60 MPH, and a year or two after that raised the speed limits on interstates from 65 to 70. :crazy: In that case an amber light would be great just because they're so slow.


School buses are the only vehicles with a single white light here anyway, and they've been using the light for long enough now (a little more than 10 years) that I'd expect they accomplish the same thing as the distinctive yellow color.
 

DJIceman97

Member
Dec 22, 2012
357
Northeast Kentucky
nerdly_dood said:
IMO white lights should be used very sparingly to call attention to the colored lights, if they aren't noticed first. White lights very easily overpower other colors, without communicating any message at all. Red or blue lights mean "I need to get somewhere right now, I'll get there quicker if you aren't in my way." Amber lights mean "Big mess over here, try not to run into it." White lights mean "AAAAAAAAAAAA!"



Sorry, I had to. :D
 

Doug

Member
May 23, 2010
1,151
Maryland
nerdly_dood said:
Amber lights indicate a hazard, but with a school bus, there's no more hazard than there is with any other bus - just worse seats and more ground clearance. Unless it's driving on the Interstate at least - here they recently changed the governors to allow a top speed of 60 MPH, and a year or two after that raised the speed limits on interstates from 65 to 70. :crazy: In that case an amber light would be great just because they're so slow.

Honestly, I think that would be the prefect application of the OEM hazard lights - a (very) slow moving vehicle can present a road hazard...
 

HILO

Member
May 20, 2010
2,781
Grand Prairie Texas
Clear/white lighting is useful in specific applications, such as distance ROW, and intersection ROW. A bit of clear strobe or LED to the rear, ie; HAW strobe or LED in the reverse lights, is a nice attention grabber. Strobe and LED in clear tend to come off with a hint of blue, and blue being the best color to penetrate fog and rain is perfect for blocking. The small application of HAW's give just enough pop, but not so much as to be blinding. To the front, to much clear washes out the emergency color. Running with take downs on (or other steady clear) next to red or blue will drown out the color. Dallas Police have a policy against running code with TD's and Alley lights on, and you fail PVOC if you run the course with them on. Years ago, a motorist refused to stop for a DPD car (equipped with a StreetHawk) for almost 10 miles. The news even got set up and had great video from an overpass. Once stopped, the motorist claimed that she did not know it was a Police car, and thought it was some guy in a pick up with flood lights. The Officer had his TD's and spot light on, and had turned the TD's on with the r/b's. She was charged with fleeing, but the case was dismissed when her lawyer played the video from the news. The video showed her car, and a large blob of white light behind her, with no signs of red or blue light. She also claimed that she could not hear the siren due to her windows being up and driving at highway speeds. She took the 70 in a 55 ticket and went on with life.


In a FD setting HLF's and clear lights reflect the smoke, haze, and mist at fire scenes, blinding or reducing visibility, which is the primary reason NFPA went with the white shut of in park standard.


When I was in traffic control, my last vehicle was a 2000 Explorer, I had HAW strobes in a X pattern set in the amber turn signals and back up lights. Very effective.
 

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